New to Muzzle loader

[Skshyk]

Hi all, I ended up booking a Colorado Elk hunt muzzle loader only in a premium unit! The problem is I do not have a muzzle loader, never shot and have no idea about them. But I figured its another excuse to buy another gun and learn something new.
I am looking for a modern rifle and easy to use. Any recommendations on brand or models would be greatly appreciated.

 

[375er]

I would say Thompson Center or CVA. Be sure to check regulations as to what is considered a legal ignition system such as 209 primers vs No. 11 caps, etc. Scopes vs iron sights only?
Many good bullets out there and use loose powder and not pellets from the start and you should find something that works for you.

 

[JimP]

I have both a Thompson Center Triumph and a CVA Accura in 50 caliber along with a Thompson Center Renegade side lock in 54 caliber.

Right now if I was looking for another muzzle loader it would be the Thompson Center Encore with the interchangeable 50 caliber muzzle loader barrel. That way I can also just pick up others center fire barrels if I wanted to use it for a single shot rifle.

Here in Colorado you need open/iron sights. Peep sights and a couple others qualify as open sights if you don't want to use regular open sights. 209 primers are also legal. The powder needs to be in loose form so no pellets. Bullets need to be full size with conical's allowed, also round balls. For elk the minimum caliber it 50.

What unit are you looking at? I had a muzzle loader tag for unit 81 back in 2014 and got a nice 5x6. This unit has a lot of 350 size bulls and a few that will go larger.

 

[Skshyk]

I will be hunting unit 42. Thanks for the heads up did not even think about the open sights I was looking for something with a scope. I have been looking at CVA. I saw the Gunwerks at the DSC show that muzzleloader was very impressive but just looked up the price $10k! Looks like I wont even be able to use the scope so that will not work.

 

[JimP]

42 is a great unit with lots of private, that is where a good outfitter comes in handy.

The no scope regulation keeps a lot of newer muzzle loaders out of the picture. I won my CVA Accura or I wouldn't have a muzzle loader with a scope on it. I used it in Utah where scopes are legal for a great mule deer. The funny thing is that I shot that deer at around 75 yards.

I have friends who live in it and they consider the elk there pets and don't allow any hunting on their property, but you can go just outside of their property and shoot the same elk.

 

[putter97127]

I bought a Traditions Buckstalker in-line for my daughter last year. Pretty affordable and shoots well with Conicals. Much easier to clean than my old side-lock. Watch out, muzzleloader hunting is pretty addictive... They are fun to shoot and usually a lot less people in the woods during muzzleloader only seasons

 

[Skshyk]

Yes, I did hire a outfitter I used in the past. I contacted them with intentions of booking a cow elk hunt to fill the freezer, when I told him I had elk points he offered unit 42 muzzleloader and here we are now. I think I may just go with the CVA.

 

[mdwest]

Ive got a TC that is EXCELLENT.

T/C Encore® Pro Hunter™ XT - Thompson/Center

The hunt never ends with the Thompson/Center T/C Encore® Pro Hunter™ XT. #hunting #TCArms

www.tcarms.com

Same platform as the TC Encore Pro Hunter rifles... just a ML..

Well built, accurate, etc.. at a very reasonable price... I like mine so much I have given serious consideration to buying an Encore Pro Hunter centerfire rifle, a bunch of barrels, etc.. and turning much of my current arsenal into safe queens...

 

[rookhawk]

Hi all, I ended up booking a Colorado Elk hunt muzzle loader only in a premium unit! The problem is I do not have a muzzle loader, never shot and have no idea about them. But I figured its another excuse to buy another gun and learn something new.
I am looking for a modern rifle and easy to use. Any recommendations on brand or models would be greatly appreciated.

You can spend as much on a muzzle loader as people spend on cars. The cheap ones are cheap. The expensive ones are accurate. The really expensive ones are capable of 700 yard shots across canyons on elk.

The bare minimum in my opinion is the remington 700 ultimate muzzleloader. Out of the box, they are good quality, a real rifle, and they are 200+ yard accurate. They make one with iron sights if optics are illegal in your unit. If you decide you want more accuracy, they are an upgradeable weapon. The gun is also capable of shooting a much, much hotter load which may be essential on your hunt if you need lethality at range. Upgrades people do to these guns include:

1.) Replacing the breech plug system with a magnum rifle primer design. You then get consistent ignition. This opens up use with Blackhorn 209 which is the most accurate black powder substitute.

2.) Replacing the trigger with a drop-in Rem 700 trigger of higher quality.

3.) Installing talley rings/bases and a quick detach peep sight system from talley so you can go from optic legal to optic illegal hunts easily.

4.) T-REX muzzlebrake that turns the 60lb recoil beast into a soft kicking weapon.

5.) Some guys spend $1500 having the barrel removed (50 cal) and install a smokeless powder 45 caliber barrel. My gun is 350 yard accurate at present, if I wanted 500-700 yards, you go with that conversion, custom swaging dies to swage all your bullets precisely, run non-sabot loads, etc.

 

[mdwest]

I would say Thompson Center or CVA. Be sure to check regulations as to what is considered a legal ignition system such as 209 primers vs No. 11 caps, etc. Scopes vs iron sights only?
Many good bullets out there and use loose powder and not pellets from the start and you should find something that works for you.

Whats the aversion to pellets?

I get that much like building a hand load for a centerfire rifle, you can play around with loose powder and figure out exactly what your ML likes best, etc..

But with the TC Encore ML, I literally have never shot anything other than Triple 7 pellets.. and get great groups and great down range performance... I much prefer pellets over loose powder... (although I also freely admit I am no ML expert.. its just a tool I use to expand options and the length of seasons.. )...

 

[Berettaco]

I’ve been hunting elk a while - took my first with a muzzleloader this year in Colorado unit 58. Above comments are correct, loose powder and open sights - also cannot use sabot slugs.
Here’s my 2 cents - buy a TC triumph or encore - I have had quite a few and they are the best in my opinion. if something is going to fail on your muzzle loader it’s going to be the cheap plastic sights (this is why I take 2 rifles with me). Also - the BC and sectional density are terrible on muzzle loader bullets. Strongly suggest you look at getting Thor Bullets. With a ML your will want to avoid shooting the shoulder, need to wait for a clean heart/lung shot or you will be in for a long hike. This last year the elk weren’t bugling and it was a hard week of hunting - finally got a 20 yard shot on this bull.

 

[rookhawk]

Whats the aversion to pellets?

I get that much like building a hand load for a centerfire rifle, you can play around with loose powder and figure out exactly what your ML likes best, etc..

But with the TC Encore ML, I literally have never shot anything other than Triple 7 pellets.. and get great groups and great down range performance... I much prefer pellets over loose powder... (although I also freely admit I am no ML expert.. its just a tool I use to expand options and the length of seasons.. )...

Pellets (white hots are generally the most accurate) are a far cry from the accuracy of blackhorn 209. If you want precision AND your gun can handle the pressure, BH209 is a game changer. For a stout loud, you need a reliable ignition system (a magnum rifle primer) AND you need an action that can handle the pressure. That puts you in the $1200 Rem700 UML or a $4000 custom ML. The only thing that will top that for handling heavy loads is a smokeless muzzle loader that isn’t legal for use everywhere, but where legal can shoot accurately out to 1000 yards in some cases.

 

[375er]

Whats the aversion to pellets?

I get that much like building a hand load for a centerfire rifle, you can play around with loose powder and figure out exactly what your ML likes best, etc..

But with the TC Encore ML, I literally have never shot anything other than Triple 7 pellets.. and get great groups and great down range performance... I much prefer pellets over loose powder... (although I also freely admit I am no ML expert.. its just a tool I use to expand options and the length of seasons.. )...

Mdwest, if that works for you keep on with it. As far as pellets, I know from an industry insider that 50 grain pellets are not actually 50 grains. Per their lawyers they are intentionally Lighter so if anyone comes to sue them in the event of a mishap they have data that shows it wasn't excessive powder that caused the problem. Also, loose powder over-all is easier to ignite in all weather conditions. Like I said though, if your system works for you keep at it.

 

[JimP]

Some of you might be confusing the OP on his elk hunt here in Colorado.

Here are the regulations as far as a muzzle loader here:

2. MUZZLELOADING RIFLES & SMOOTHBORE MUSKETS
a. Only legal muzzleloaders allowed in muzzleloading seasons.
b. In-line muzzleloaders are legal.
c. Must be a single barrel that fires a single round ball or conical projectile.
d. To hunt deer, pronghorn or bear, conical bullets must be a minimum of .40
caliber, and round-ball bullets must be a minimum of .50 caliber.
e. To hunt elk or moose, conical bullets must be a minimum of .50 caliber, and
round-ball bullets must be a minimum of .54 caliber.
f. From .40 caliber to .50 caliber, bullets must weigh a minimum of 170 grains.
g. If greater than .50 caliber, bullets must weigh a minimum of 210 grains.
h. Shotshell primers and B.O.R. Lock MZ System bullets are legal.
i. Pelletized powder systems are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
j. Cannot be loaded from the breech during muzzleloading seasons.
k. Only open or iron sights allowed in muzzleloading seasons. Fiber optics
and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal.
Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic
gear are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
l. Sabots are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons. Cloth patches are not sabots.
m. Smokeless powder is prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Black powder
and black-powder substitutes are legal.
n. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached
to muzzleloader during muzzleloading seasons

As for powder, I have found Pyrodex RS just as accurate as BH 209 in both of my inlines. BH 209 is cleaner but not by much.

Purchasing a Remington Ultra ML is really not in play unless the OP wants to shoot 600+ yards. I know a hunter who had a tag in Utah for the Monroe unit and missed a great bull because he figured that he could drop it at 675 yard with his Remington, it didn't happen. He could of gotten much closer but figured that his rifle would do the job with a scope on it and the range dialed in.

In Colorado you can not use a scope or 45 caliber bullets for elk. Open sights and a minimum of 50 caliber. A muzzle loader hunter also is required to wear
at least 500 square inches of solid daylight
fluorescent orange or fluorescent pink material on an outer garment above
the waist while hunting deer, elk, pronghorn, moose or bear with any firearm
license. A fluorescent orange or pink hat or head covering, visible from all
directions, is also required.

I think that we need to keep or conversation to the laws that are in effect here in Colorado to avoid causing confusion.

 

[R.M.C.]

I love my tc omega , with pellets or buckhorn 209 it is a tack driver. I would like to try the Remington but I can't see spending the money on it because there's only a one week inline season for whitetail doe only where I live. That buckhorn is great powder.

 

[rookhawk]

Some of you might be confusing the OP on his elk hunt here in Colorado.

Here are the regulations as far as a muzzle loader here:

2. MUZZLELOADING RIFLES & SMOOTHBORE MUSKETS
a. Only legal muzzleloaders allowed in muzzleloading seasons.
b. In-line muzzleloaders are legal.
c. Must be a single barrel that fires a single round ball or conical projectile.
d. To hunt deer, pronghorn or bear, conical bullets must be a minimum of .40
caliber, and round-ball bullets must be a minimum of .50 caliber.
e. To hunt elk or moose, conical bullets must be a minimum of .50 caliber, and
round-ball bullets must be a minimum of .54 caliber.
f. From .40 caliber to .50 caliber, bullets must weigh a minimum of 170 grains.
g. If greater than .50 caliber, bullets must weigh a minimum of 210 grains.
h. Shotshell primers and B.O.R. Lock MZ System bullets are legal.
i. Pelletized powder systems are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
j. Cannot be loaded from the breech during muzzleloading seasons.
k. Only open or iron sights allowed in muzzleloading seasons. Fiber optics
and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal.
Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic
gear are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
l. Sabots are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons. Cloth patches are not sabots.
m. Smokeless powder is prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Black powder
and black-powder substitutes are legal.
n. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached
to muzzleloader during muzzleloading seasons

As for powder, I have found Pyrodex RS just as accurate as BH 209 in both of my inlines. BH 209 is cleaner but not by much.

Purchasing a Remington Ultra ML is really not in play unless the OP wants to shoot 600+ yards. I know a hunter who had a tag in Utah for the Monroe unit and missed a great bull because he figured that he could drop it at 675 yard with his Remington, it didn't happen. He could of gotten much closer but figured that his rifle would do the job with a scope on it and the range dialed in.

In Colorado you can not use a scope or 45 caliber bullets for elk. Open sights and a minimum of 50 caliber. A muzzle loader hunter also is required to wear
at least 500 square inches of solid daylight
fluorescent orange or fluorescent pink material on an outer garment above
the waist while hunting deer, elk, pronghorn, moose or bear with any firearm
license. A fluorescent orange or pink hat or head covering, visible from all
directions, is also required.

I think that we need to keep or conversation to the laws that are in effect here in Colorado to avoid causing confusion.

Here’s the most accurate Colorado legal muzzleloader you’re going to come up with. Meets all legal requirements. (Scope is QD and rear aperture is QD for swap over) Very precise irons were made by Lee Schaber <sp?>.

Soup to nuts, minus scope, it’s probably about a $1500 gun. I would have no issue using it with irons at 200+ yards On elk.

 

[JimP]

One thing on powders, start looking now for what you want to use.

Bh 209 has been next to impossible to find. So much so that a number of my friends have switched to Triple 7. Pyrodex RS is still fairly easy to find.

Also if you don't have any 209 primers, pick them up. A few manufacturers have muzzle loader specific 209's.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I resemble @mdwest I have a TC encore, drop in two Triple7 magnum pellets, then top it with a 295 grain power belt.
It knocks the crap out of deer under 150 yards, witch is all I need.

 

[Ryan]

I resemble @mdwest I have a TC encore, drop in two Triple7 magnum pellets, then top it with a 295 grain power belt.
It knocks the crap out of deer under 150 yards, witch is all I need.

I have an Encore and normally I'd say that is a great thought.But if you want to go the T/C Encore route you'll probably have to buy it used as a centerfire rifle and then buy a muzzleloader barrel. For whatever reason new ones aren't out there at the moment. I went looking and the only thing I found was three centerfire rifles and one frame on Gunbroker. Nothing new online. E.A. Brown is big on Encore products including the muzzleloader barrel if you can find the frame. But they're not selling frames right now. Nothing instock on Bud's.

 

[Tra3]

I use a Knight ultralight. It is, in fact, ultralight! That makes for a surprising amount of recoil in a 7 lb gun shooting a 300 gr. bullet with a full load of BH209. Please pay attention to your recoil limits, these rifles can produce stout recoil.

I’d follow @rookhawk in his advice. A gun that can get you out to a longer range will be more useful in the long run. It will be a multiple season investment.