416 WSM first range trip

[AZDAVE]

Good morning
A while back I picked up the 416 WSM that was listed in the classifieds. Was able to source a set of dies and took some of the 300 WSM brass I have on the shelf and formed up 50 rounds of brass. Yesterday I was just fireforming and setup a ladder using AA2230. Put the magnspeed chrono on the barrel and shot about 20 rounds.

The top load I used is still below MAX on the quickload run I did. 350gr Speers 2385FPS average speed. Should be able to get the 350's to 2400 . My goal was hoping that they would get to 2350 fps. That goal is exceeded. I am also hoping that the 400 will exceed 2150. So now that I have some fire formed brass it is time to start load development.

The rifle is a winchester M70 black shadow with the synthetic stock. It is a light rifle and would be very easy to carry all day. The recoil was about what I expected. Recoil energy 60 ft lbs recoil velocity 23 fps. A bit more than your standard 30/06 but a lot less than my 500 Jeffery I was shooting to.

 

[hoytcanon]

Interesting... I was considering mating my .358-375 Ruger with a .416 Ruger... interesting to see what you can do on the WSM case. I currently also shoot a .35 WSM, so a .416 WSM also makes sense for me. I can go with bullets on the lighter side with the .35's and on the heavier side for the .416 and have two rifles for vastly different purposes.

 

[AZDAVE]

The 416 ruger is a good round and would work as the big brother to your 35/375.

I am thinking the 416 WSM would be a fantastic AK bear round.

 

[hoytcanon]

I clearly have the winter blues... I have a donor rifle in my shop, and your project got me thinking that a .375 WSM would be cool too... particularly because I have lots of brass and bullets... before I finished my coffee, and cleared my head, I had the reamer, dies and barrel on the way! I need this like a hole in the head, but WTH, life is too short to be boring.

 

[AZDAVE]

Have fun with your new build! I have been surprise on what you can squeeze out of a 06 case with the 400 Whelen. I had a 416 express (350REM MAG necked up) and the wsm case has a lot of promise with wildcats.

 

[AZDAVE]

Good morning

Made it back out to the range and shot some of the 400's. Using AA2230 and a 400grDGS my average speed was 2145fps the highest was 2149 and lowest was 2142. Having a ES of 7 in a 8 round string will work. Went up a half grain in the 350's and average speed was 2394 with a ES of 9. Both are below max and accurate. Happy shooter here.

 

[Downandlow]

Looks like you have duplicated the 450/400 Nitro is a modern short action bolt rifle. Should make an excellent DG rifle.
Glad you shared your experience as I’m in the beginning stages of a 416 WSM build.
Just wondering how long the neck of this cartridge is and if you crimped.
I’m thinking of using 7mmWsM shoulder dimensions instead of 300.

 

[TOBY458]

@michael458 how does this compare to the 416 B&M?

 

[michael458]

@michael458 how does this compare to the 416 B&M?

Probably around 150 fps or so on average....... Dave and I had a chat about it and really, rifle in hand, hard to justify changing it..... I would not change it, go with WSM...... Now, starting from scratch, another story....... 400 gr is just not required today, and running 350s at 2350 or so, is more than enough ............ I run 350s in the B&Ms........ very very effective..............

For comparison the only WSM I actually have is a 338 WSM.........

 

[AZDAVE]

@Downandlow let me measure it and get a picture of a fireformed case. For the first couple range trips I haven't been crimping the cases as I have been single feeding the rounds.

@TOBY458 I picked this rifle up from @NTO a while back and had some 300 WSM brass on the shelf, sourced a set of dies from CH4D. I wanted to see what the differences from the 416 Express(350REM MAG necked up) That I had a few years ago. The WSM is about 150FPS faster than the 416 EXP.

As @michael458 pointed out the 458 B&M is about 150FPS faster than the WSM. If I was building a new rifle from scratch I would build a 416 B&M.

 

[TOBY458]

As @michael458 pointed out the 458 B&M is about 150FPS faster than the WSM. If I was building a new rifle from scratch I would build a 416 B&M.

I think you’re probably good to go as is. Even if you did want to shoot 400gr I’d think 2150fps is fine for most uses. Do you just neck the WSM cases up and go?

 

[TOBY458]

Probably around 150 fps or so on average....... Dave and I had a chat about it and really, rifle in hand, hard to justify changing it..... I would not change it, go with WSM...... Now, starting from scratch, another story....... 400 gr is just not required today, and running 350s at 2350 or so, is more than enough ............ I run 350s in the B&Ms........ very very effective..............

For comparison the only WSM I actually have is a 338 WSM.........

View attachment 591250

I mean…after all… 416 is mostly a light plains game rifle anyway, right? LOL!

 

[AZDAVE]

@TOBY458 It is solid performer. I have a 416 ruger and 500/416 so I have the bigger 416's covered.
This was just a neck up of a standard wsm case and fireform. I have included the case beside a 458 B&M for comparison. The B&M cases are bigger.

@Downandlow the neck is .323 long.

 

[TOBY458]

@TOBY458 It is solid performer. I have a 416 ruger and 500/416 so I have the bigger 416's covered.
This was just a neck up of a standard wsm case and fireform. I have included the case beside a 458 B&M for comparison. The B&M cases are bigger.

@Downandlow the neck is .323 long.

I was just picking at @michael458 . He has said in the past that the 416 is a proper plains game caliber. Lol!

 

[michael458]

I mean…after all… 416 is mostly a light plains game rifle anyway, right? LOL!

I love 416 caliber, not for the reasons you might think however, it is still inferior for most really large game, like buffalo and such......... However, it does the best job ever, of allowing little girls to be able to handle a cartridge/caliber that replaces the Rat Guns/cartridges of Old, and that totally 100% useless caliber of .375 ................ 416 is so much superior on the larger rat species than 375 there is just NO comparison whatsoever, and hopefully will be the Death Nail in .375 finally............ Now all you little girls out there, that worship at the alter of 375, now have a great choice to move up to.... and that is 416 caliber...................

I am thinking the 416 WSM would be a fantastic AK bear round.

And see, @AZDAVE is already ahead of the curve in planning for his new cartridge......... Indeed, this would be a great and is a great big bear caliber. What @AZDAVE might or might not know is that there is a 225 gr Raptor made in .416 caliber that is a flat out HAMMER on big bears, and has been proven several times now...........

The 225 Raptor................ 416 WSM should be able to exceed 2800 fps with this, and it will blow thru the big bears like butter, and put them in the DIRT ...................

 

[TOBY458]

I love 416 caliber, not for the reasons you might think however, it is still inferior for most really large game, like buffalo and such......... However, it does the best job ever, of allowing little girls to be able to handle a cartridge/caliber that replaces the Rat Guns/cartridges of Old, and that totally 100% useless caliber of .375 ................ 416 is so much superior on the larger rat species than 375 there is just NO comparison whatsoever, and hopefully will be the Death Nail in .375 finally............ Now all you little girls out there, that worship at the alter of 375, now have a great choice to move up to.... and that is 416 caliber...................


And see, @AZDAVE is already ahead of the curve in planning for his new cartridge......... Indeed, this would be a great and is a great big bear caliber. What @AZDAVE might or might not know is that there is a 225 gr Raptor made in .416 caliber that is a flat out HAMMER on big bears, and has been proven several times now...........

The 225 Raptor................ 416 WSM should be able to exceed 2800 fps with this, and it will blow thru the big bears like butter, and put them in the DIRT ...................

Those coastal rats up there in NC must be some monsters! My mom has always had good success with her 375 on the smaller variety we have down here in Ga. After she moved up to CEB bullets, she’s even dared to take on a vicious Armadillo that was raiding her flower bed. But she believes 100% in getting close and only taking head shots.

 

[AZDAVE]

@michael458 Funny your mention the 225 Raptor, I looked them up yesterday and was planning on asking you what you thought of them. I have almost a full box of the 180gr flat base raptors from the 416 express test. I also sent you a email on the other project we talked about.

 

[michael458]

Those coastal rats up there in NC must be some monsters! My mom has always had good success with her 375 on the smaller variety we have down here in Ga. After she moved up to CEB bullets, she’s even dared to take on a vicious Armadillo that was raiding her flower bed. But she believes 100% in getting close and only taking head shots.

If you were much worth a damn as a Son, and really wanted to look after your Mom like you should, you would trade her up to 416 caliber to keep her safe!

I will give you something however, you at least used Bullet Tech to try and help her out, and teaching head shots only, which is good.........But I still think if you really cared, you would get her a 416..........

 

[michael458]

@michael458 Funny your mention the 225 Raptor, I looked them up yesterday and was planning on asking you what you thought of them. I have almost a full box of the 180gr flat base raptors from the 416 express test. I also sent you a email on the other project we talked about.

The 225 Raptor I have used some in my 416 B&Ms, I even shot Aussie buffalo with it and it would exit broadside and do just as good as any 416 can on big bovine. I think 416 is a little light for bovine however. Other species such as plains game, bear, lion and such, it is an absolutely devastating bullet. It is my go to bullet for everything that you would use a 416 for less than the heavies............
One of our B&M guys slammed this big bear with his 416 B&M and the 225 Raptor....... Here is what he told me;

Michael,
I just want to let you know that I had a successful brown bear hunt. The rifle/bullet combo performed perfectly. I will work on some more and try to get you a good pic for your website if you want. It was tough hunting, There was a mild winter and a warm and early spring. This was the only shooter I saw on the entire hunt. I shot him on day 6. The wind got swirly and hit me in the back of the neck when I was 155 yards from the sow. The boar was in the woods. We could not risk getting any closer. When he came out and was a slight quartering towards, I hit him with the 225 gr raptor and and turned around toward the woods and went 5 yards and went straight down.
Thanks, Greg

And his rifle........

 

[michael458]

I have almost a full box of the 180gr flat base raptors from the 416 express test

I can't remember what year, but my friend in Australia Dayrl Lenkic had Dan make those 180 Raptors for his 308Winchester/416. Dan let me know, I was leaving for Australia in a couple of weeks, Dan sent some for me to load up and take with. I shot and tested quickly in 416 B&M at 3186 fps in my 18 inch gun and 3323 fps in the 20 inch test gun at only 52000 PSI, but had run out of case capacity as I remember, and date on this test work was 9/2013. I took along some of the 180s and shot one pig with them and it was devastating, using the 18 inch gun. I mean it tore the pig nearly in half.

Then I got in a 7 buffalo battle, and had to scream for the ammo bearer (Paul) to bring more ammo, I had shot out. This was with 18 inch 416 B&M, he brought the whole box, and I just started loading anything I could get my hands on, and shot a bunch more, if they moved, I shot...... I had dead buffalo strung out for 200 yards...... When I looked back I had shot most of the 180s and more of what I had in the box... LOL........ it was a battle, what I can I say........ not really sure how they worked, there were more holes in buffalo than I could sort out......

This is my little 18 inch gun.............I can say this, I used this little gun after carrying a 19 inch 500 MDM that weighs only 8.25 lbs a few days, and this little 416 at 6.5 lbs no scope of course, really was nice to tote around, but it was not anywhere close to as effective as the 500..............