Hammer vs CEB real world experiences

[375er]

Hello all,
Looking to see who has used either or both of these bullets brands to take game and your impressions? Not the solids bit the fragmenting ones.

Thanks!

 

[Pheroze]

I used CEB Maximus on my last hunt. 180 gr Maximus out of a 308 Norma Mag. They performed brilliantly on everything from vaal Rhebuck to Eland. All were one shot. All had good wound channels. The fact that it opened perfectly on animals as small as a Vaalie and went through an Eland impressed me. Very accurate too. I have never used Hammer so I cannot compare.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I have only used Cutting Edge 325 grain brass solids, in a .45-70. I have been very impressed.

Mature cow buffalo #1 - frontal shot; stopped at the back of a hindquarter.
Mature cow buffalo #2 - broadside shot behind the shoulder; stopped in the skin, far side.
Bull black wildebeest - frontal shot, traveled the length of the body, exited.
Large warthog - broadside, didn't slow down going through, incredible blood trail (short).

 

[375er]

Thanks for that! Did you think there was excessive damage if you were hunting for meat?

 

[Pheroze]

Thanks for that! Did you think there was excessive damage if you were hunting for meat?

Not that I recall. If anything the external hole looked more like a punch hole. The internal damage seemed worse but controlled, if that makes sense. Wide but not explosive.

 

[375er]

Not that I recall. If anything the external hole looked more like a punch hole. The internal damage seemed worse but controlled, if that makes sense. Wide but not explosive.

That is what I was hoping to hear! Thank You!

 

[62flint]

With CEB make sure you start load development way on the low end of the charts. I tried some 180gr in a 300wm, they pressured up way faster than 180gr ttsx.

 

[DLSJR]

i shot a buffalo in the Selous in August with a couple .416 370 grain raptors. They performed well, buffalo died quickly. Found the solid shank portion of both bullets but none of the petals. I also shot a hippo with a 400 grain cutting edge solid. I was very impressed with the performance of the solid!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

As many of you know, Buffalo Bore Ammunition now offers .600 Nitro Express factory loaded cartridges (loaded with 900Gr Cutting Edge Bullets monolithic brass Safari Solids & 900Gr Hammer Semi Spitzer monolithic brass expanding bullets).

My friend, African white hunter Mark Sullivan had taken out the owner of Buffalo Bore Ammunition to Tanzania on safari last year before Buffalo Bore actually started commercially offering the .600 Nitro Express ammunition. So that they could field test the various experimental loadings and determine what the best bullets are for them to load their .600 Nitro Express ammunition with.

They determined that Cutting Edge Bullets Raptor 825Gr monolithic brass expanding bullets were being a little difficult to regulate to the same point of impact as the Cutting Edge Bullets 900Gr monolithic brass Safari Solids. But the 900Gr Hammer Semi Spitzer monolithic brass expanding bullets were regulating just fine. So they opted for Hammer as their expanding bullet of choice in their .600 Nitro Express factory load.

Of course, this occurred only because Cutting Edge Bullets Raptors weigh less than their Safari Solid counterparts in the same caliber. So it’s got absolutely nothing to do with the quality of either bullet, whatsoever.

I have only heard good things about Cutting Edge Bullets Raptors from those of my friends who use them. And I’ve personally been using their 300Gr .375 cal Safari Solids for hunting hippopotamus on land in recent years. I‘m immensely impressed with what I’m seeing in the field.

 

[Tgood1]

I've used the ceb raptors about 3 years in a 7x57, fantastic results. Have some to load in a .308 now.

 

[Tanks]

Search for posts by @michael458 in regard to CEB bullet data and results.

 

[michael458]

Hello all,
Looking to see who has used either or both of these bullets brands to take game and your impressions? Not the solids bit the fragmenting ones.

Thanks!

Hammers vs Raptors............

Yeah, but not really.......... I have tested nearly every Raptor ever made, and in the beginning many tweaks to blade thickness and what have you needed to be made to get them where they are today. I have not only tested, but have shot several 100 head of game with various calibers/cartridges, from impala to buffalo. In addition to what I have taken, I have seen several more 100 animals taken as well.

I have never used a Hammer in the field, but have tested them here. Hammers and CEB Maximus work in the same manner and same behavior in test work and in the field as well. Before there was Raptors, I worked with Lehigh, through JD Jones designing some of their copper HP bullets for my various .500 caliber rifles. The Lehigh Copper bullets behave the same as the Hammers and CEB Maximus as well. This type bullet is also extremely effective, and will out perform both in trauma inflicted, destruction of tissue, and in depth of penetration any conventional premium expanding bullet available.

I consider the Hammer, CEB Maximus, Lehigh and other similar Copper bullets in this league as Generation 1 CNC bullets. They all behave in the following manner....... At the beginning of terminal penetration in any aqueous material, test medium or animal tissue, the Blades/Petals start to break away from the center bullet, in most cases close to the same time. With these type Gen 1 bullets, the blades/petals DO NOT radiate from center wound channel, they travel along with the center bullet, which is now a full wadcutter type solid. These blades are doing tremendous damage slicing and dicing tissues closer to wound channel, and will travel 8-10 inches along with center bullet. Remaining center bullet is a full diameter solid now, and will continue to penetrate deep and straight, always deeper than any comparable conventional bullet.

Raptors are mostly brass, but CEB has been very successful with several different copper Raptors, by cutting slits the length of the blades, and the copper Raptors behave exactly like the Brass Raptors. In Terminal Performance, Once the Raptor has penetrated to 1.5-2 inches in any aqueous medium, test medium or animal tissue, the "Blades" shear all at the same time. This is an explosive type action (can be seen in videos of ballistic gel), once again for about 4-5 inches the Blades (they are blades, not petals, petals peel, blades slice and dice their way through penetration) travel close to the center bullet in a star type pattern around center, as tissue expands with the passing of the center bullet, tissue is sliced to pieces for up to 5+ inches of travel, at that point depending on the caliber and size of blades, they start to radiate AWAY from the center bullet, slicing and dicing their way through organs, vessels and other tissues as secondary projectiles. The larger the caliber, the further the blades can penetrate. The remaining center bullet continues to penetrate as it has become a broken bottle type full caliber solid. Again, penetration is extreme compared to any conventional expanding bullet, and trauma is absolutely extreme in comparison as well. One thing that is extreme with a Raptor is Blood loss, there is a tremendous amount of trauma, slicing and dicing of everything the blades come in contact with.

Which one is Better? Both are extreme to be honest, I have more experince with Raptors, so I would lean my preferences in that direction. However, the Hammers/CEB Maximus are also extreme bullets and I would not hesitate to take them to the field for any endeavor where I needed a serious Trauma inflicting bullet.

Yes I have hunted with and used successfully the best Conventional premiums available, Swift, Woodliegh, Barnes and more, and I have mined bullets out of animals for 30+ years, and tested everything there is to test for that period as well. While good, a Conventional Premium cannot compete with these Generation 1 and II CNC bullets, either in trauma or penetration.

They determined that Cutting Edge Bullets Raptor 825Gr monolithic brass expanding bullets were being a little difficult to regulate to the same point of impact as the Cutting Edge Bullets 900Gr monolithic brass Safari Solids.

@Hunter-Habib Probably something more related to just a double rifle being finicky than the weight factor. When the Raptors were designed, I told Dan I had a theory, that instead of trying to match the weights with solids, lets take the Solid, and put the hollow point in it, my thoughts was that being the same bullet, with the same bearing surface, that POI at 50 yards would be the same with the same load as the solid. Well, in every single caliber that has proven to now be fact, I have never seen a bolt gun, or single barrel of any kind not shoot the Raptor/Solid in the same hole at 50 yards with the same load. Raptors are lighter, so you can up the velocity some as weight equal pressure and normally this throws the Raptor slightly higher, but still center at 50 yards.

Doubles are finicky, but in the doubles we have tested here, from 470 NE, 500 NE and 577 NE, we have not seen one yet that the Raptor did not shoot with the Solids. ? I am not a doubel sort of fellow, but my close friend and test partner is a double fanatic and has 2 dozen of the things which we have shot here extensively. In addition the bands and bearing surface of the CEB Bullets were designed to give extremely low barrel strain, making them safe for all modern rifles...... I suppose that 600 just wanted to be picky.... not surprising, but an oddity and not the norm..........

The 825/900 Raptor/Solids were tested here in a 600 Over Kill, and I can tell you that 825 Raptor at 2200-2300 fps is a wicked thing.......... The solids are incredible.......... but that is about all I could handle, last day of test work I was able to fire 23 rounds on the bench and thankfully I ran out...... HEH.........

 

[michael458]

I think it was last year that some friends of mine were very interested in the 400 Hammers in .458 caliber. So we worked up a test with them and performance was incredible, trauma inflicted was great, and penetration into Buffalo Capable, which in the end I declared them so.

A couple of months later one of the guys took the 400 Hammer for buffalo, and indeed it was very successful resulting in massive trauma inflicted, exit of center bullet, and near DRT buffalo on the spot.

They were so excited about this, and it has been repeated now a few times, some of the guys wanted a matching CEB 400 gr Solid, which I managed to talk CEB into.........

My first buffalo experience with the Lehigh Genration 1 copper I was shooting a 500 MDM (.500 caliber) and a 470 gr Lehigh Copper Hollow Point at 2500 fps. Well, still believing that SD actually meant something, I was convinced that I did not have enough bullet for buffalo, even though my test work previously had proven that it was indeed buffalo capable. ???? Well, all that changed after that first shot on buffalo about 25-30 steps, buffalo hit hard, turned 180 degrees, could not run, stood and quivered as I put a solid in him and it was over....... Massive trauma inflicted, and exits of center bullet........... no I had plenty of bullet, regardless of SD............. Conventional Wisdom "Does Not Apply".................. Not with these type bullet and not with new Solid Bullet Tech.................

Hammer, Raptor, Maximus............... Go forth and Feel Confident.........

 

[NTX]

I’ve killed 3 zebra, 2 oryx, blue wildebeest, and impala with the 130 gr CEB Raptor from a .300 wsm. Shock and trauma were excellent but penetration was definitely lacking on the zebra.

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[RLL]

Lots of pigs, varmints, plains game, buff…from .224, .284, .308, .375, .416, .458…all with CEB Raptors and Hammers. Excellent terminal performance. Both bullets are easy to load for and produce outstanding accuracy in all rifles ive seen with little effort. I’m a convert after working with these the last 5 years.

Hammers like to be pushed faster than conventional thinking and can do so safely if you pay attention. I worked a load for my buddies 7mag for Africa last year…160SH at 3200fps…devastating from Kudu on down. Another buddy took a buff with .375 Ruger load 275gr Raptor at 2700fps…only 1 shot required for both.

After shooting a lot of these and measuring ballistic data. The hammers/maximus will maintain a better b.c and energy at further distances than the hollow point raptor. And they can be pushed harder…this may be a factor if you want one load for safari that may need to be used to further distances.

The raptor with the tip installed mostly equals hammer/maximus at distance but not exactly.

If all shooting is under 100, I tend to lean towards the HP Raptor but you can’t go wrong with either, I haven’t gone after game in a few years without CEB or Hammers in the action or on my belt…my 2cents

 

[michael458]

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Cool video! Thanks for sharing - and CROC is on my list; in fact, I just asked an outfitter about crocodile the other day.

Nit-picky point, and this is not going to win me any friends - I get that. But it's how my brain is wired. I am continually amazed at some things that are misspelled, in this case "crock" for crocodile - in a professionally made video no less. Had he actually shot a "crock" he would have been posing with something like this, or at least the remaining shards after the Cutting Edge bullet destroyed it.

 

[michael458]

in a professionally made video no less. Had he actually shot a "crock" he would

What a "Crock"......... HEH HEH......... very excellent..........

This is a "Zebra"......... God I hope I spelled that right......... LOL.............Some years ago I had requested a 250 gr Raptor in .458 caliber from Dan, it actually turned out to be a really good bullet, its a Lever Raptor, but can be seated deep for bolt guns, and add a Talon Tip. At the same time Dan had developed a 250 Socom Raptor (which I prefer) and I tested both in Africa on plains game and even took a cow buffalo with one, and by situational demands, I took a hippo as well....... regardless the bullet really showed off on everything. I had also loaded some of these for some friends that had 458 B&M rifles, they used them on a hunt, and Beau captured this zebra on video. this is a 250 Lever Raptor in 458 B&M at 2950 fps............ and it was typical of everything I took when they were first designed...........

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I have taken 11 plains game with the 150 Power Hammer bullet in my 30.06 at 2900 fps and only 2 were recovered the rest passed thru the animals. took a cape buff with the 404 Shock Hammer bullet in my 458 at 2460fps slight right quartering thru left should and complete pass thru. I am sold on Hammer Bullets and they are always in stock

 

[michael458]

@Hyde Hunter you would not happen to be familiar with our very good Friend Ron perhaps?

Anything tested that can make 19" + is Buffalo Capable.........................