Billed after a safari question

[Graham Hunter]

On any of my hunts it was simple. You draw blood on an animal, found or lost you pay for it. Full payments made at the end of the hunt.

 

[grand veneur]

I understand what you're saying, but it just seems to subjective. I've hit, killed and retrieved game that didn't in the least act like they were hit, but most certainly were.

I've also been on hunts where it appeared due to the animal's reaction, it was hit. But only to never find blood or any other evidence including a dead animal to support that.

So I don't see it as an issue of relying on anyone's word or trusting one over another. Certainly it's possible relying only on blood that a true hit results in no charge when there should be one, but it also prevents true misses being wrongly charged.

That's right, I have also shot animals that ran away without reacting of the shot and lay dead a few meters away. That also depends on the caliber and the bullet but is a different topic. That's why I wrote that this assessment is, despite everything, associated with uncertainty, but in this case we don't know how the PH judged everything. After all, he spent 2 hours for looking for the game.

It is difficult to judge this case without knowing how the PH assessed the situation and what was agreed between him and the clients after the hunt.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I would ask the payer/client if they got a detailed receipt? Except on cull hunts, I always got one with an itemized list of animals taken with price. A day before departure was settlement where any discrepancies could arise. Fortunately, I hunted with two savvy businessmen who always gave me free animals. Having said that, if BOTH the PH and tracker couldn't find the animal and it wasn't discussed or on the receipt when it came time to settle up, payment would be declined. As far as trophies being withheld, that opens up another can of worms.

 

[Frederik]

How much beer was in the cooler?
Mountain Zebra in Zimbabwe???

I would not pay for the zebra but hope that he will not be using it as an excuse not to send the other trophies of the hunt.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

At the end of the safari there is a protocol for the settlement, signed by both sides.
If this zebra is not listed, it will not be charged.
It could be a mistake or you are just trying something and hoping the client is stupid enough.

Exactly! Everything is settled up at my lodge either the night before I leave or the morning of departure. Don't be afraid to drop names re this bullshit. This outfit needs to be taught a lesson.

My second safari trip I had trouble with my credit card the evening of settling accounts. Man, I was frantic! There was a buffalo bull on the bill with a pile of plains game. Brian said don't worry about it. Get it sorted out when I get home. Can you believe that? Fortunately, I was able to reach my bank's manager just as he was closing up for the day. He fixed it. Last trip I asked Brian how much he wanted down when I booked. "Just bring a couple grand in cash when you arrive." And some guys on here can't understand why I keep hunting with the same outfitter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I suggest sending a link to this thread to the outfitter. I bet THAT will get a response!

I cannot give the PH the benefit of ANY doubt. The animal was obviously determined to be missed at settlement of account before leaving the lodge if it wasn't paid for then. This is a blackmail job holding onto the trophies. Tell that guy to release the trophies or he can watch his lodge's name light up the internet.

 

[CBH Australia]

Surely everyone present was watching the shot and the animal.
What was the call immediately after the shot? Did the PH see the impact? Did anyone hear the report?.

Requesting payment long after the settlement and departure is pushing the boundaries.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

This whole story sounds fishy from beginning to end. A mountain zebra in Zimbabwe? Zimbabwe is bush country, and Zebra habitat is bushy - it would be unusual to even get a 350 yard shot. Certainly, it would be very easy to close the distance if you did spot a zebra way off. Do you think that a PH who is willing to put in a 2 hour search for the animal wouldn’t be willing to put in 30 minutes to get closer before shooting? I call BS on this story.

 

[BRICKBURN]

How much beer was in the cooler?
Mountain Zebra in Zimbabwe???

I would not pay for the zebra but hope that he will not be using it as an excuse not to send the other trophies of the hunt.

That would buy them a whole bunch of very bad advertising!

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Exactly! Everything is settled up at my lodge either the night before I leave or the morning of departure. Don't be afraid to drop names re this bullshit. This outfit needs to be taught a lesson.

My second safari trip I had trouble with my credit card the evening of settling accounts. Man, I was frantic! There was a buffalo bull on the bill with a pile of plains game. Brian said don't worry about it. Get it sorted out when I get home. Can you believe that? Fortunately, I was able to reach my bank's manager just as he was closing up for the day. He fixed it. Last trip I asked Brian how much he wanted down when I booked. "Just bring a couple grand in cash when you arrive." And some guys on here can't understand why I keep hunting with the same outfitter.

sounds pretty std to me, i have most clients pay once they are home after the safari

 

[sestoppelman]

There has to be a definitive criteria for what constitutes a wounded animal. The only way to be sure is a dead animal or blood, even a clump of hair perhaps, tissue etc.
If none of that was found after 2 hours, and the search called off, its a miss, period.
Trying to collect later on what was understood to be a miss is just lame and if he they try to withhold trophies over it a call to the PH association is in order.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Unfortunately, the original post was made by a person (no disrespect intended) who wasn't present. Being third hand, it's possible that some of the details: species; location; what was agreed etc, aren't as accurate as they could be. It would be good if either the husband or wife directly involved could give their story. I know I wouldn't be happy getting a bill months after I returned home, but maybe we don't have the full facts.

 

[CBH Australia]

This whole story sounds fishy from beginning to end. A mountain zebra in Zimbabwe? Zimbabwe is bush country, and Zebra habitat is bushy - it would be unusual to even get a 350 yard shot. Certainly, it would be very easy to close the distance if you did spot a zebra way off. Do you think that a PH who is willing to put in a 2 hour search for the animal wouldn’t be willing to put in 30 minutes to get closer before shooting? I call BS on this story.

Unfortunately, the original post was made by a person (no disrespect intended) who wasn't present. Being third hand, it's possible that some of the details: species; location; what was agreed etc, aren't as accurate as they could be. It would be good if either the husband or wife directly involved could give their story. I know I wouldn't be happy getting a bill months after I returned home, but maybe we don't have the full facts.

I was about to reply to Kevin with similar.

I didn't pick up the detail in the post that he did but I'm not familiar with the area and species.

No offence to Kevin calling BS, he's a straight shooter. He's local with local knowledge.

But, we are getting a third party version here.

I did consider that a dead Zebra with an obvious bullet wound may have been found sometime later but even then I'm sure it's not right to determine that it was that hunter who is responsible. That's only based on the assumption they may have found it later and decided to invoice the hunter who had taken a shot at 350m in that area 2 months earlier.

 

[GreenT]

I've been looking at Argentinian outfitters and some of their policies explicitly state that the determination of an animal being hit/ wounded is "at the discretion of the guide".
I'd say, if it wasn't a hit at the time then it's not going to become retroactively wounded two months later!

 

[CBH Australia]

I've been looking at Argentinian outfitters and some of their policies explicitly state that the determination of an animal being hit/ wounded is "at the discretion of the guide".
I'd say, if it wasn't a hit at the time then it's not going to become retroactively wounded two months later!

Sounds legit. Yes at the discretion of the guide but they can't just make it up. In the event of something not being recovered I'm sure that some searching and discussion take place as opposed to a bill being sent retrospectively for an animal that was not found at the time.
Surely a determination is made with all parties present.

 

[grand veneur]

As some have already written, it would be better to listen to the story from the point of view of all participants.

As far as payment is concerned, many Europeans and including me, book their hunts through agents in our countries. We are under contract with these companies and it is not unusual for some things, especially the hunting fees, to be invoiced months after the hunt and then to transfer the money to the agent and not directly to the outfitter. The advantage of this method is that you don't have to carry large amounts of cash with you. It is not always very clear what you still have to pay after the hunt, but I have never experienced any bad surprises like that of this post.

 

[PeteG]

If its not a clear hit and there was no proof of blood.
The clients should not be billed.

 

[318AE]

This whole story sounds fishy from beginning to end. A mountain zebra in Zimbabwe? Zimbabwe is bush country, and Zebra habitat is bushy - it would be unusual to even get a 350 yard shot. Certainly, it would be very easy to close the distance if you did spot a zebra way off. Do you think that a PH who is willing to put in a 2 hour search for the animal wouldn’t be willing to put in 30 minutes to get closer before shooting? I call BS on this story.

Agree. I would not be surprised if this is a free lance PH hunting on private property in Namibia. Sounds to me like the property owner found a dead zebra carcass a few months later and billed the PH/safari operator, who in turn billed the client. Sounds sloppy all around - a stalk/shot beyond the limits of the client, poor search for the wounded animal, “passing the buck” bill after the hunt.

 

[ActionBob]

Exactly! Everything is settled up at my lodge either the night before I leave or the morning of departure. Don't be afraid to drop names re this bullshit. This outfit needs to be taught a lesson.

My second safari trip I had trouble with my credit card the evening of settling accounts. Man, I was frantic! There was a buffalo bull on the bill with a pile of plains game. Brian said don't worry about it. Get it sorted out when I get home. Can you believe that? Fortunately, I was able to reach my bank's manager just as he was closing up for the day. He fixed it. Last trip I asked Brian how much he wanted down when I booked. "Just bring a couple grand in cash when you arrive." And some guys on here can't understand why I keep hunting with the same outfitter.

I've always paid after I got home. Just take enough cash for tips. That was with 8 different Outfitters.

 

[fourfive8]

Agreed, nothing about that issue by itself is unusual. Several times I’ve paid some unexpected charges after returning home. But I’ve always gone with PHs and outfitters with whom I’ve developed a mutual trust. HOWEVER… I too noted the odd reference to “mountain” zebra. That by itself may provide a small red flag, a whiff. After all, mountain zebras are trendy- Burchell, Plains and Chapman not so much. …The whole story smells like the PH/outfitter was playing to the gullibility of the inexperienced- from encouraging a shot at way too long a range to using a caliber not really the best for the job no matter the range to not following up a supposedly hit animal with enough effort to possibly having the worst trackers in Africa to sending an “oh, by the way” bill well after the fact. Ugh