Remington closing plant in Ilion NY after 207 years

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't know what all the whinging and bitching is about. So what if a firearms manufacture moves state.

At least you still have a firearms industry.

In Australia we have Lithgow firearms that produce our military weapons and a few civilian weapons. There's a couple of very small companies that make firearms as well.

We can't even make enough powder to satisfy our own needs but can supply to other countries.

We Don't make primers.

Winchester relocated their 22lr and shot she'll manufacturing from Australia back to the USA.

So in the big scheme of things who gives a rats arse why they relocated be grateful you still have a thriving arms business
Bob

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't know what all the whinging and bitching is about. So what if a firearms manufacture moves state.

At least you still have a firearms industry.

In Australia we have Lithgow firearms that produce our military weapons and a few civilian weapons. There's a couple of very small companies that make firearms as well.

We can't even make enough powder to satisfy our own needs but can supply to other countries.

We Don't make primers.

Winchester relocated their 22lr and shot she'll manufacturing from Australia back to the USA.

So in the big scheme of things who gives a rats arse why they relocated be grateful you still have a thriving arms business
Bob

I'm beginning to think primers must be made on another planet. I'm looking for crappy magnum shells of any variety on the shelves just so I can knock the primers out to reload my 404.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm beginning to think primers must be made on another planet. I'm looking for crappy magnum shells of any variety on the shelves just so I can knock the primers out to reload my 404.

@Ontario Hunter
Magnum primers are made on planet Unobtanium which isn't far from Krypton. You will have more chance of finding a unicorn farming rainbows.
My mate @ Peter who needed some for his 404. Fortunately I had close on 100 that were a dismal failure in my Whelen with Winchester 748 so he ended up with them for free.
Bob

 

[JimP]

Primers are showing up.

A friend who lives in south west Colorado found a store had quite a few in stock.

 

[Woodcarver]

In Ontario shooters need a firearm possession license to buy ammo. I don't have a problem with that. Why should someone be able to legally buy ammo if he can't legally own a firearm? Anyone with a license is certified not a felon or wife beater and has passed the test to know how to safely use a firearm. Makes sense to me. Plus with my firearms license I can mail order a gun without dealing with nonsense FFL middlemen.

Your not having a problem with needing a firearm possession license and thinking that makes sense, is telling. Do you have confidence the moron running Canada has any interest in your ability to buy a gun or the fodder to feed it? Good luck with that.

As to the OP, it's good to see the new RemArms relocating. I know a huge hurdle for all the firearm manufacturers in the northeast is the excessive taxes and liberal policies. Coupled with the enormous cost of moving some of the old equipment (replacement, even if possible, an even more daunting cost), has required some aspects of manufacture to remain in very anti-gun states even when the company relocated. Hopefully, at some point, they can truly wave goodbye and take 100% of their business out of those locales.
As @BeeMaa stated, "Seeing RemArms do well is good for the gun industry and a rising tide raises all boats. Good luck to them in Georgia." I agree.

 

[Doug3006]

Your not having a problem with needing a firearm possession license and thinking that makes sense, is telling. Do you have confidence the moron running Canada has any interest in your ability to buy a gun or the fodder to feed it? Good luck with that.

As to the OP, it's good to see the new RemArms relocating. I know a huge hurdle for all the firearm manufacturers in the northeast is the excessive taxes and liberal policies. Coupled with the enormous cost of moving some of the old equipment (replacement, even if possible, an even more daunting cost), has required some aspects of manufacture to remain in very anti-gun states even when the company relocated. Hopefully, at some point, they can truly wave goodbye and take 100% of their business out of those locales.
As @BeeMaa stated, "Seeing RemArms do well is good for the gun industry and a rising tide raises all boats. Good luck to them in Georgia." I agree.

Do you have confidence the moron running Canada has any interest in your ability to buy a gun or the fodder to feed it?

…or any of his minions down to and including the unelected civil servant who issues the permits? A system that makes bureaucrats the gatekeepers in charge of civil liberty has no liberty.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Had question asked about my comments on non adjustable Timney now coming on Remington 700. Here are pics of the trigger. I am changing out another one today.

 

[375Fox]

Had question asked about my comments on non adjustable Timney now coming on Remington 700. Here are pics of the trigger. I am changing out another one today.
View attachment 572767
View attachment 572768
View attachment 572769
View attachment 572770

What does Remington set their triggers at?

 

[mdwest]

What I find really interesting is...

Timney is selling that same non adjustable trigger as a low cost option on their website for people wanting to swap out the old walker style trigger on older rifles..

if youre going to pay $124 for a replacement non adjustable Timney trigger.. why wouldnt you pay $134 for an adjustable one????

If you dont want to monkey around with and adjust your trigger.. then dont.. but for $10 more I can have the option to adjust out creep, overtravel, and pull weight vs having to live with whatever I get otherwise???

Seems like a no brainer to me..

But apparently Timney is selling them...

Im guessing if you have a box of "used" non adjustable "impact" triggers, you could list those things on ebay and get $70-$90 each for them all day long..

Impact Remington 700 Trigger

Best replacement triggers available

timneytriggers.com

I LOVE timney triggers.. literally every single one of my bolt actions have one with the exception of one that has a Rifle Basix trigger in it..

but I cant fathom a reason for getting a non adjustable one that is factory set to 4lbs..

 

[Hunter-Habib]

This is actually a blessing in disguise, in my opinion.

Moving to a state which has a more positive mindset towards firearms ownership & hunting can only be good thing for any firearms/ammunition manufacturer (regardless of the reason).

 

[HankBuck]

Well, let's look at the business decisions before the collapse. Taking over those other gun companies when Remington itself was on the ropes was dumb. And the crap they put out wasn't helping. Turning the 870 into Express trash was disgraceful. Just the other day I talked to a farmer who made the mistake of buying one and, like almost everyone else who owns an 870 Express, he couldn't get it to eject. He wrote Remington and they sent him instructions on how to polish the chamber. Yeah, HE'S supposed to do the repairs to make THEIR gun work? Staff in the gun shop have to work hard to keep those Express guns from rusting on the shelf. Get one wet duck hunting and your black gun just turned red. Remington already makes one cheap junker pump shotgun that no one will buy (877 I think it's called ... I've only seen a handful on the shelf). Why mess up a model that had a great reputation? To make a fast buck selling junk. And we all know about the "Remington moment" that plagued the Model 700 for decades. How long did it take them to make that gun safe? The decline in quality of Marlin products under Remington ownership is well known. Or maybe it's just malicious rumor? Then they buy out Montana Rifle Company's barrel making business and ship it to Alabama because that state made them "tax incentive" bribes Montana wouldn't agree to. But they never built the plant in Alabama. I understand the stuff is still sitting down there gathering rust. I'm told they also acquired the rest of Montana Rifle but unsure if it's true. Wouldn't surprise me. The new Montana Rifle Company's quality control issues and terrible support are fast ruining a great reputation the Sipes built from scratch.

I don't expect Remington to survive in Georgia either. The company has gone too far down the toilet. Too much competition from other gun makers that haven't made the mistake of getting too big too fast. Only a large government defense contract will save them and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Ontario, your harsh comments about Remington are right - Remington quality has deteriorated so badly the past 30 years that “failure” is now their destiny. I owned land and a home 30 miles from their NY factory and several neighbors worked there - both told me that they would “never buy a Remington made after the 1980s”. As you also mention the model 870 Express is JUNK, the “Saturday Night Special” of Pump shotguns. The only thing that the 870 Express does well - is RUST....it can Rust “expressly Fast”. My friend in NJ bought one when I first started to take him Duck hunting in 1998 - brand new, never hunted before, it had visible rust after our first hunt and he sold it mid season after it was rusted thoroughly and was starting to jam. Lastly, if you ever visit their plant and go through the “Remington Museum” you would understand why the Company is destined for failure - the building, parking lot, and even museum itself was a dilapidated embarrassment. They lived off their brand Name for decades and have nothing left....it is a shame

 

[HankBuck]

if possible, these companies should be supported for making the move to a more tax/firearm friendly state.

I’m not a Weatherby fan. But for that reason alone I would like to purchase one made in Wyoming. It took huge cojones to pull stakes from hostile California

I would imagine Remington stayed this long due to nostalgia and the cost of moving or building huge machinery.

Perhaps, instead of trying to survive as a behemoth company. It’s better to re tool as a quality smaller (quality) company in a firearm friendly state.

Altitude, I don’t believe that Remington “stayed this long due to nostalgia” - it was due to a lack of Leadership and foresight - Everyone loses, their workers and their Customers especially. Now, Remington has lost their reputation - to all but the most uniformed consumer. They are making a smart (desperate) move - but 30 years too late.

 

[mdwest]

Remington quality has deteriorated so badly the past 30 years that “failure” is now their destiny.

I would agree that failure is the path they have been on for a pretty good while..

but Im not sure its their destiny..

Remember.. its not the "old" remington that is making this move..

that company (and its management) no longer exist..

the new owners of remington, Vista Outdoor, has a fairly long track record of properly managing and frankly making a good bit of money across an extremely long list of "outdoors" focused brands.. They also have recently purchased Simms Fishing Products as well..

The Vista CEO was extremely successful in his previous role as the President of Artic Cat..

It is the new ownership and new CEO that is making what is clearly a bold move in telling the NY legislature and NY unions to kiss their hairy ass..

I wouldnt count them out just yet..

 

[HankBuck]

The non-adjustable trigger is unfortunately likely a good business decision in today’s world. Remington can’t be sued if it’s not their product or a modification of their product.

375Fox, it’s a “Lawyers” decision Not a good decision but a very common one made in poorly run businesses. Once corporate Lawyers begin making product decisions for any business - failure follows. It’s why Lawyers are never made CEO or COO in publicly traded companies - they can NOT make decisions only mitigate risk....they always require oversight. Put 5 Lawyers into a meeting and you know what gets done? Nothing!

 

[HankBuck]

What does Remington set their triggers at?

35 pounds or 5 times the weight of the rifle - which ever is heavier (their Lawyers determined that!)

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

What does Remington set their triggers at?

This one was 4.5 lbs.
have seen as low as 3.5 lbs up to 6lbs.
They vary a lot

 

[CoElkHunter]

What I find really interesting is...

Timney is selling that same non adjustable trigger as a low cost option on their website for people wanting to swap out the old walker style trigger on older rifles..

if youre going to pay $124 for a replacement non adjustable Timney trigger.. why wouldnt you pay $134 for an adjustable one????

If you dont want to monkey around with and adjust your trigger.. then dont.. but for $10 more I can have the option to adjust out creep, overtravel, and pull weight vs having to live with whatever I get otherwise???

Seems like a no brainer to me..

But apparently Timney is selling them...

Im guessing if you have a box of "used" non adjustable "impact" triggers, you could list those things on ebay and get $70-$90 each for them all day long..

Impact Remington 700 Trigger

Best replacement triggers available

timneytriggers.com

I LOVE timney triggers.. literally every single one of my bolt actions have one with the exception of one that has a Rifle Basix trigger in it..

but I cant fathom a reason for getting a non adjustable one that is factory set to 4lbs..

I'll bet Timney made Rem Arms a "deal" they couldn't refuse on those non adjustable ones?

 

[TTundra]

Probably for the 20th time...

This is not the same company. RemArms purchased the old Remington Firearms assets.

Immediately after the acquisition, the old Remington Union began negotiating to have who they deemed worthy to begin working again, being the more senior people, otherwise known as highest paid labor. RemArms wanted to hire back who they felt was worth it via meritocracy...which we all know is a liberals favorite criteria for hire....

I would argue RemArms began their planning for moving the factory during due diligence and it was confirmed during the union demands. This, coupled with a hostile state government which quite literally prohibits its citizens from carrying firearms for self defense which ended in a landmark Supreme Court ruling, as well as their continuous additions to bans on the most popular rifle in America, makes it even more logical.

Tax incentives added to non union labor makes this as easy a decision for a business to make as ever purely from the financial sense not even accounting for outdated and dilapidated equipment of the old buildings.

So yes, without the Union scale pay wages, obsolete building maintenance, endless NY political issues, RemArms can now focus on improved quality of product.

Things will get better, but they need to show the customer to earn that trust back. I'm sure there are quite a few covenants to the note...

 

[HankBuck]

I'll bet Timney made Rem Arms a "deal" they couldn't refuse on those non adjustable ones?

I'll bet Timney made Rem Arms a "deal" they couldn't refuse on those non adjustable ones?

CoElkHunter, my guess is the opposite - Remington made a deal Timney couldn’t refuse “Big $$$”. This deal only enhances Remington’s damaged reputation but does nothing for Timney....except makes them a lot of money for loaning out their name - on an inferior trigger (inferior to Timneys reputation for a making quality triggers). It’s like when you see Calvin Klein jeans selling in Costco or Walmart....just a cheaper version jean that has Calvin’s name as the selling point but Not their quality. So now, maybe Remington Rifles will be worth building into a “custom rifle” - buy one, throw out everything except the trigger and build something nice.

 

[HankBuck]

I would agree that failure is the path they have been on for a pretty good while..

but Im not sure its their destiny..

Remember.. its not the "old" remington that is making this move..

that company (and its management) no longer exist..

the new owners of remington, Vista Outdoor, has a fairly long track record of properly managing and frankly making a good bit of money across an extremely long list of "outdoors" focused brands.. They also have recently purchased Simms Fishing Products as well..

The Vista CEO was extremely successful in his previous role as the President of Artic Cat..

It is the new ownership and new CEO that is making what is clearly a bold move in telling the NY legislature and NY unions to kiss their hairy ass..

I wouldnt count them out just yet..

Midwest, you present a paradox - well run “large AND profitable” company with proven track record vs making a quality firearm? Can the two go together? Browning seems to do it ok. But don’t many (or most) of the best made forearms come from relatively small businesses — not traded on the NYSE ? I don’t have the answer, my guess is that these days I’m looking for smaller companies making quality products...and that mostly because I don’t think “quality” is a priority in most businesses, especially big companies that are publicly traded. I’m fortunate that I can afford to spend a little more to get the quality I want (or think I need) and there is a market & need for decent budget friendly gun...it’s just no my interest rightly but agree t is an important need and provides good tools to new hunters & sportsmen.