Why didn't Germany or Continental Europe develop big bore cartridges like the British did?

Northern Shooter

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Yes I'm aware of the 500 Schuler but in general when you think big bore, dangerous game cartridges it's the British (and Americans) that come to mind. Sure Germany had the popular 9.3x62 but it's not quite in the same league as the following.

375 Holland and Holland
416 Rigby
450 NE
470 NE
500 NE
577 NE
505 Gibbs etc.

Was it because the British were more heavily invested in their colonial ventures throughout Africa and India?

Am I overlooking any big European thumpers that didn't originate in the UK?
 
I think you’re on the right track. During the heyday of gun and cartridge development the British Empire was in its ascendancy and heyday. Britain was the leading trading country in the world. They werre sending huge numbers of military, bureaucratic, and trading citizens all over the world. At the same time they had an ingrained culture of sport bring important to their society. That created demand.

So intent just big game cartridges they developed more of it was sheer number of guns and gun makers. The density of gun makers in the late 1800s and early 1900s is astounding. Certainly there were a number of European makers and some absolutely spectators ones that could hold their own with the British best. But the Brits just did a higher volume.

That’s my guess based on a ton of reading about gun and cartridge development. I don’t know that there is a hard a fast answer as it was related to a lot of factors.
 
If the Germans had not lost world war 1 and all their African colonies I’m sure their cartridges would be well known today as well. They lost Tanzania, Namibia, and Cameroon. I’d suspect the 9.3x62 retained its popularity because it’s a very practical cartridge for wild boar and red stag in Europe.
 
Germany actually had 4 colonies pre-1918..Tansania, Deutsch Südwest Afrika (Namibia), Kamerun and Togo. When they lost their colonies all caliber developement for Africa became redundant.
 
Germany as a country is young, compared not only to England but even the United States. I suspect this could be part of it.

Also part of the treaty post WWI said that Germany must disarm. Being someone who lives in New York State I can tell you that it’s not a great climate for development of small arms when the government is watching waiting for you to slip up. It happens but new ideas are neutered by red tape.
 
British cartridge development was mostly pre-WWI. The proliferation of guns themselves certainly would have shifted toward Britain after Germany lost their colonies.

Another factor is German colonies were much more state run whereas British private interests had a larger had in their colonies—think East India Company. That means there were many more private individuals travelling to them and taking time for sport hunting.

It was also just ingrained in British culture that shooting was a status symbol. That plays out in what the Brits developed such refined pieces for their driven shooting.
 
10,75x68 Mauser, 11,2x60 schüler,11,2x72 schüler, 500 schüler. To name a few

That besides the in the time popular 9,3x62 and 9,3,x74,r. Later 9,3x64. Most became obsolete but the former mentioned Schüler were intended especially for big game. Also the solids in the Mauser used at the time were not so great . It made it not a great cartridge for elephant hunting. With current technology it would be better suited.

RWS has currently a fairly new cartridge the 10,3,x68
 
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https://cartridgecollector.net/cartridge/93-x-70-magnum/ ( smaller version was a 8mm and a 7,65mm )

There were in development also but the 1930-1940s got in the way for it.

Schüler in Cologne developed a a 10,75 on the .375 Fl case , in short a 404 Jeffery flanged . Sadly not much built of but there is some rifles out there of them .
 

Attachments

Interesting never heard of the 9,3x70 Magnum
It was .375 Wby decades prior and with new primers it’s even more

I remember Harald Wolf article saying it was built a few rifles originally , the Goring brothers had each their own . In Ostpreussen where it it could get quite cold at winter , his brother mentioned some times troubles with the primers not behaving good . So otherwise than that it would get good use and work well .

But it took many years before bullets with exception of Starkmatel and Vmantel came along to hold it .

Since sadly German Hunting Guns page is working to get all back up after the devastating hacking in Nov that took everything down . This is one of few pictures around online of rifle now

23907f6d93ed29dd730d164cb2f6e768.jpg
 
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Had Germany won the First World War, German East Africa (Tanzania) and German Southwest Africa (Namibia) would have remained German. Kenya and Uganda would almost certainly have been ceded to Germany as well. The interwar years were the period when Safari exploded in the West. However, under German control, American sportsmen travelling to any of the classic safari destinations would have been met by a PH named Hans or Jurgen rather than Phillip or Harry. Those PHs would have been carrying OU or bolt action rifles in heavy metric calibers. SxS British rifles and calibers would have become a historical oddity noted perhaps for their use in India.
 
I did a little reading on this cartridge and it's interesting.

"According to the manufacturer, depending on the load its performance can be similar to .30-06 Springfield and all the way up to .416 Remington Magnum."
Blaser makes barrels for their R8 model
 
A combination of factors...

Had Germany won the First World War, German East Africa (Tanzania) and German Southwest Africa (Namibia) would have remained German. Kenya and Uganda would almost certainly have been ceded to Germany as well. The interwar years were the period when Safari exploded in the West. However, under German control, American sportsmen travelling to any of the classic safari destinations would have been met by a PH named Hans or Jurgen rather than Phillip or Harry. Those PHs would have been carrying OU or bolt action rifles in heavy metric calibers. SxS British rifles and calibers would have become a historical oddity noted perhaps for their use in India.

Exactly! And the small and medium metric calibers would have been (are) every bit as good as the fractional calibers that became lore in the English language culture...
  • 7x57: needs no introduction. So good that the Brits simply renamed it .275 Rigby...
  • 8x57: needs no introduction. Two world wars. Similar in field performance to .30-06...
  • 8x68S: better than the .300 H&H magnum and every bit as good as subsequent .300 magnums...
  • 9.3x62: needs no introduction. Maybe the closest thing to the mythical single caliber to do it all in Africa...
  • 9.3x64: aficionados consider it the only medium caliber likely better than the .375 H&H...
  • 9.3x74R: ballistic twin to the .375 H&H Flanged...
  • etc.
A certain Mauser 98 action

But the predominant factor, I believe, in the difference between metric and fractional calibers in heavy DG calibers, is the fact that the German makers benefited from the endless and dirt-cheap availability of the incomparable Mauser 98 bolt action, and developed everything to fit in it.

This explains why, for example, the 10,75x68 (.423) or the 11,2x72 (.440) shot light bullets for their caliber (~350 gr), which lacked sectional density and therefore penetration (regardless of bullets construction - another factor at play), because case capacity was simply too small...

Schuler corrected this to a point with his extra fat 12.7x70, which was good enough that the Brits renamed it the .500 Jeffery, but its rebated rim forever made it difficult to chamber from a staggered column, and the Schuler rifle had to forego the Mauser magazine and use a single column magazine, which reduced capacity.

The Brits, not having a bolt action capable to rival the Mauser 98 -- do not ever try to fire a DG cartridge from a SMLE (Short Magazine Lee Enfield) action !!! -- had no other choice than to develop the double rifle - and this they did to perfection - which is likely the best type of action, aside from the single shot, to launch large diameter, heavy bullets, because cases can be as long and as fat as needed to contain all the propellant required ... and actually case size was promptly recognized as a critical factor in reducing pressure, which was a God-sent for double rifle actions makers.

British large bore / large case rifle cartridges only appeared just before World War One, after Mauser's British agent, Rigby, convinced the factory to create a new action, the fabled 98 Magnum to solve the case capacity limitation imposed by the standard 98 action. Had Mauser refused, it is likely the .416 Rigby, .505 Gibbs, etc. would have never existed.

So, WWI historic and imperial consequences are certainly at play, but it is my belief that the lack of a British action comparable to the Mauser 98 was also a critical factor, and maybe the predominant factor (?), in the development of the Nitro Express family of double rifle cartridges.

The usual supply & demand market factor

In addition, Germany lacked the British social class that was the primary market for the British double rifle development: the wealthy safari-going Victorian gentry who only conceived of using best-quality rifles. German colonists, like British colonists by the way, were perfectly happy with the dirt-cheap, rock-solid, life-dependable Mauser in 7x57 and 9.3x62 and did not have the financial means to purchase exquisite, delicate works of gun-making art. To them, the rifle was a tool, not a social status marker, and shooting African game was part of a day's work, not a fashionable entertainment.

And indeed history...

And indeed, after World War One, and again after World War Two, there was no real market for German gun makers to use themselves the Mauser 98 Magnum action, not even considering its paucity, because Germany had lost its colonies and everything that lived in continental Europe could be adequately dispatched with calibers fitting comfortably in the standard Mauser action.

Few in America realize it, but probably as many, or more (?), 9.3x62 have been (and still are) sold in Europe for Wild Boar drives as in Africa.
 
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Do not forget that the dubious ban on .450 hunting cartridges in India and the Sudan accounted for a sudden growth in proprietary cartridges that did not fit a .450 bore diameter barrel.
 
I also think that the greater number of English colonies is the reason why the English big guns are the most recognized, as well as the German defeats and the British trade links.
Especially since they are almost the only ones to have made calibers for double rifles with the nitro express.
Afterwards I think that in these calibers below (bolt action) there is not really a significant difference.
I mean caliber quality/design, bullet quality is another topic.
- 275 rigby vs 7x57..., 7x64
- 318 westley richards, 333 jeffery vs 8x57js, 8x60s, 8x64s.
- 300 hh vs 8x68s
- 350 rigby, 375 hh vs 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 9.3x70
- 404 jeffery, 416 rigby, 425 westley richards vs 11.2x72 shuler, possibly 10.75x68.
- 505 gibbs, 500 jeffery vs 12.7x70 shuler (500 jeffery...)
Beyond 500 (577 and 600) is this really necessary? I don't know at all.
The Germans also had their calibers which were very serious and which had an equivalence in imperial measurement.
Personally, I really like the 6.5x55/57 metric and the 3 Brenneke calibers, 7x64, 8x64s and especially 9.3x64.
I suppose the 11.2x72 must be exceptional from what I've read.
In imperial, I would really like the 333 jeffery as well as the 404 J or 425 WR.
 

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