Why shoot if you can’t hunt

[rigbymauser]

I have a few times in my life been asked this question and I belive my answer has always been the same "I get stimulated by the chase, the tracking, the lurking etc etc". This bring me to the next but perhaps a more controversial topic. How many of those on this forum actually got to hunt/find their own game while hunting in Africa?. We often see(and have experienced) a PH are leading a client up to the game, somebody puts up the shooting sticks and the client more & less just have to pull the trigger(hopefully taking a good aim) and bang!. I would feel such "hunt" the hunter has been robbed for the "hunt". I know there are laws today that prohibit a man going on the shores of Africa and start his own expedition like in the 1880s. Those happy days are over.
I ofcouse see some valid points in safety issues in regards to hunt dangerous game one must have backup by experienced PHs. But for me hunting a red stag here in Denmark alone is no more different than hunting a kudu in SA for instance.

Let me hear what you all are thinking.

 

[Tim Blackwell]

With the right PH, you'll hunt plenty.

 

[rigbymauser]

With the right PH, you'll hunt plenty.

I know I know. I have met them and got the right hunt.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

My understanding is much or all of Africa requires a PH, legally, much as Alaska does for certain species for nonresidents here, so there is that.

I will tell you that for my one African hunt, having a PH and following his lead was very much hunting and did not diminish the experience for me at all, and I say that as someone who does a lot of hunting in wilderness areas on my own or with a friend. Actually I found it to be quite the opposite. It was a new experience (being guided). my PH was easy to talk to and wevwould have great discussions about how a stalk went and I would share how I might have seen it based on my experiences in Alaska. They were good friendly talks, and I learned a great deal from my PH. I would echo what Tim said. Having the right PH is huge, IMHO.

 

[375Fox]

I’ve never felt robbed of a hunt. If I think I have enough local knowledge to do the hunt on my own, I move on to a new hunt/new area because the adventure is gone to me. Every PH I’ve hunted with listened to my suggestions and talked over options with me and made it feel like we were hunting as a team. I was glad to have their knowledge and get to learn from them and it made for a much more successful hunt.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

A short follow up: I have spent my adult life hunting moose, caribou, and bear here in Alaska. What I did in Africa, following the lead of a PH, was very much hunting.

 

[Woodcarver]

I have a few times in my life been asked this question and I belive my answer has always been the same "I get stimulated by the chase, the tracking, the lurking etc etc". This bring me to the next but perhaps a more controversial topic. How many of those on this forum actually got to hunt/find their own game while hunting in Africa?. We often see(and have experienced) a PH are leading a client up to the game, somebody puts up the shooting sticks and the client more & less just have to pull the trigger(hopefully taking a good aim) and bang!. I would feel such "hunt" the hunter has been robbed for the "hunt". I know there are laws today that prohibit a man going on the shores of Africa and start his own expedition like in the 1880s. Those happy days are over.
I ofcouse see some valid points in safety issues in regards to hunt dangerous game one must have backup by experienced PHs. But for me hunting a red stag here in Denmark alone is no more different than hunting a kudu in SA for instance.

Let me hear what you all are thinking.

Your premise would be the same regardless of the country the hunt takes place in. Hunters are traveling all over the globe in pursuit of game. Here in Colorado, we see hunters from all over the world, not just from other states. A high percentage of them are paying an outfitter/PH to help them find their quarry. I doubt any, or at least very few, don't finish their time here feeling they have hunted their game.
While some of us are equipped and capable of hunting anywhere we can haul to, there are valid reasons to enlist an outfitter/PH in that pursuit. Doesn't diminish the "hunt". Having the knowledge and skill of the guide/PH is typically an additional tool in the hunter's pursuit; not a replacement for the hunter's own abilities.
I did a Bighorn sheep hunt solo. The following year was a solo moose hunt. I enjoy the solitude of the mountains while hunting. But, I have used an outfitter bear hunting in Canada, and it did not detract from my feeling of having hunted those bear. The outfitter just helped by putting me in the best position to be successful. Even if there had not been a legal requirement, I would have hired an outfitter for that hunt.

 

[gillettehunter]

Not a bad question. I think that every safari that I have gone on I have been the one to spot at least one of the animals that I eventually killed. Sometimes more. I am somewhat educated on trophy quality and what it looks like on the animals that I'm interested in hunting. In africa you are essentially in a partnership so to speak. If everybody works together then its a great experience for all.
Bruce

 

[JimP]

A hunters hunt when they are with a PH or a guide is up to them.

I have seen where a client is just along for the ride. The only time that they are a active participant is when they pull the trigger. Then there are the ones who are glassing and locating animals just as rapidly as the PH or guide.

In the long run a hunt is what you make of it.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Ok, assume you can hunt on your own on a game farm or wilderness area and the hunt somehow goes south. You break a bone, sprain your ankle, get bit by a snake. Now what? Get on your sat phone and call for help? One of my buds would have died in the bush on a hunt in Africa for it not being accompanied by a PH. Different strokes and I'm not risk averse but having someone who knows the area, the animals, the unseen dangers, pitfalls and gotchas on what to them is a local hunt far outweighs the thought of "I'm not really hunting".

 

[Jaegger]

@rigbymauser - I do hear you on the ‘root & point‘ to the conversation. I have enjoyed allot family & friends hunting camps & each Hunter plans a solo outing or maybe teams up x2.

My 1st guided hunt was Africa (Namibia) & I did feel more like a ‘follower’ than a Hunter where all decisions are your own - even getting “lost“ ! I did that once in Mtn of Utah … 1/2 day damn moment but cool heads & figured it out!

What I carried into my 2nd African Hunt & subsequent trips - Guide or PH is an enjoyable hunting companion, it is legally required, their invaluable at sorting thru the herd for the proper Mature Trophy, & the best want you to be successful. I am the Hunter - this is my Hunt, & the Hunter decides on many factors leading up to that shot moment. The shot moment is yours …

If the Thrill of the Stalk/Hunt did not fulfill your hunt moment as imaged? Then break it off, enjoy the game viewing & walk. There will be another stalk but there may not be the same quality trophy or maybe better!? I’m not intimidated to pass & I have been on the losing end of that decision - that’s hunting.

I’ve decided not to stalk when the PH suggested, or called it early & broke off the stalk because it just wasn’t playing out … clear communication w/ Guide/PH is key.

Happy Trails.

 

[BeeMaa]

@rigbymauser - I understand your question and I'd say that each client gets the hunt they desire. If a client hunter is not having the hunt they want, it's up to the client to say something about it.

Being honest with your PH (from the time you meet) about your expectations of the hunting experience is the best place to start. Straight simple talk for a few minutes can get a lot of stuff sorted out quickly.

For us it started when we met our outfitter at a convention. Our PH changed about a month before our hunt to a person we had not met. When we arrived in SA, he was up to speed because he conferred with the PH who couldn't hunt with us. The drive from the airport to the lodge was our "getting to know each other" phase and it worked out great. I could not have been happier with how our hunt was conducted.

 

[CBeck]

I haven’t been fortunate enough to take my first Africa trip. I look at it as a welcome experience. I would enjoy learning from my PH. Foreign country, foreign terrain, foreign animals. Hell, as much as I’ve read I still can’t keep all the animals straight.

I enjoy being self sufficient but I’ve always got something to learn and I’m not too proud to admit it.

My bigger concern is having a PH that can tolerate my lack of experience in Africa.

 

[Newboomer]

I haven’t been fortunate enough to take my first Africa trip. I look at it as a welcome experience. I would enjoy learning from my PH. Foreign country, foreign terrain, foreign animals. Hell, as much as I’ve read I still can’t keep all the animals straight.

I enjoy being self sufficient but I’ve always got something to learn and I’m not too proud to admit it.

My bigger concern is having a PH that can tolerate my lack of experience in Africa.

I think hunting with a PH or guide is far more productive than me(us) wandering around in strange country searching for quarry. The PH can cut out a lot of that wasted time because he knows the area and the game in it. I have hunted where the PH got me close in an area and we put on a stalk, sometimes successful, sometimes not. Other times we drove to within sight, disembarked, walked a little and took the shot. Either way, I was not handed a shot without a little input from me. I knew when I had a shot, I was getting a good legitimate trophy of the species we were hunting.

 

[Cam Moon]

@CBeck You'll be fine! That's their job, and most are pretty damn good at it! I'd bet the PH would much rather have someone admit that they don't know much than have someone pretending to know way more than they do. I'll also bet that the PH will know the truth either way! LOL You may be surprised and find that you actually knew more than you thought!
As far as having a PH take away from the feeling that you're actually hunting? Well, maybe I've just been fortunate with the PH's I've had, but I never felt that way.... And Africa is the only place I've ever hunted with a guide. Everywhere else has been self guided and free range.

 

[One Day...]

It takes two to tango...

This is a great question, to which I am very sensitive myself as I have zero desire to kill, zero desire to shoot (I do that at home on steel plate), and am only interested in the hunt...

I believe BeeMaa and Cam Moon are offering 99% of the answer, in as much as the PH will generally adapt to the client's desires and capabilities, within the realm of the reasonably possible.

This being said, and because the PH is the partner in your dance, his perspective is also important. Based on experience with numerous clients and numerous PHs, here are, in a somewhat progressing order, a couple ways the arriving client influences his PH's perspective, and a couple things your PH will be looking at to develop his opinion of what the safari will be; what you actually want; what you actually can; and how he will interact with you:

• Do you show up at the airport dressed like Stewart Granger on the set of The Last Safari 1967 movie? Oh yes, it happens...
• Do you spend the driving time from airport to lodge telling him how good a hunter and shooter you are? You would not believe how frequent it is...
• Do you look like and behave like at a complete loss when handling your rifle at the range? I promise you, there have been PHs asked to mount the scope on their client's new rifle. Hint: the purpose of shooting the rifle at the range is not really to check the rifle's zero, it is to check to client's handling of, safety with, and skills with the rifle...
• Can you shoot from the sticks? There are darn few shooting benches in the bush...
• Do you show up at the hunting truck for the first hunt with brand new boots? This one says that you have not hunted much, and will likely not want to walk more than 500 ft. from the truck...
• Do you show up at the hunting truck without binoculars? This one says all a PH needs to know about whether you intend to hunt or shoot...
• Do you drop a tape measure in the truck console? Oh my...
• Do you ask if you will be shooting from the truck? This one tells the PH that fair chase is not a concept that you either understand or care for...
• How long is your belt knife? This will say whether you ever skinned an animal (i.e. hunted), and whether you confuse a real-life safari with a Rambo movie...
• Do you wear a culling belt loaded to the last loop with 20 or more rounds? This will tell whether you have a realistic understanding of what a modern safari is...
• Are you realistic about your physical shape and marksmanship? It is a mistake to think that PH dream about biathlon scoot & shoot athletes...
• Did you come to Africa to play sniper? The current scourge of safari hunting...
• Is it progressively becoming obvious that you say what you think he wants to hear rather than what you actually think, and/or that you are a practitioner of "do as I say, not as I do" (e.g. do you behave unsportsmanlike after having entertained him for hours chatting about how highly you value sportsmanship). This tells as much about you as a person, as it does as a hunter...
• Do you confuse trackers, skinners, camp staffs, etc. with indented servitude "boys"? In case someone did not notice, apartheid ended in 1994...
• Etc.

The reality is that there ARE a couple PHs out there who either have never understood that this is the client's safari - not their own - and that they are in the service business, or who are totally burnt-out by the requirement to have to restart at square one every time they pick up a new client at the airport. In either case, they end up carting the client along from one sad shot to the next...

But there are darn few of them, and they generally do not work very long for successful outfitters, as they are promptly weeded out.

Things are more complicated when they are the one-man-show outfitter/operator/owner/PH and the only thing that can weed them out is making such a bad reputation for themselves that no one will hunt with them anymore. But even that is not a certainty, as some clients may not dare provide bad references, or feel pressure to belong to the happy club of those who praise their PH. Another angle is that the very low prices these below-par outfitter/operator/owner/PH have to offer to remain attractive, may motivate some clients to come back with the knowledge that the human experience will be poor, but the hunt will cost half the going rate. This is fair choice, but only if it is made knowingly...

The reality that all PHs are not wonderful being acknowledged, the fact is that the overwhelming majority of PHs are good people, good hunters, and far prefer to hunt hard with hunting clients, rather than cull with disinterested shooters...

In so many words, and again as BeeMaa recommended, talk with your PH. Not to your PH, but with your PH. He wants nothing more than your happiness, and the bragging right among his peers that his client shot the best trophies (i.e. he guided him to them), and the inevitable royal tip that you will extatically leave him after a successful safari, not to mention the god-like glorification you will make of him in your upcoming AH.com hunt review.

There are limits to the concept in as much as it is the rare PH who will let you drive his pride & joy Landcruiser, and you have to realistically understand that he knows the place and the animals better then you do.

But if you have been hunting seriously for 30 years, which may be longer than many young PH have lived, you may very well have as much hunting experience as your PH, and it is actually quite easy to establish a peer relation with a good PH, provided that you actually ARE his peer in the hunting fields and that you could guide him on your home turf as well as he guides you on his home turf. In which case you are hunting together, he is not hunting for you.

In summary, your safari, and whether you hunt or just shoot, are almost entirely in your own hands, and you can make it what you want it. The bottom line is that this is your time, your money, your safari, hence you are the boss ... but the best bosses know that surrounding themselves with the best and listening to them is the key to success...

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Every African hunt I have been on has been a spot and stalk, to me that means that the PH or tracker that knows the area will do their utmost to find the game for you and then they will in conjunction with your hunting abilities and skills endeavour to get you into position to make a successful shot. That part is up to you and it's your decision whether or not to take the shot. Communication with your PH and his staff is paramount for them to provide you with the hunt you desire and it is your obligation to let them know your wishes. After all it is your hunt. I have had the good fortune of hunting with three different Safari companies and every one was a great time and I think we parted with mutual respect and admiration of each others hunting experience. It's a sharing of experiences, both yours and theirs. Consider that many of the safari staff have never traveled much at all and the stories and pictures that you can share of your life and travels will enthralled them.

 

[Safari Dave]

Find the right PH for you and you should get exactly the experience you are hoping for.

Reinhardt Fourie of Legadema Safaris (RSA and MOZ) provided that, perfectly, for me with buffalo in Mozambique.

I worked up the nerve to ask him about his thoughts on stopping a buffalo with a client. He told me that he had NEVER shot a client's buffalo and would not shoot until a charging buff was coming in at about 20 yards and he knows the hunting party is in danger.

That was EXACTLY what I wanted to hear!


Every hunter has different expectations. I would rather pay for a lost buffalo, than have the PH kill it for me 100 yards away.

If another hunter wanted the buffalo dead when he had only pierced it's ear, that fine too, as far as I am concerned.

I want to hunt dangerous game because finishing off those those animals is, at least, somewhat dangerous.

That's just me.

 

[rigbymauser]

Some of my best hunts was hunting springbok on the open grassveld in Vryystaat just by myself. Enjoying the solitude, staying very very low. The PH I knew(now deseased) said the very first I was in SA..."I trust you and I trust your rifle". I have since then have had many hunts in Vryystaat. I have also like many foreign hunters hunted in fenced gamefarm. If the area is big enough and the animals has been there for a long time one can actually get a good hunt.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

If anything, the stalk gets more challenging the more people that are involved.