Why do African skinners belly cut everything ?

[buck wild]

I'm sure there is a good reason, but man it's a pain to mount lifesize critters cut that way. I have heard it's because they need it flat to salt and dry but we don't do that here in the States and hides do fine.

 

[JimP]

All the skinners on my hunt asked what I was going to do with the hide or how I was going to mount it and then skinned it accordingly.

 

[CAustin]

All the skinners on my hunt asked what I was going to do with the hide or how I was going to mount it and then skinned it accordingly.

Same here! On first hunt the skinner skinned the wildebeest up the back!

 

[Divernhunter]

My PH asked how I was going to use each animal and told the tracker/skinners how to do each animal. I had some shoulder mounts and some flat skins and some back skins. All were done well according to my taxidermist here in the states.

 

[buck wild]

Ok, I'm specifically talking about lifesize animals and to some regard shoulder mounts. In the States almost every lifesize animal is dorsal cut for a lifesize mount meaning one cut down the back and 4 smaller cuts toward the bottom of each leg. I don't do a ton of African taxidermy, but I have yet to run across even one dorsal cut lifesize skin.
As for shoulder mounts, again the the States 75% (my estimate ) are skinned using a short y incision without cape being split down the whole back. When I was over there the first time, a skinned a few of my own shoulder mounts doing this and the PHs and skinners were freaking out saying it was on me if the hides ruined. I finally gave in and just kept hunting versus skinning animals, which my PH HIGHLY recommended I do
P.S. short incision doesn't work well for impalas

For all those that have already answered your skinners did it how you wanted- were any dorsal cut or short incision caped?

 

[jeff]

I actually prefer belly cut on some life size like cougar, I find I can get more stretch with belly cut. All the taxidermists out west here almost never use the short incision, none of the outfitters cape that way. The only real problem I've had on African critters was one warthog shoulder mount that they cut all the way up the throat and through the bottom lip.

 

[buck wild]

I actually prefer belly cut on some life size like cougar, I find I can get more stretch with belly cut. All the taxidermists out west here almost never use the short incision, none of the outfitters cape that way. The only real problem I've had on African critters was one warthog shoulder mount that they cut all the way up the throat and through the bottom lip.

I find that strange- why would you want a long cut cape ? I understand outfitters and skinners not doing it that way because it's easier to skin not tubing, although I would submit it's not that much easier, but I haven't run across many taxidermist that PREFER a long cut cape.

I was just wondering why that seems to to be the standard in Africa. I end up sewing most long cut capes back into a short Y when able to make it work before I mount, but the seam is almost always a pain and unnecessary in most cases. I find I can stretch Y cut capes MORE than long cut as I can get a piece of pipe insert into the tubed skin against my fleshing beam and apply outward pressure to stretch the cape if needed. I rarely do this to the extreme as I try to mount what the cape gives me versus trying to create something it never was.

Again- I'm just wondering why Africa outfits prefer these methods. My own experience, although limited to 3 trips tells me they are even resistant to doing it different.

 

[jeff]

I've never seen a taxidermist out here that mounted any thing but deer using a short incision, and then most use the long. As to stretch I was just referring do life size dorsal cut. I can't see why you would sew up a long before mounting, sewing is sewing. It is odd how different areas use different methods. Do you want kudu , gemsbok and the like cut short?

 

[AB2506]

I've watched more than one taxidermist cape my deer/antelope by using a dorsal cut up to the base of the skull, then a y cut the base of the antelers. All references I have read indicate the same. I have never heard of tube skinning deer. As for African game, on my one trip, the PH always asked what I wanted, and the skinners skinned accordingly. I noted that their practices were the same as the taxidermists here in Alberta, except the zebra rug was skinned differently around the lips than a bear rug would be here, although I guess most bear rugs have the head mounted.

I can't imagine trying to field cape a 300lb Alberta buck by tubing it. Same for elk or moose. Snow and -20c are not conducive to fighting a hide off. On my first moose, it was -37c. The hide was freezing faster than I could skin it all the way around the body/neck, tubing would not work, I would have been skinning until spring.

 

[buck wild]

I've never seen a taxidermist out here that mounted any thing but deer using a short incision, and then most use the long. As to stretch I was just referring do life size dorsal cut. I can't see why you would sew up a long before mounting, sewing is sewing. It is odd how different areas use different methods. Do you want kudu , gemsbok and the like cut short?

Actually I personally would prefer the bigger animals be tubed with short incisions. I did my kudu and gemsbok that way- also did impala which was a rookie mistake as I noted earlier. Head was bigger than the neck junction so had to practically open it up to top of shoulder to get it over head during mounting. I ALMOST cut the head off to slip on cape than reattach after cape was on but decided not to in the end.
As for sewing- I'm much faster sewing the long cut back up while the skin is laying on my workbench than trying to sew while mounting. In addition to the time saved, I can keep more hair out of the stitch and don't get hide paste everywhere Additionally, if there is a severe turn in the pose, I know the hide isn't going to end up "uneven" when I'm done. I think a lot of times when a turn is involved and guys sew up long while on the mount that don't end at the same place as the side toward the turn doesn't get balanced out. Just my opinion.

Jeff- maybe we can continue this on email as I'm interested in hearing more about those Western practices and I'm sure most guys on here don't care about those details

 

[JimP]

I think one problem with hunters is that they don't talk to their taxidermist before going on a African safari and all they know to say is shoulder mount or full mount.

Before I left on my hunt last year I talked to the tannery where my capes and hides would be shipped to and from what I heard from the lady there is that 90% of the hunters have no idea of what it takes to do a mount or what is required of them to get the proper results. Or make arrangements ahead of time. The same was said by my taxidermist about a hunter coming into his shop a few days after they have returned home to ask him how thing need to be shipped to him.

On the subject of doing a tube capping job on deer and elk, deer are easy with a very small cut at the antlers where you can slide the skull out of the cape. Pronghorn are the same way but on a elk you might just as well as do the Y cut from the antlers down the backbone just because of the size of their skulls.

 

[Royal27]

I think one problem with hunters is that they don't talk to their taxidermist before going on a African safari and all they know to say is shoulder mount or full mount.

I will be honest, other than saying shoulder pedestal that is all I've ever said.

I think maybe an even better question is why don't more taxidermists tell clients what to ask for?

 

[JimP]

I will be honest, other than saying shoulder pedestal that is all I've ever said.

I think maybe an even better question is why don't more taxidermists tell clients what to ask for?

That is really what I was saying. Hunters don't contact a taxidermist before they leave for their hunts to see what the taxidermist wants in the cape or hide. They just show up when they return home to get the taxidermist shipping address.

 

[Royal27]

That is really what I was saying. Hunters don't contact a taxidermist before they leave for their hunts to see what the taxidermist wants in the cape or hide. They just show up when they return home to get the taxidermist shipping address.

Yeah, that is on the hunter if he doesnt let the taxi know. I agree.

My point was the opposite. I've never had a taxidermist tell me how to have something caped. Admittedly my experience is limited.

 

[buck wild]

Ok- well I'm here to open eyes I was originally trying to attract Africa PHs into more insight about their practices and maybe an understanding of why they did it that way. That didn't seem to work as all most be busy hunting already
PLEASE check with your taxidermist and seek their preference.

CON- some Amercian tanneries charge extra for tubed capes on anything but whitetails. Dont ask me why cuz I have never gotten a straight answer about that one, but also worth considering in your discussion with your taxidermist.

When I sat with the skinners on my 3 trips and discussed my skinning options- they stared at me in disbelief and wonderment. That was with all of them- approx 10 different skinners in total. They appeared to have never tried or ever been asked to do what I wanted. As the old saying goes- there are several ways to skin a cat !

 

[harden]

I would never in my life want ANY african animal skinned dorsal. EVER !
Well you just ran into a world champion and state champion and someone that has mounted game for over 45 years that ONLY wants long incision capes also......
Test fitting is easier, salting better shaving is easier, tanning is easier, thinning is easier,and no slipping. I get sheep every year that slip because dorsal skinned skins cannot be salted as well as flat open ventral cut skins.
Lifesize african dorsal cut it's way harder to hide a seam going ll the way down the back that hiding the sticking behind the leg and for and fit and refit when testing the form. You will test fit an african life-size 4 5 times before it's right. You'll spend hours getting the skin on and off during that time and you save nothing in sewing time.
Taxidermists today simply think it's less sewing and just wan to hang skin. Sewing is an ART an new taxidermists won't take the time to learn it.
I have mounted thousands of life-size African and would not want ANY dorsal cut. Ever.
If I get a Dorsal cut in I charge MORE for the extra time needed to do the extra work.


Warthogs Jim have to be done that way or they can't get the skull with large teeth out of the skin.

 

[spike.t]

so there .. think you got your reply

 

[harden]

LOL Mike At least I didn't make it all caps....LOL

 

[enysse]

Thanks for your input Dennis. That makes a lot of sense to me, I only tried mounting a few animals and the way you describe it makes total sense to me.

 

[buck wild]

I didn't think you were ever going to chime in Dennis As I stated in my first post, I was pretty sure it was related to the salting process. I certainly don't have the experience you do with African animals but I'm no novice to taxidermy itself. Other than the salting reasons, not sure how a caracal and bobcat are that different with respect to the techniques that would be used in mounting. Coyote= jackel etc. Glad I don't have to mount those belly cut skins for a living !!
For informational purposes- do you prefer the NA lifesize stuff also belly cut ?