Why all the hate for CBL (Captive-Bred Lion) Hunting?

[375Fox]

"released a few days ago"

You're making assumptions that do not hold true for everyone. When I thought I was going to be pursuing a CBL hunt this year (damn divorce!) I had discussions with a LOT of sponsors on this site that conduct such hunts. There was a wide range of answers for when the lions were released prior to a hunt, and in many cases it was a LOT more than just days.

Also, living where I do in Alaska I can make the same claim: I have experienced remote, wild conditions many can only dream of - true, undiluted wilderness. I love it. And given the chance, I will someday select who I believe will be the best outfitter for me and participate in a lion hunt I can afford, assuming the opportunities are still there.

While I might believe a few of them, it’s Interesting that the vast majority of CBL hunts are done in NW province that also has the shortest legal release times. I wonder why that is? It’s a dishonest industry.

 

[Certus]

My wife calls me when she sees a snake in the yard! No idea what she would do about a bear or moose!

My wife’s legally a snake catcher so no issues there.
If we have a bear or moose in the yard here in Australia I’m sure there’ll be plenty of questions though!

 

[Hunt anything]

My wife’s legally a snake catcher so no issues there.
If we have a bear or moose in the yard here in Australia I’m sure there’ll be plenty of questions though!

Do you actually have to have a license to catch snakes in Australia?

 

[VertigoBE]

Respectfully that is not really the discussion I think. But to go with the analogy. Raising the whitetail or sable in a small pen, as in not being a habitat to live in and then release it 72 hours before the hunt begins.

Then also being the only whitetail or sable in that area. This would be a better example.

I make no argument before or against CBL hunting but people have to know the facts before going the CBL route. CBL hunting is often more romanticized than what actually does take place.

I would have to agree.

I've seen raised Sable, coming to eat from your hand. Saw one getting shot at 20m, it did not even run or look away. The others around also didn't react to their brother getting 3 rounds in 2 minutes in the kill zone before collapsing. It was the most disgusting thing in hunting I have seen.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I certainly can understand your position on CBL hunting but I cannot agree with your analogy. Have observed CBL enclosures during feeding, CBL are not benign towards humans like the animals you mentioned. Go ahead and enter a CBL enclosure. You would end up exactly like the carcasses that are fed to them, exposed rib cage and all. I cannot imagine a more horrifying way to die.

And lions and tigers have killed people in zoos. Doesn't it still come down to the game not being afraid of the hunter?

 

[Hunt anything]

And lions and tigers have killed people in zoos. Doesn't it still come down to the game not being afraid of the hunter?

I have also seen where a scimitar horned oryx killed a rancher in Texas a few years ago. Take away any animals fear of people and they become dangerous.

 

[Sabre]

Some of the mental gymnastics from a couple people who say they would never hunt some high fence animal like that because it isn't sporting, after posting pictures or stories to this site of their high fence hunts, is olympics level impressive.

 

[Flbt]

Stressing animals before shooting them is not my thing. I get it that proper management for some species requires hound hunting and baiting. I'm glad someone enjoys it. Just not for me.

I shoot geese over decoys but I assure you if there was more jump shooting available, my decoys would be in the dumpster. I'm really not into sitting in ambush. Posession limit on honkers is now as many as I can shove in a warehouse. They seriously need managing! My dogs find uplands and I suppose that does stress the birds momentarily. But with all the coyotes around, the birds must be used to it. Bears and cougars being chased by hounds is entirely unnatural. Must be a novel and frightening experience for them. I guess there's something wrong with me having some semblance of a conscience.

Not a double standard. The cow I culled my first safari was 25 years old. She was born on that property, not dropped out of a trailer a few weeks before. The herd was extremely wary and the bull came for us three times after I dropped granny. That hunt was more than I expected (but my knowledge of buffalo disposition was obviously limited). Maybe a "wild" hunt in Zimbabwe or Tanzania would have been better but for $3K and all the excitement, this was satisfactory.
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As someone the grew up hound hunting.
The old houndsMen said at least what we are hunting knows something after it.
It not cold blooded murder like stalk or stand hunting.
They really ment that.
I just was fine with what ever was leagle.
Simple ethics are yours and ethics are mine
They probably will never match up completely.
You think yours are right and more important
I think the same

Thats why judging on ethics is a personal thing.
Because there no set definition of ethics for anything

I have killed hogs and steers in a pen hunting no butchering yea
Do I have a ethics problem with it no.

Have hunted hogs feral with dogs and set over a field to me the same
But using a knife and dogs produce a adrenaline rush

I have hunted deer over bait and over a clover field I honestly see no real difference

But that’s me

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Some of the mental gymnastics from a couple people who say they would never hunt some high fence animal like that because it isn't sporting, after posting pictures or stories to this site of their high fence hunts, is olympics level impressive.

Examples? Just curious.

High fence factor has never been a critique of CBL. Unless you’re talking about the enclosure it was raised in.

High fence HAS been something that CBL supporters try to muddy the waters with…

 

[CBeck]

I think this quote from Ron Spomer pretty well sums it up for me….

I hesitate to call hunting a game because it is not a frivolous pastime. It is our most honest and natural way to gather sustenance, both material and spiritual. In doing this we are free to select how we shall hunt: long range rifles and laser range-finding scopes or lever-action 30-30s with open sights or flintlock muzzleloaders, bows, spears, slingshots… Within the laws, rules, and regulations of our various states we are free to draw a line in the sand and play the hunting “game” as we wish.

 

[BJH65]

And lions and tigers have killed people in zoos. Doesn't it still come down to the game not being afraid of the hunter?

There was a time in North America, Africa and other countries where wild animals had little fear of man until the advent of market hunting, sport hunting, etc. The bighorn sheep in Montana I used to encounter had zero fear of man, only wolves and mountain lions because so few tags are drawn, so they are simply unafraid of man due to very minimal hunting pressure. It would not be hard to kill a nice ram if you drew a tag in the area we lived.

In the case of an animal that is extremely dangerous and may try to kill you as opposed to a pet like herbivore, I do see a difference. But, in regard to say a fenced in farm raised sable unafraid of hunters, I concede your point.

Some very distinguished and notable hunters on this forum aren’t all in mutual agreement on CBL hunting. Some tenured AH members probably have no interest in rehashing this again either.

Look, some may be of the mistaken believe I’m a big proponent of CBL hunting, I am not. We return to Limpopo for trophy buffalo in 2026 and I’d like to add another DG animal to the menu, perhaps hippo on land, non exportable elephant and/or I considered CBL under certain parameters, maybe a lioness since CBL aren’t exportable to the U.S.

But, CBL is somewhat of a dilemma to me, I go back and forth on whether I should, and if this is the case, if there’s that much internal struggle, therein lies my answer.

 

[HankBuck]

Double standards......
You hunted bred buffalo on a fenced area......

Some species can only be hunted using bait.....
As for hunting over hounds.....one of the most exciting hunts you can do. Try bushpig or caracal over hounds and then report back.

IvW - agree and somehow they rationalize a “Fence is OK” but Not Dogs —-or “Dogs are OK for birds” But Not Mountain Lion —- or at least Not a Mountain Lion in a Tree? And a Pen raised Lion is “Not ok” but hunting Pen raised Pheasant WITH A DOG “is OK” (unless they go in a Tree??). There are a lot of personal decisions people make and then apply “their standards” for everyone — some of those Hunters are at least consistent but others (like the Post your Quoted) flip flop all over

 

[HankBuck]

While I might believe a few of them, it’s Interesting that the vast majority of CBL hunts are done in NW province that also has the shortest legal release times. I wonder why that is? It’s a dishonest industry.

@375 Fox - You may have good reason to be very suspicious of those Outfitters claims “Released a month before and now lion hunting on it’s own” etc.. What else are they gonna say “We let him out this morning, if we hurry you can get him as he gets out of the Truck”? Obviously there may be some outfitters that release days or weeks early but others might release as early as law allows (or earlier)…there’s No way to know for sure.