Who’s done it? Cape buffalo or elephant with traditional large bore muzzleloader?

[Certus]

I don't think one can carry black powder or substitutes on an airplane. So, that would have to be sourced locally.

How does that go with blackpowder loaded cartridges? Like could you just load sealed rounds like a 4 bore cartridge but disassemble them when over there for components?

 

[Sarg]

@fourfive8
Yes, I also read this one. But the article I was referring to, featured a gentleman named Turner Kirkland (owner of Dixie Gun Works) who attempted to use a 4 gauge William Rawbone muzzle loading double rifle on an elephant in Rhodesia. This was also featured in one of the early Lyman books.

I think I also read of Mr Kirkland shooting an Elephant with a single barrel ML of .91 caliber & it didn’t work out so well ?

I will need to dig around for that one.

We have had a few hunters want to kill Buffalo with a ML or just BP guns in general most of these are just to get some type of award & don’t care how they do it really, it’s no great problem to us, we shoot a lot of wounded animals from cartridge guns - Modern bolts - Double rifles (a lot) - Pistol shooters (a lot) Bowhunters (a lot more) Spear hunters (even more) so most experienced PHs are used to stopping wounded game both coming in & leaving .

Actually on some hunts it’s a surprise when the hunter finally shoots & kills his animal cleanly !!

 

[Sarg]

How does that go with blackpowder loaded cartridges? Like could you just load sealed rounds like a 4 bore cartridge but disassemble them when over there for components?

This has been done but in this day & age it is a ticket to doing time or at least court time & expense !

You need in most cases to be traveling with the caliber of firearm that your ammunition is for, so 8ga/bore individual cases loaded up with BP won’t work unless you have a 8 bore firearm with you, 4 bore would be the same.

It is not the free to do or cheat a bit world it was even 5yrs ago !!

 

[Certus]

This has been done but in this day & age it is a ticket to doing time or at least court time & expense !

You need in most cases to be traveling with the caliber of firearm that your ammunition is for, so 8ga/bore individual cases loaded up with BP won’t work unless you have a 8 bore firearm with you, 4 bore would be the same.

It is not the free to do or cheat a bit world it was even 5yrs ago !!

Ah yes I forgot about the whole cartridges to match rifle thing.

 

[baxterb]

Why anyone would try a 58cal muzzle loader on an elephant escapes me.

Because he had a 458 Win Mag within reach ;-)

 

[Sarg]

Because he had a 458 Win Mag within reach ;-)

Also someone to shoot it properly as his WR Double .458/.450NE was heading off with the gunbearer it seems ?

 

[Ridge Runner]

Yes, Selous beginning in 1871 through about 1881. He used a 4 bore loaded with a 1750 gr lead round ball over about 410 gr of coarse grade BP. He later lamented ever using that gun as he swore the recoil ruined his shooting ability because of the recoil. His tracker once double charged it just before shooting an elephant with the resulting recoil causing severe lacerations and breaking the stock. This info is from: A Hunter’s Wanderings In Africa by Selous, pgs 73 & 111.

Rule #1 in Loading/Reloading a Muzzleloader: Never, Never, let someone reload your firearm without supervision. And if such intent is for the owner to fire such loaded firearm.

Rule #1 at the range: Never, Never allow yourself to be so distracted to not finishing loading/reloaded your muzzleloader that you; double load or charge, forget to powder charge and seat your projectile, or leaving in and firing your ramrod out the barrel.

However, It is okay to teach someone the skills in loading/reloading a muzzleloader and to let them, once they become somewhat skilled in the use of the muzzleloader, to be afforded the shooting experience while being observed at a comfortable reactionary distance. If they do something inappropriate they can be stopped and questioned before anything goes wrong. Or they can learn from a bad experience, not to have that same "brain fart" in the future.

Okay, I'm going to say no further violations of the various Rule #1's in loading, shooting, handling, safety, maintenance, etc, of side lock muzzleloaders need any further discussions or examples.

I don't think one can carry black powder or substitutes on an airplane. So, that would have to be sourced locally.

Correct.
Black Powder and substitutes are considered explosives.

Not sure, possibly in the "gray" area, but caps and primers could also be considered explosives, as these are also hazmat items.

Check with @Gert Odendaal and your outfitter/PH if they can locally source these items. Especially with @Gert Odendaal for the best/better quality local brands.

 

[Ridge Runner]

How does that go with blackpowder loaded cartridges? Like could you just load sealed rounds like a 4 bore cartridge but disassemble them when over there for components?

Could possibly, but as much as we complain about SAPS's lack of understanding. I'm pretty sure one of them would ask about how to load a cartridge into a front end loader. And check the caliber/cartridge to rifle.

Of course if one was importing a BP cartridge rifle and the cartridge caliber matched if checked it would most likely pass through SAPS.

Edit: Just getting caught up on threads read where others posted the same advice/info. That should be some strong advice.

 

[Huvius]

How does that go with blackpowder loaded cartridges? Like could you just load sealed rounds like a 4 bore cartridge but disassemble them when over there for components?

I'd think that would require you to bring both a cartridge rifle AND a muzzle loading rifle of the same caliber.
Pull the ball, pour out the powder and snap the primer in the gun - who's to know?

Not all that long ago, iirc, SA hosted the LRML World Championship so one would assume that some quality components, powder & caps, are available in SA.

Because he had a 458 Win Mag within reach ;-)

Same to be said of every DG bow hunt.
I'm glad Sarge detailed that above.

 

[Dirtdart]

I have been digging through copies of Blackpowder Hunting to see if I could find anything on this topic. Many articles about hunters of old, plains game, and cats. Modern .72 on Buffalo.

 

[Certus]

Thank you muchly.

 

[Certus]

@Dirtdart just had time to read the article you posted. Fantastic read! Thanks so much for posting it. And that’s with a 12 bore, too. Plus an Eland with a 20 bore.

 

[Dirtdart]

@Dirtdart just had time to read the article you posted. Fantastic read! Thanks so much for posting it. And that’s with a 12 bore, too. Plus an Eland with a 20 bore.

You are most welcome.

 

[Certus]

Sounds like a 12 bore on up to say an 8 or maybe a 6 is good for cape buff, probably start for ele at an 8 and go 6 or 4. And make sure to hunt areas not near borders if possible..

 

[Travis2282]

I remember watching hung jim shockey kill an elephant with his tc encore muzzy.

 

[50Gunner]

I have not, but were I too try, I'd use my Steve Zihn 8 Bore percussion black powder rifle, the standard load is a pure lead .805" round ball that patches up to .820" with pillow ticking patches, 300 grains 2F chrono 1400 fps.

To address the OP's question, I'd cast the balls with 22 BHN alloy, a hard ball if you will, lay out some files on a hard table, very firmly palm roll the hard ball across the flat files to score them so they wont slip the patch, then charge the rifle with a full 400 grains 2F, velocity should be in the 1600 fps range, with the ball being slightly lighter and smaller in diameter due to the harder alloy.

Chronograph to verify speed, then have it set up with your PH to have available black powder in the country you intend to hunt as well as a chronograph, build a load in the bush as close to or equal the one you built at home, check accuracy, load up and go hunt.

I have fired 400 grains under the standard pure lead ball load so I know the rifle can easily handle it, your shoulder, retinas, rotator cuffs and custom dental work is a completely different matter ; ]

800 grain ball
300 grains powder
1400 fps
10LB rifle

Feels to me like it kicks near twice as hard as my 13.5 LB 577 double with 750's at 2069 fps, an extra 100 grains of black powder would increase recoil dramatically.

These giant bore black powder rifles are not for the faint of heart.