Why all the hate for CBL (Captive-Bred Lion) Hunting?

[Hunt anything]

@375Fox , watched that video this morning it was outstanding. Shame there isn’t more wild places devoid of human habitation that the lions can’t be reintroduced.
As stated before, humans don’t want to live with dangerous predators or animals for that matter. Most recently in my memory the attempt by the USFWS to reintroduce grizzly bear to western Washington state.

 

[HankBuck]

Great story.
Fresh out of school, saved the money and go hunting!
Probably young and not married?

At that time, of my age, I cared for nothing but adventure.

But now, on the other hand, I could not justify to my family ,kids at college, wife at home, spending 50, 100 k, on a hunt, not even successful if that happens.
So, I just go on a hunts I can pay for, without affecting my family standards. Last being, cape buffalo in Caprivi.
But wild lion is out of my range. CBL I am not interested in. And, as I said earlier, I wouldn't mind hunting wild non exportable lion, for acceptable price, for experience, memory and adventure. Trophy is no longer my main goal.
In the same time, I understand why many hunters opt for CBL. I have nothing against their decision.

@Mark-hunter— you have nicely summed up the balance I’ve tried to strike between MY Hunting expenses and My Family & Kids priorities…Family comes first ! And I can live happily without ever taking a Lion

 

[WAB]

Six pages and counting, I’m sure we’ll get this resolved here shortly.
I believe that each hunter has a right to take an animal in a legal fashion that fits their own level of expectation.
For myself, I enjoy the challenge of hunting animals in a wild non-fenced environment.
Here’s a pic of a wild lion I shot in Zambia. It was a fantastic hunt and the cost today has doubled since this hunt in 2018.
View attachment 668308

HH

Very impressive HH!

 

[WAB]

@375Fox , watched that video this morning it was outstanding. Shame there isn’t more wild places devoid of human habitation that the lions can’t be reintroduced.
As stated before, humans don’t want to live with dangerous predators or animals for that matter. Most recently in my memory the attempt by the USFWS to reintroduce grizzly bear to western Washington state.

LOL, my wife called me at work one day to ask what to do about the brown bear in our yard. I gave her three options; stay in the house, shoot it, or call the cops and they would shoot it. You kind of get used to it after a while. Honestly, I think a cow moose with a calf is likely more dangerous than a grizzly. When she lays her ears back you’d better get your ass ready!

 

[Hunt anything]

LOL, my wife called me at work one day to ask what to do about the brown bear in our yard. I gave her three options; stay in the house, shoot it, or call the cops and they would shoot it. You kind of get used to it after a while. Honestly, I think a cow moose with a calf is likely more dangerous than a grizzly. When she lays her ears back you’d better get your ass ready!

My wife calls me when she sees a snake in the yard! No idea what she would do about a bear or moose!

 

[Datchew]

To me, the least convincing argument ever against CBL is that the lion is somehow too special and majestic to hunt certain ways, and they deserve some higher level than other animals.

That just reminds me of people who are okay with hunting deer and elk, but are suddenly very anti-hunting when it comes to mountain lion, bears, bobcats, wolves, etc. If your morals about who is a "monster" for hunting are based on how cute the animal seems to you, then your morals aren't very reliable in a conversation about true conservation.

I find this bit quite interesting. There does seem to be a hierarchy of importance that determines where people fall on different issues with different animals.

I'm primarily a meat hunter but if the landowner has rules to kill bobcat or coyote on sight, I'll honor that and take care of them.
My wife will say things like "why did you kill that beautiful bobcat when you're not going to eat it?"
I ask her if she plans to grill or fry the roaches she stomps on outside at night when letting the dogs out. For some reason... i never win that argument. Puzzling.

 

[HankBuck]

Six pages and counting, I’m sure we’ll get this resolved here shortly.
I believe that each hunter has a right to take an animal in a legal fashion that fits their own level of expectation.
For myself, I enjoy the challenge of hunting animals in a wild non-fenced environment.
Here’s a pic of a wild lion I shot in Zambia. It was a fantastic hunt and the cost today has doubled since this hunt in 2018.
View attachment 668308

HH

@Hunting Hitman - that’s a great wild lion and you must’ve been very pleased with that one !!

 

[BRICKBURN]

If you truly want to see the rinse and repeat of this "discussion"

Use Google and you can find EVERYTHING on AH.

????????? site:africahunting.com


Captive bred Lion
CBL
Ranch Lion
South Africa Lion
SAPA

 

[mdwest]

My wife calls me when she sees a snake in the yard! No idea what she would do about a bear or moose!

I got called because there was a mouse in my wifes deer blind..

A moose would send her into orbit...

(especially if she found it in her deer blind)

 

[Dhutson]

Basically it has nothing to do with hunting as a traditional experience. Its buying something from a store. Nothing wrong with it just don't call it hunting. It is no different than shooting pen raised birds, or genetically altered whitetail deer in a high fence environment, fed year around with feeders.

Again, nothing wrong with it and most of us have done it. I just has nothing to do with the tradition of the hunting experience. You can buy a relationship by the hour in Las Vegas, You just don't call it a marriage.

 

[Tom Leoni]

I am 100% with @Hunter-Habib on this, and not just because he argues as one of the very few who has hunted lion both captive-bred and in the wild.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in ever killing a lion, also because doing so would feel like going against a member of my family (given my last name). But as long as 1) the practice of CBL keeps lion population healthy and 2) CBL remains financially accessible to more than just 7-figure earners and 3) the hunt itself is conducted ethically and humanely, I don't see what the problem is.

Again, it would not be my bag--as wouldn't be hunting lion in the wild. But as someone who has shot pen-raised pheasant (I'm in Virginia) at a time when even wild ones are becoming scarce in the Dakotas, I don't have a philosophical problem with CBL.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I hunt behind fences in South Africa and here in North America. The difference being the species I hunt here are not contained by the fences. In South Africa some species are difficult if not nearly impossible to contain with fences. My largest kudu was shot on a property of 167K acres. The day after taking him the property owner showed me a snapshot taken a few weeks earlier of the bull standing in the road on the other side of the gate ... OUTSIDE his property. In any event, I only hunt species that are either free ranging (e.g. kudu and warthog) or maintained through breeding on the property. I killed/culled a fine bull gemsbuck on my last safari that had been on the property for at least six years. Time to get him out of there before he starts breeding his own progeny. There's a big difference between hunting a caged lion released a few days ago and a gemsbuck that's been on the range for years, especially if the gemsbuck has experienced years of hunting pressure. It may not be 100% "wild" conditions but certainly wild enough for me ... and I have experienced wild conditions in North America that most guys today can only dream about.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

LOL, my wife called me at work one day to ask what to do about the brown bear in our yard. I gave her three options; stay in the house, shoot it, or call the cops and they would shoot it. You kind of get used to it after a while. Honestly, I think a cow moose with a calf is likely more dangerous than a grizzly. When she lays her ears back you’d better get your ass ready!

Yep. It's usually not going to be a bluff charge ... unless you're up a tree.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I am 100% with @Hunter-Habib on this, and not just because he argues as one of the very few who has hunted lion both captive-bred and in the wild.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in ever killing a lion, also because doing so would feel like going against a member of my family (given my last name). But as long as 1) the practice of CBL keeps lion population healthy and 2) CBL remains financially accessible to more than just 7-figure earners and 3) the hunt itself is conducted ethically and humanely, I don't see what the problem is.

Again, it would not be my bag--as wouldn't be hunting lion in the wild. But as someone who has shot pen-raised pheasant (I'm in Virginia) at a time when even wild ones are becoming scarce in the Dakotas, I don't have a philosophical problem with CBL.

If someone raises a kudu in a pen for the entirety of its life then releases it a week prior to a hunter arriving and then it’s ethically hunted it would still be wrong. Whether or not the actual hunt itself is ethical or not is not the core issue..

Again, affordability does not justify it…..

People argue that it keeps pressure off wild populations. I don’t think that’s entirely true. The market is still there and people in different areas or countries are still going to try and participate in that market..

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Ethics definitely take back seat to affordability and desires..

 

[IvW]

A hundred posts on this thread. Kinda amazing. Seems a no brainer. I could never get any kind of satisfaction looking at a "trophy" harvested in that way. Or anything shot in a trap or over bait or out of a tree over dogs. Just not my thing.

Double standards......
You hunted bred buffalo on a fenced area......

Some species can only be hunted using bait.....
As for hunting over hounds.....one of the most exciting hunts you can do. Try bushpig or caracal over hounds and then report back.

 

[Hunt anything]

Ethics definitely take back seat to affordability and desires..

In some maybe, I could afford a CBL but my morals say I shouldn’t.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Double standards......
You hunted bred buffalo on a fenced area......

Some species can only be hunted using bait.....
As for hunting over hounds.....one of the most exciting hunts you can do. Try bushpig or caracal over hounds and then report back.

Stressing animals before shooting them is not my thing. I get it that proper management for some species requires hound hunting and baiting. I'm glad someone enjoys it. Just not for me.

I shoot geese over decoys but I assure you if there was more jump shooting available, my decoys would be in the dumpster. I'm really not into sitting in ambush. Posession limit on honkers is now as many as I can shove in a warehouse. They seriously need managing! My dogs find uplands and I suppose that does stress the birds momentarily. But with all the coyotes around, the birds must be used to it. Bears and cougars being chased by hounds is entirely unnatural. Must be a novel and frightening experience for them. I guess there's something wrong with me having some semblance of a conscience.

Not a double standard. The cow I culled my first safari was 25 years old. She was born on that property, not dropped out of a trailer a few weeks before. The herd was extremely wary and the bull came for us three times after I dropped granny. That hunt was more than I expected (but my knowledge of buffalo disposition was obviously limited). Maybe a "wild" hunt in Zimbabwe or Tanzania would have been better but for $3K and all the excitement, this was satisfactory.

 

[revturbo9967]

I have nothing to add to this other than I'm hoping I can hunt wild Lion as well as Elephant before I turn 50. The current conditions are most likely going to change for the worse regarding hunting in Africa, but I'm putting it somewhere in the cards.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I hunt behind fences in South Africa and here in North America. The difference being the species I hunt here are not contained by the fences. In South Africa some species are difficult if not nearly impossible to contain with fences. My largest kudu was shot on a property of 167K acres. The day after taking him the property owner showed me a snapshot taken a few weeks earlier of the bull standing in the road on the other side of the gate ... OUTSIDE his property. In any event, I only hunt species that are either free ranging (e.g. kudu and warthog) or maintained through breeding on the property. I killed/culled a fine bull gemsbuck on my last safari that had been on the property for at least six years. Time to get him out of there before he starts breeding his own progeny. There's a big difference between hunting a caged lion released a few days ago and a gemsbuck that's been on the range for years, especially if the gemsbuck has experienced years of hunting pressure. It may not be 100% "wild" conditions but certainly wild enough for me ... and I have experienced wild conditions in North America that most guys today can only dream about.

"released a few days ago"

You're making assumptions that do not hold true for everyone. When I thought I was going to be pursuing a CBL hunt this year (damn divorce!) I had discussions with a LOT of sponsors on this site that conduct such hunts. There was a wide range of answers for when the lions were released prior to a hunt, and in many cases it was a LOT more than just days.

Also, living where I do in Alaska I can make the same claim: I have experienced remote, wild conditions many can only dream of - true, undiluted wilderness. I love it. And given the chance, I will someday select who I believe will be the best outfitter for me and participate in a lion hunt I can afford, assuming the opportunities are still there.