.470 NE Reloads and Fillers?

[ve7poi]

+1 only Ken Owen gave me a load of 80 grains of 3031 for my 500 NE…pussy cat to shoot

I’ll have to try that load

 

[soumya sarkar]

Some data from Woodleigh, just wanted to share-

We have some data for Reloder 15 and VihtuavoriN160;

470 Nitro 500 gr SN or FMJ, Federal 215 primer;

Reloder 15 87 gr 2040 with foam rubber wad

N160 103 gr 2020 fps

Hope this helps.



Regards,
Geoff McDonald
Zedfield Pty Ltd t/a Woodleigh Bullets
NSW DL 406494768
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC 3579
PH 03 5457 2226

 

[Rare Breed]

I use RL 15.5 and at 86 grains QL tells me I get 2052 FPS I use the Trader Keith #2 foam fillers. Here is my question please…how do these type fillers impact FPS? Increase? Decrease? No change? I know any filler increases PSI that QL does not account for but curious about FPS

 

[rookhawk]

I use RL 15.5 and at 86 grains QL tells me I get 2052 FPS I use the Trader Keith #2 foam fillers. Here is my question please…how do these type fillers impact FPS? Increase? Decrease? No change? I know any filler increases PSI that QL does not account for but curious about FPS

Not sure about velocities, but they effect pressures. Pressure curves effect regulation. Dacron stuffing causes the highest pressure spike, but in "normal" loads also has the most robust known-safe data from Ken Owen and Ross Seyfried.

 

[Pondoro]

Some data from Woodleigh, just wanted to share-

We have some data for Reloder 15 and VihtuavoriN160;

470 Nitro 500 gr SN or FMJ, Federal 215 primer;

Reloder 15 87 gr 2040 with foam rubber wad

N160 103 gr 2020 fps

Hope this helps.



Regards,
Geoff McDonald
Zedfield Pty Ltd t/a Woodleigh Bullets
NSW DL 406494768
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC 3579
PH 03 5457 2226

I tried these loads...I can say that N-160 produce quite a lot more felt recoil than the RL-15...in my .470 Krieghoff, without any more velocity..

 

[soumya sarkar]

How much of Rl 15 did you use and which bullet?

 

[Rare Breed]

I tried these loads...I can say that N-160 produce quite a lot more felt recoil than the RL-15...in my .470 Krieghoff, without any more velocity..

That’s why although I have several different powders, in my 470 to 500 NE I will always take the powder that gives me regulation at my desired FPS at safe PSI using the smallest number of grains. For example I choose to use 15.5 not 4831 in my 470 strictly due to so much less recoil with 15.5

 

[RockSlinger404]

Does anyone use VV N560?

It seems my rifle also likes the lower speed, I achieved my best groups at 2030fps.

 

[AimSmall]

N555 also works for me with Hornady DGX and solids from Nosler

 

[uplander01]

Why in wrights second edition does he rule out use of 3031 as not good for nitro cartridges? Based supposedly on one instance that he knew of personally where the chamber blew out the right side ?? Seems like there’s a lot of us using this powder in 470’s……any input is appreciated. My 470 shoots h4350 (94gr) and imr3031 (80 gr).

 

[rookhawk]

Why in wrights second edition does he rule out use of 3031 as not good for nitro cartridges? Based supposedly on one instance that he knew of personally where the chamber blew out the right side ?? Seems like there’s a lot of us using this powder in 470’s……any input is appreciated. My 470 shoots h4350 (94gr) and imr3031 (80 gr).

May I ask what filler you’re using for your 3031 load? That’s the hottest loading volume I’ve seen yet.

 

[uplander01]

I am using the Kynoch filler from Trader Keiths

 

[DrBob]

Why in wrights second edition does he rule out use of 3031 as not good for nitro cartridges? Based supposedly on one instance that he knew of personally where the chamber blew out the right side ?? Seems like there’s a lot of us using this powder in 470’s……any input is appreciated. My 470 shoots h4350 (94gr) and imr3031 (80 gr).

Noth only Wright but Gregor Woods from ZA's Magnum Magazine. 3031 can and has caused detonations that blew up the rifles and in one case part of a very experienced man's hand. Another good reason also pointed out by Wright is the pressure wave in the chamber that can bell a chamber. With the powder at one end of the case... the forward moving pressure wave front meets the reflected wave and both colliding creates a local pressure spike. The faster the powder and smaller the powder volume, the sharper the pressure waves.

ALL of the powder manufacturers do not recommend 3031 nor the reloading manuals. With so many newer and better propellants, why take a risk. While RL15 is used by Kynock, I have found Varget to be excellent. Also the other new temp insensitive powders.... H4350 and 4955. The newer temp insensitive powders make reloading so much better and uniform. If 3031 came in strands like cordite then have at it but even then...why? Time has passed 3031 by.

And as noted that is a stiff load of 3031. I use 81 grains of Varget with a 500 grain Woodleigh at 2050 fps and 1 inch of gray backer rod. Varget is way slower than 3031. Stay with H4350!

 

[uplander01]

Good info, thanks for the input, I'm gonig to pull some bullets,...I believe you are right not worth the risk,....I have plenty of RL15, H4350

 

[DrBob]

Good info, thanks for the input, I'm gonig to pull some bullets,...I believe you are right not worth the risk,....I have plenty of RL15, H4350

Glad you have a good load with H4350. When I first got my 470 I was at a loss for optimal reloading but when I found Wright's book things became clearer. I've put over 1000 rounds through it. Mostly cast lead but at full power which is around 2050 fps for regulation. I find the full power cast lead to be the same loading as Woodleigh softs. The cast lead are oven heated/water quenched hardened. I have pushed them to 2300 fps with no leading. With the cost of bullets, a good alternative at least for practicing. I haven't hunted with them yet but would be interesting. Also trying paper jacketing to completely remove any chance at leading. Fun stuff.

 

[rookhawk]

Noth only Wright but Gregor Woods from ZA's Magnum Magazine. 3031 can and has caused detonations that blew up the rifles and in one case part of a very experienced man's hand. Another good reason also pointed out by Wright is the pressure wave in the chamber that can bell a chamber. With the powder at one end of the case... the forward moving pressure wave front meets the reflected wave and both colliding creates a local pressure spike. The faster the powder and smaller the powder volume, the sharper the pressure waves.

ALL of the powder manufacturers do not recommend 3031 nor the reloading manuals. With so many newer and better propellants, why take a risk. While RL15 is used by Kynock, I have found Varget to be excellent. Also the other new temp insensitive powders.... H4350 and 4955. The newer temp insensitive powders make reloading so much better and uniform. If 3031 came in strands like cordite then have at it but even then...why? Time has passed 3031 by.

And as noted that is a stiff load of 3031. I use 81 grains of Varget with a 500 grain Woodleigh at 2050 fps and 1 inch of gray backer rod. Varget is way slower than 3031. Stay with H4350!

@DrBob you’ve cited your claim several times, but you’ve never published the data. I’ve searched the Internet and cannot find the data either. You’re making an incorrect inference that the loads of RL15 with various stuffings will have an identical corollary relationship with IMR3031.

As has been mentioned many times, 3031 has the lightest recoil and tends to have the same pressure spike properties as stranded cordite. The benefit is that it reproduces stresses to the barrels of a double gun in a manner similar to what was endured a century ago at the proof house.

The reason you won’t find published loads abounding is multi-faceted, but it comes down to lawyers usually. Lawyers do not like published load data that does not fill a case. This is why you see published loads for IMR4831 so frequently.

Just recently a member of this forum with a lovely 470NE ordered up some custom ammo from “the experts in custom loading”. They opted for 4831 rather than 3031, even though I recommended against it. The owner is lucky to be alive and a nice $20-something thousand dollar British double is now in the graveyard. The 4831 load was within modern pressure parameters for a 470NE, but it was definitely not a stranded cordite equivelant load at 2050fps like 3031 would be. The net result was barrel rupture halfway down the tube.

If you have the pressure data using a variety of stuffing mediums for 3031 I would appreciate seeing that rather than the RL15 data you’ve previously cited.

 

[Rare Breed]

I am using the Kynoch filler from Trader Keiths

For years I have used IMR3031 with 80 grains using Traders Keith #2 fillers with zero problems and unbelievably light recoil

 

[rookhawk]

For years I have used IMR3031 with 80 grains using Traders Keith #2 fillers with zero problems and unbelievably light recoil

Good to know. My notes from Ross Seyfried state that if using Dacron stuffing, the max load is 77-78gr of powder with 3031. The reduced pressure with the kynoch wads is what is permitting you to load more powder safely I assume.

 

[Rare Breed]

Good to know. My notes from Ross Seyfried state that if using Dacron stuffing, the max load is 77-78gr of powder with 3031. The reduced pressure with the kynoch wads is what is permitting you to load more powder safely I assume.

I would still be using it but I sold all of it to the buyer of my 1908 470 NE.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have since then moved to RL 15.5 given almost identical performance to the IMR3031 yet having exceptional high heat tolerances. This is not to imply on my trips to Africa I ever had any problems with IMR3031