HOWDAH Pistols for stopping the charge

EDELWEISS

AH enthusiast
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
316
Reaction score
299
Location
MARYLAND
Media
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
US, Canada, Middle East(does that count)
I sorta Hijacked the Backwoods Carry Gun thread with my insistences about a Howdah pistol for stopping an attack. So to clarify a Howdah Pistol got its name from the "saddle" mounted on the back of an Indian Elephant, where hunters sat while hunting Tigers. The Bengal Tiger is the largest of the Cats. It seems they quite often take exception to being hunted and often will show their displeasure by climbing up the elephant's side to get the hunter.

The Howdah Pistol began in the percussion age (Maybe flintlock but I am dubious), and reached its zenith during the side hammer cartridge period. Typically they were SxS's although O/U's do exist. Most were double barrels but some had four barrels. They fired LARGE round balls or conicals, of at least 40 caliber but typically much larger 50 and 577 were more the norm. Quite a few started as shotguns and stayed that way firing slugs.

Many of them began as Shotguns that were shortened and modified with a handgun grip, Later guns were purpose built as handguns. Generally speaking they werent holster guns, although that was possible. Most originals show a lanyard loop on the butt and were meant to be hung on the sides of the Howdah "chair" for quick access. The pistol format was chosen because it was easier to maneuver than a rifle at close range (read that arms length), during the the general chaos of the climbing Tiger and the disturbed elephant.

We are here now because Ive made a pursuit of Howdah pistols over that last few years. So far Ive found one original, a few double barreled pistols that definitely arent Howdah's but were sold as such. As well as a few reproductions. Pedersoli is responsible for the reproductions. They make a flintlock and percussion guns with 58 as well as 20 ga barrels. They also make several versions of 45Colt/410 guns with and without hammers.

I like the Pedersoli caplock; but the 45/410 guns are hardly what I would call a Howdah. Im sure they chose 45Colt because of its ability to also be chambered for 410 shot shells. Neither 45Colt nor especially 410 shot gun rounds are anywhere near a REAL Howdah cartridge. I would have much preferred 45-70 or larger. Using 45-70 Cowboy loads would have been possible. Heck one of the 50 caliber pistol rounds would have worked too. Were it not for NFA rules a 20 or 16 gauge SxS or O/U shotgun with 8-10 inch barrels and a pistol grip would be easy and near perfect.

Modern options are limited American Gun Company makes the Diablo Its a SxS In-Line muzzleloader that uses 209 primers. It has a single trigger and single hammer with a switch/lever to change barrels. Its available with 6, 8, and 11 inch barrels. My biggest grip is the grip. Its more "Gangsta" than Howdah. The only other options are from Bond Arms. They make a 6 inch barrel for their two shot derringers but again only in 45Colt/410. They also make a single shot 45-70 that they call Cyclops. Its also available in 50AE. The Cyclops is more gimmick than Howdah. Perhaps if they made it with TWO shots and a longer barrel ....
 
Last edited:
1712616159772.png
Pedersoli Cap Lock
1712616017942.png

ORIGINAL 577 Snider Howdah


1712616236811.png

AGC Diablo

1712616625562.png

Pedersoli Howdah 45Colt/410 "Alaskan" model
 

Attachments

  • 1712615952838.png
    1712615952838.png
    368.4 KB · Views: 31
  • 1712616118762.png
    1712616118762.png
    516.9 KB · Views: 36
Last edited:
So whats it for Today??? I have carried both the Cap Lock Pedersoli and the 45/410. They arent exactly concealable in a Tee Shirt, but it cooler weather.....? On a more practical level they can be carried while hunting or hiking in Bear country. The Diablo being smaller (6" Barrel) is a bit easier to carry in a crossdraw holster
 
Last edited:
There was a pair of Howdah pistols in Holts last auction in the U.K. They were magnificent, estimated at £5-7000, Bill Harriman reviewed them .
The catalogue had a very good write up of the original owner, quite a character.
 
There was a pair of Howdah pistols in Holts last auction in the U.K. They were magnificent, estimated at £5-7000, Bill Harriman reviewed them .
The catalogue had a very good write up of the original owner, quite a character.
The ones I like best are the ones that show the most wear. Those are the ones that have the best stories to tell. I was showing my 375 H&H and 470 DR to a 20 something buddy who thinks wood stocks are out dated. He pointed out the scratches and nicks. I said they were all memories, kinda like when your 3 year old daughter draws you a picture and you hang it on the refrigerator.
 
Everyone should keep a brace of Howdah handguns handy for the next charging beast. This one is a half century earlier and not so fine as the Snider pictures by @EDELWEISS . It is an 1840's era gun with Belgian proofs. Note the grip loop so it could be hung with its mate from - well, a Howdah. The modern Pedersoli follows it fairly closely. This one is smooth bore with around a .54 bore.

Howdah Pistol
 
Last edited:
My other is English built and dates from the same period. It is a .50 bore and lacks the loop at the base of the grip. Instead it has a screw lid recess for extra percussion nipples. It would have also made a fine carriage or travel handgun.

Howdah3.jpg


Man stoppers of the period were also quite large bore. This high quality flintlock is one of my favorites. It has a brass "cannon" barrel, is English made, has a hammer safety, and dates to the turn of the 18th century. It is approximately .50 cal. Look closely and you will note that it is also equipped with a spring loaded bayonet for when one shot simply won't do. :cool:
Flintlock.jpg
 
I really wish somebody would make something more "correct". The Pedersoli 45/410 is a good foundation. If it was 45-70, that would be cool, something in 50 caliber, like 50-70 or a BP load of 500 S&W, or even 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh. Something at least 50 caliber would be best; but something "available" and bigger/more powerful that 45Colt is best.

Im leaning toward 45-70 as it has the power and availability requirements

Thoughts?
 
View attachment 598201 Pedersoli Cap Lock
View attachment 598198
ORIGINAL 577 Snider Howdah


View attachment 598202
AGC Diablo

View attachment 598203
Pedersoli Howdah 45Colt/410 "Alaskan" model
That Pedersoli Alaskan is actually pretty cool, barrels are way too long 6-8in is the way to go, saying this that Alaskan would be way better with a Butt stock & 18-20in barrels maybe even in 45/70 ?

If building one up I would go with the .577 Snider, it is just at the right size for the job, 16Bore seems to be the next most popular in the "Real" Howdah pistols not some type of "Traveler's" pistol that auction houses call Howdah's now days as it adds value .

From what I have seen 12Bore Howdah's seem to be found rarely & in the shorter length cartridges if so.

I even bought a Hammered underlevered Cape gun to make into a Howdah but it turned out to be too good to hack up, the trouble is near all under lever shotguns seem to be straight gripped, so straight locked & don't suit a Howdah & really the locks are too big even if it does have a curved lock & grip, you really need the much smaller pistol lock .

I think the story's of cut down Double Rifles to Howdah pistols are just that, Tall Story's told by writers who know nothing but sounds like it could be true.
 
I'd be alright with 20 guage. I think someone still makes brass cases in 20 guage too. Of course the .577 is ideal. I'm not opposed to 50-70 either.
 
Im not so sure cut down doubles isnt correct. Im sure the best howdahs were purpose built from scratch; but I suspect many Howdahs were made from rifles and shotguns. If for no other reason than pure economics. Today we look at Howdahs with the passion of history; but my speculation is that "back in the day", they were simply working tools and with a minor role. Few hunters would have wanted to invest the cost of a fine rifle on a pistol of set of pistols for something they likely didnt expect or want to admit they would really need.

The Howdahs we see today are typically in very nice condition because they were rarely, if ever used, or likely even carried out of the case. Look at the average PH's rifle; they are carried/used everyday by a guy who isnt exactly rich. Ive seen some pretty beat up looking guns belonging to PHs BUT every one was in excellent working condition. Many of todays finest DR builders have a PH model with only a basic grade and finish. Flash back 150 years, and even though it was the wealthy who were doing the tiger hunts, there were also Army Officers who werent always buying the finest grades (hence the Army Navy Stores). So consider a gunsmith that builds a Howdah from available rifles or shotguns. Not all that long ago it wasnt uncommon to find nicely done double rifle made from shotguns. Butch Searcy got his start doing just that, and there were many others just like him.
 
As for 20, 16, or 12 ga size guns being used and being the foundation for builds; lets consider that 16ga guns used to be much more popular that they are today. being more popular for shotguns, a similar size as a basis for a Howdah doesnt seem to far of a reach. Likewise as a 20ga is roughly 62 caliber something in 577 seems possible???
 
Barrel length Hmmmmm? For ME its all about balance and feel (OK and the way it looks). I have a full size Pedersoli muzzleloader, which I think has 11 in barrels. I also have another that I had cut to 8 inches. The fullsize "looks" classic; but the shorter one carries better. I also have the 45/410 Alaskan.

I chose the Alaskan over the other 45/410 models because it was the only version available when i had the cash to spend; but also because I like the Alaskan grip better than the "saw handle" grips on the other models. At the time, I hadnt realized how many Howdahs actually did have saw handle grips.

Just like with modern handguns, "shootability" is a factor of how the gun feels and fits in your hand AND how it is to be used. Picture the grip angle of a Luger vs a 1911 vs Glock vs Single action revolvers and DA revolvers. All have different shapes and angles. A Howdah that is to be carried hanging from a loop dangling from a hook on a saddle can be shaped differently from one meant to be carried in a belt holster AND is it intended to be carried Strong side of Crossdraw. Strong side carry/draw requires more of a 90ish degree angle, where more angle is possible with a crossdraw carry. Is it a gun that is "aimed" or snap shot from the hip? Aimed shots are easier with a Luger/1911ish grip, whereas Hip shots are more tolerant of a grip with less angle.

Soooooo long answer for a "It Depends" answer.....
 
It would actually be quite easy to take a old small framed 16ga shotgun with pitted barrels and Mono block it for 577 snider or 45-70 or 57-70. As long as the action is strong enough...tight, double chopper lumped and greener cross bolt. It may have to be a NFA item, I would have to look at the regs for converting a antique black powder cartridge shotgun into a blackpowder pistol. But doing it is pretty straightforward.
 
Im talking to a gunsmith about doing some work of the Pedersoli Alaskan. First I want to "blue" it.. Im sure the hard chrome is good for the costal conditions of Alaska; but I really doubt its ever going to be used as a Howdah in Alaska, at least not in 45Colt. Im thinking about just having the barrels "blued" (Ceracoat) and leaving the receiver "silver". I kinda like the two tone, although Im not sure about the historically accuracy, (or if that matters). My thinking about just doing the barrels is because it is a simple job, as oppose to completely stripping the frame.

What I know at this point is that it will handle 45 Colt with no recommendations about only using certain loads. It will also shoot 3" 410 shot shells; but they are even lower power than 45 Colt. I have Full length brass shells loaded with slugs (Russian made). Ive tried to load bullets in the 410 shells; but havent found any size that will work. I had some 45 Colt brass made that is 3" long, thinking that I could load 45 Colt bullets; but theres too much taper to fit the 410 shell.

I havent tried 454 Casull. Im not sure if they will fit OR if the gun can handle the extra pressure. Ive been comparing specs of 45 Colt vs 45-70. Assuming the gun can handle the load, then theres the issue of 45-70 having a larger and thicker rim. Sooo assuming its possible, 454 Casul seems the simplest "upgrade" AND is it really worth the effort?

I toyed with the idea of 450 Bushmaster. Its a rebated rim and that means extractor modification, again assuming the Pedersoli can handle it. I do think 450 Bushmaster has the power that is needed for a Howdah, if not the rim

Suggestions?
 
There was a pair of Howdah pistols in Holts last auction in the U.K. They were magnificent, estimated at £5-7000, Bill Harriman reviewed them .
The catalogue had a very good write up of the original owner, quite a character.
I understand that these were bought back by the original family whose ancestor commissioned them. For any folks that are interested here is the auction listing. Hopefully you will be able to read the description as he was definitely a character and potentially the source of the phrase “painting the town red” !

IMG_3263.jpeg
IMG_3262.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.460 S&W maybe?
I'll look into it. What a great idea!

I was so focused on 500SW, that 460 didnt occur to me. The factory load is probably waaaay to hot but Im sure a reduced load, maybe even a BP (or BP substitute) would work, and at least the case is long enough to "look" bigger than 45 Colt.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
54,375
Messages
1,152,720
Members
94,041
Latest member
wsaacjqa
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Roan hunt of a life time !

IHC-KB5 wrote on Huvius's profile.
Thanks for catching the Flanged brass - much appreciated!
new updates !


SETH RINGER wrote on RR 314's profile.
HOW MUCH ARE THEY?? PLAIN? CAMO? THX, SETH
USN
Please a prayer request due to Michael Sipple being mauled by a Cape buffalo.

Bayly Sipple Safaris on FB for company statement.
 
Top