PROPER Marksmanship Training

[skydiver386]

Although I enjoy discussing gear, hunts and other experiences in the outdoors, I truly believe that Marksmanship has fallen by the wayside. We've all seen the guy with the short barreled rifle with the new Chinese Star 20-60x80 scope, or the guys that dump a mag into the backstop as fast as they can, but how many times have you seen anyone at a Range Facility doing PROPER Marksmanship drills? Correct form in the standing, kneeling, sitting and prone positions?

Here in the U.S., we have Appleseed shoots that teach Basic Rifle Marksmanship, as well as American history. If you haven't attended one, you are missing out on something special.

Project Appleseed | Project Appleseed

appleseedinfo.org

Cost is minimal, you can shoot with the rifle you already have, and meet some great people along the way.

 

[rgsiii]

When I was hunting in Europe, they seemed to have a pretty low opinion of American marksmanship.

 

[375Fox]

When I was hunting in Europe, they seemed to have a pretty low opinion of American marksmanship.

Where did you hunt in Europe? Only the countries with the German hunting traditions are known for their shooting. The French seem to be accepted as generally some of the worst shots everywhere I’ve hunted (even in Europe) and Eastern Europeans are known for accidental discharges.

 

[poco]

I hate to go to the range, lots of weirdos popping caps, I get annoyed by the rapid fire and lack of form, they get annoyed by my 375 or other rifles and me calling a cease fire to check/ change my targets
at the ranch my uncle would setup a sporting clay style rifle range, a walk around and shoot standing, sitting, prone @ unknown range and wind ( pure practice hunting simulator mode )

 

[PARA45]

In preparation to my trip to SA last year, I practiced once a week with the shooting sticks I was taking with me to SA. I would shoot a 22 LR, and the CZ-550 375 H&H I was taking to Africa. I would move the target to different distances up to 200 yds and shoot from the sticks. I would star with the 22 LR, then switch to the 375 H&H, and I would finish with the 22LR. I practiced for closed to 5 months, and it helped out tremendously.

 

[Lancaster]

Where did you hunt in Europe? Only the countries with the German hunting traditions are known for their shooting. The French seem to be accepted as generally some of the worst shots everywhere I’ve hunted (even in Europe) and Eastern Europeans are known for accidental discharges.

I have guided people and accompanied friends from all over the world and I'd say it's pretty unfair to generalise, there are good and bad from all countries

However, back to the OP, I could not agree more, I find in the UK at least sportsmen have had a shotgun shooting lesson but very few have ever had any training in rifle marksmanship, they are happy to spend many thousands of pounds on rifles and scopes yet won't shell out £200 for a weekend's course

Having had the training then, of course practice is key, I was always told that for most people - taking ten shots at a target for every one at an animal per annum is a good ratio. And, as mentioned elsewhere after checking zero from a bench or prone that practice needs to happen in the range of positions encountered in the field i.e. standing from sticks

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I never bothered much with the range. Ammo isn't cheap and then I have to mess with cleaning the gun, etc. I was, and still prefer to be, a tracker so shots are typically close and quick. Usually offhand. Shooting a moose at twenty yards doesn't require extraordinary marksmanship skills. Fortunately, it seems every time I do have to use the range I have the place to myself.

 

[rgsiii]

Where did you hunt in Europe? Only the countries with the German hunting traditions are known for their shooting. The French seem to be accepted as generally some of the worst shots everywhere I’ve hunted (even in Europe) and Eastern Europeans are known for accidental discharges.

Austria. Going to local ranges, I don’t see any reason not to agree with that.

 

[John Wasmuth]

..

 

[375Fox]

In preparation to my trip to SA last year, I practiced once a week with the shooting sticks I was taking with me to SA. I would shoot a 22 LR, and the CZ-550 375 H&H I was taking to Africa. I would move the target to different distances up to 200 yds and shoot from the sticks. I would star with the 22 LR, then switch to the 375 H&H, and I would finish with the 22LR. I practiced for closed to 5 months, and it helped out tremendously.

I can’t shoot as much as some here can. I try to limit my shooting to 5 at a range session (range is very close) with a 300 win or 375 H&H. 22 practice has unfortunately never replicated a center fire rifle for me. I had dummy rounds loaded up that I couldn’t distinguish from the live rounds. Dry fire practice with those rounds is what makes the difference for me before a hunt. I’ll get 4 or 5 trigger squeezes on what my brain thinks is a live round. When the trigger breaks I know exactly how my shot would have been and what I need to improve on. I wish 22 practice would help me, but my brain seems to always associate it with zero recoil and doesn’t try to create any bad habits that it identifies with larger rounds. Recoil covers up a lot of bad habits people night not recognize they have.

 

[Jim Golden]

I live out in the woods and have an 80 yard range set up. I could "maybe" clear some trees and squeeze out 100, but the 80 is what I've got and what I've shot my rifles in at. Seems to work OK. Not sure how far a guide would let me shoot at a Cape Buff. I figure most of the shots are probably less than 80 yards so think I'm probably OK. Not really sure how much fun it would be to snipe one at 300 yards. I'd rather stalk in closer. I only shoot the .375 Roy standing up. Not going to try it prone!

But I have shot smaller rifles from all positions and agree it's great practice.

 

[TheSayHeyKid]

Love the thread and the various replies and backgrounds. I would agree that "as a whole" marksmanship has ticked down over the years. I'm not old, but nor am I young (48)...so this isn't some old codger opining about the way things were back in the day. Now that being said, I grew up on a farm with PLENTY of room to shoot and a father who was a hunter safety instructor. Once he impressed safety upon me over the course of a couple of years, I've had a .22 or small gauge shotgun in my hands since then. I enjoy shooting from multiple positions and do it pretty much all summer long with just a .22 LR. At the end of each session I'll grab one of the centerfire rifles and send a couple down range from those same positions. It has been very helpful to me over the decades. At some point in my 20's I managed to separate the shooting procedure into two parts. The first being breathing, focus, form, and execution of the trigger pull. The second part is "I felt the recoil" and it doesn't mean sh*t to me because that projectile has already left the pipe. I first started applying that separation to my light recoiling rifles (257 Roberts and my 7mm-08) and then later to my heavier calibers (375 and 416). I'm not out there to get kicked around, but if you can focus and compartmentalize the break of the trigger...well sh*t, what happens after that you can wear with pride (whether it be as sore shoulder or a loose filling). Just my opinion of course, but it has served me well.

 

[ARHinAK]

A coworker told me about an Appleseed shoot he’d attended a couple years ago and it sounded like it was very basic but interesting. I got on line, downloaded the target they use and the next time I went to the range I used my shot timer and shot the course of fire according to the rules.
It is almost exactly like a Marine Corps qualification course of fire from back in the old days and I’ll have to say it was dang near the most fun I’ve had at the range in a long long time. I’d highly recommend everyone do it.
I think if I work on it a bit I could ace it.
As far as Europeans or anyone else having a low opinion of American shooters, well, everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think they are dead wrong. I’d take a cross section of shooters who grew up in a country with access to any firearm they wanted and shot ammunition by the truck load since they were 10 years old over any other group of people were it takes 3 years worth of paperwork to own the limited number of firearms you’re allowed to have and your limited ammunition is registered and accounted for.
That being said, I’ve been to the range a plenty and I’ve just about seen it all, the good and bad.

 

[375Ruger416]

Although I enjoy discussing gear, hunts and other experiences in the outdoors, I truly believe that Marksmanship has fallen by the wayside. We've all seen the guy with the short barreled rifle with the new Chinese Star 20-60x80 scope, or the guys that dump a mag into the backstop as fast as they can, but how many times have you seen anyone at a Range Facility doing PROPER Marksmanship drills? Correct form in the standing, kneeling, sitting and prone positions?

Here in the U.S., we have Appleseed shoots that teach Basic Rifle Marksmanship, as well as American history. If you haven't attended one, you are missing out on something special.

Project Appleseed | Project Appleseed

appleseedinfo.org

Cost is minimal, you can shoot with the rifle you already have, and meet some great people along the way.

Great point! Here in Canada, we have a similar course called Mapleseed. I did it prior to Covid, and have since started helping instruct it.

It’s great for learning essentials of marksmanship and I highly recommend it. My brother in law, 2 nephews, and my uncle did it this fall before hunting season and all thought it was excellent.

 

[WAB]

In preparation to my trip to SA last year, I practiced once a week with the shooting sticks I was taking with me to SA. I would shoot a 22 LR, and the CZ-550 375 H&H I was taking to Africa. I would move the target to different distances up to 200 yds and shoot from the sticks. I would star with the 22 LR, then switch to the 375 H&H, and I would finish with the 22LR. I practiced for closed to 5 months, and it helped out tremendously.

This is an excellent suggestion. When I am prepping for a hunt I hump a 5 mile
Loop over the hill at the back of our farm with whatever boots/pack/rifle I will be carrying and finish on the range. Typically just three shots from a hunting position at the end of a hard hike. I find it to be great preparation. I am fortunate to have the space to do it.

When I lived in Wyoming I hiked high and shot
rock chucks to prepare for deer and elk hunts.

 

[Macduff]

Interesting question.

Appleseed is a great program and almost all shooters would benefit from a course, not just new shooters.

I grew up shooting a lot. I got my first rifle, a Cricket, when I was 4 and I’ve been hooked ever since. I learned to shoot by plinking cans off a rusted out tobacco setter.

I can’t count the bricks of 22lr I burned as a teenager and in my early 20’s. I have a CZ 53 varmint with a set trigger and I absolutely love it. I’ve got an 18x (admittedly overpowered) scope on it and I love shooting dime sized groups all day long.

I don’t get to shoot nearly as much these days, between kids and work, but I find a range session to be cathartic. If I get more time and schedule a hunt for 2024, I’d like to build a more structured training plan starting from the sticks, then offhand, and finally shooting on movers. Crawl, walk, run for those so inclined.

 

[mark-hunter]

how many times have you seen anyone at a Range Facility doing PROPER Marksmanship drills? Correct form in the standing, kneeling, sitting and prone positions?

Never did I see something like that.
In my place, it is basically ISSF training, three position for young people training for ISSF competitions. And this is rare!

99% of hunters, just zero the rifle from bench.
Target shooters, just train their staff. Long range - prone position, clay targets their trap, bulls eye pistol shooters, just train their bulls eye. IPSC train IPSC dynamics.
I train for hunting: I zero the rifle from bench, then train by standing from stick, and kneeling from stick. (But I also go for local competitions in long range, idpa, pistol buls eye, so I am "compensationg" with various activities.
But this is not usual case. Shooters these days, that I see - are specialized.

When I was hunting in Europe, they seemed to have a pretty low opinion of American marksmanship.

Average hunter in my area never developed that kind of thinking. Besides, you can not be worse then average hunter in my place. Where majority of hunters rarely check the rifle before the season.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

With current price of ammo and scarcity of components (especially primers!) I suspect a lot of pay-to-play ranges are probably in trouble. My trap club is about done for. These days doing a lot of shooting at the range really is not feasible for many working guys with families. Besides the expense, it's hard to find the time if they have to work a couple of jobs just to pay rent. The times they are a changing!

 

[375Ruger416]

With current price of ammo and scarcity of components (especially primers!) I suspect a lot of pay-to-play ranges are probably in trouble. My trap club is about done for. These days doing a lot of shooting at the range really is not feasible for many working guys with families. Besides the expense, it's hard to find the time if they have to work a couple of jobs just to pay rent. The times they are a changing!

Yes, I fear you are right. The Canadian governments recent ban on purchase and transfers of handguns spells the death knell for many clubs and private ranges, at least long term. Handgun users are a huge proportion of those with range memberships.

I’m cynical enough to believe the Liberals consider that a feature, not a bug.

 

[TheSayHeyKid]

Our club here is doing well in regards to the number of shooters (32 trap teams and about 50 league skeet shooters). What I have noticed is that our clay target usage is down. I too have cut back. It would be nothing for me to go out and puff 100 or 125 clays in a morning, but now I cap myself at 50 and call it a day. While shotshell availability has been good, the cost has been high. It's definitely lead to a decrease on the shotgun ranges. The same has been seen at our rifle range...same number of shooters as always, but a lot less going downrange.