What do PH’s like to see for sights on Dangerous Game

[Red Leg]

My friend and favorite PH in the Delta of Mozambique says the single most frightening thing in his rather considerable experience is a client after his first buffalo with his new, open-sighted double rifle.

 

[Nhoro]

I do not know of anyone who would claim to be more accurate with open sights than scope. So it makes sense that PH's would want you to put your best foot forward.

I grew up shooting open sights in endless airgun competitions with my brother. We still do it 40 years on, with our kids joining in now. But I shoot better with a scope.

That said, I think if you shoot well and often with open sights, and are competent then there is nothing wrong with open sights. And I would bet money that very few forum members can hit a 5" plate at 100 m with a big bore and open sights.

 

[Nhoro]

If you haven’t read this article, it’s very informative. He talks about scope use as well.

Is Bigger Always Better?

I thought this group may enjoy this article I wrote in the latest African Gazette. A link to that particular issue (of which Divan Labuschagne, one of our great PHs, also took the cover picture): Let me know your thoughts....

www.africahunting.com

This is a good article. Really factual and straightforward.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Every client and every PH is different. Remember a PH has to be everything to each and every client and just because he tells you "your rifle with such and such sighting is just perfect" does not mean that he is really is thinking. We have two regular clients who shoot nothing but iron sights no matter what game they are hunting. So far neither of them have ever missed a shot. My recommendation is shoot what you not only shoot the best but what you are the most comfortable with.

 

[zephyr]

Every client and every PH is different. Remember a PH has to be everything to each and every client and just because he tells you "your rifle with such and such sighting is just perfect" does not mean that he is really is thinking. We have two regular clients who shoot nothing but iron sights no matter what game they are hunting. So far neither of them have ever missed a shot. My recommendation is shoot what you not only shoot the best but what you are the most comfortable with.

Thank You

 

[uplander01]

I've been shooting both open sights and scoped rigs for 35 years and IMO if your eyes are good and you shoot/practice a lot it comes down to choice of shots. Personally at this point in my hunting career its all about putting myself in the exact position I want at close range and using open sights. I try and describe it as hunting at archery ranges with a big bore. But I'm always keeping myself in really good physical shape, I hand load and have lots of supplies, which enables me prepare for and to hunt this way. I realize that isn't possible for everyone. All this being said earlier in my life it was largely about success and stackin' em up,....now I could go on a 2 week safari and if my PH and I weren't able to get in the right position for what I'm looking to do, it would have no bearing on my view of success as long as we were doing the work. And I might be the odd duck in that I have a real nostalgic view of vintage rifles and I like to work them out and take them afield. My next hunt is this summer for buffalo, and I'm using a 100 year old best quality english double. Honestly shoot it better that any bolt rifle I have off sticks, scope or no scope, can't explain it, could be a combination of the weight, balance, triggers are unreal, and I had JJ Perodeau redo the rear blade HH style....it just all works together. All of that and I've probably put 300+ rounds though it so far preparing, and will probably put 200 more through before its go time.

 

[lockingblock]

Whichever way you go, a basic shooting class is a solid investment for a lifetime of shooting that you intend to do.

The hard truth is that the vast majority of hunters are poor shooters and the vast majority of shooters don't hunt.

When you watch guys check optics after arriving at camp, it is frightening how many guys display horrible form, bad habits, inability to shoot a simple group, no knowledge of what a proper rest looks like...and so on. Heck, watch guys yank their head up when they shoot...that cheek should be on the stock and in line with the optic, both during and after the shot. Picking your head up is 101 level wrong...and almost everyone does it.

A basic class would solve a lot if misses.

 

[DWB]

I sometimes wonder how well the PHes shoot their open sighted rifles that the clients so eagerly gamble their lives on

I'd like to think we should be able to keep our own butts safe out there as well.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

No PH ever got upset when their client pulled out a scoped .375 for a DG hunt.

My friend and I went on a hunt last year in a highly regulated area. The reserve representative, who was also a ph, asked us what we were shooting. My buddy said .375 with a scope. Guy says Great!!! I said .500/.416 double open sights, and he let out a groan. Lol. The guy was watching me like a hawk when we went to confirm zero on our rifles the next morning. Once he saw that I could shoot and handle the double his attitude changed. He had obviously had some bad experiences in the past.

Would the PH have been happier if you had a red dot sight?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Reason why scope is preffered is so that the first time buffalo hunter can see what he is shooting at.
Buffalo tend to like thicker stuff and shade on the black animal does not help. Add a black recticle on a black hide and you still struggle sometimes so a illuminated dot or clealy visible reticle will be of great help.

But then again you could find your dream bull in an open field casually feeding past you.

Saw it this past week again when helping out on a buffalo as backup fist time hunter struggling to find a shot opportunity as the bull was not keeping still or standing broadside. Although there was a scope on the 375 he was not sure what he was aiming at when the bull kept standing behind bushes or under trees. When he was in the open he would keep on moving clever old bastard but they finally found him Saturday and I missed out. Had to leave Sat morning with all the rain we had bush was wet and quiet wind was good and the bull never noticed the hunters and gave a good side on opportunity.

With more experience on buffalo you will have a beter idea where to aim when knowing your buffalo siloutette but even then with open sights or reflex you will not be able to see branches and other obstacles clearly in front of the buffalo when standing in thick stuff.

View attachment 461665

Notice everything is wet.

That is a very nice buff, worth the wait.

 

[lockingblock]

hichever way you go, a basic shooting class is a solid investment for a lifetime of shooting that you intend to do.

Would the PH have been happier if you had a red dot sight?

It's interesting, having come from a more black rifle background....Red Dots are a serious capability enhancement, but only when paired with a magnifier. The LaRue flip mount for the Aimpoint mag, the EO Tech flip mount...it's an awesome capability to go from 0 power with a red dot to 3x with that same dot, at the flick of your wrist. I carried my M-4 like that for years, across two deployments and validated it real world.


Yet, you don't see the magnifier much in hunting. Strange. Likely due to mounting options.

 

[Qc_BearHunter]

A rather salty PH once told me when he had a new client show up with open sights or a double it was almost certain he would get some shooting in. Dude had been in the game a long time.

That's what I see on many hunting videos. Hunters and PH shooting a lot of lead from their doubles.

And most filmed one shot kills on buffalos are with scoped rifles.

I'm going buffalo hunting in next june. I'll use my scope on the first shot from my 375 H&H, then remove the scope and use sights it if any tracking is needed.

 

[375Fox]

That's what I see on many hunting videos. Hunters and PH shooting a lot of lead from their doubles.

And most filmed one shot kills on buffalos are with scoped rifles.

I'm going buffalo hunting in next june. I'll use my scope on the first shot from my 375 H&H, then remove the scope and use sights it if any tracking is needed.

I’d talk to your PH at time of your hunt about removing your scope for follow up. To me a scope is just as valuable on follow up as on the initial shot. The chances of a charge are very low compared to the chance of a fast breaking shot at 50 yards or it being held up in heavy brush ahead of you. If you are better with a scope than open sights, it gives you a better chance to get in a quality follow up shot if you didn’t place the first correctly.

 

[Graham Hunter]

I was old school. Scope or iron sights. However a couple of years ago I was finding it harder to use open sights. So I went new school and bought a Red Dot. Now I have 3. I find them very accurate and very effective to use. Fast acquisition and still able to view everything in front of me. I have one on my 416 Rem but also have the iron sights sighted in just in case.

 

[sureshot375]

Would the PH have been happier if you had a red dot sight?

Hard to say. His concern seemed to be as much about the larger caliber in a double as the lack of scope. A red dot takes out the sight alignment part of the equation, but doesn’t have the magnification to aid with precise shot placement.

 

[Scott CWO]

It's interesting, having come from a more black rifle background....Red Dots are a serious capability enhancement, but only when paired with a magnifier. The LaRue flip mount for the Aimpoint mag, the EO Tech flip mount...it's an awesome capability to go from 0 power with a red dot to 3x with that same dot, at the flick of your wrist. I carried my M-4 like that for years, across two deployments and validated it real world.


Yet, you don't see the magnifier much in hunting. Strange. Likely due to mounting options.

Can you post a picture? Or a link? Sounds interesting.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Those magnifiers are an add-on and you almost get back to a scope type size. Not a good looking arrangement either. I am sure that with the advancement of technology you will soon be able to buy a very small red dot scope with a single claw mount, maybe 3 power, thats all doubles and DG rifles need.

 

[RockSlinger404]

I sometimes wonder how well the PHes shoot their open sighted rifles that the clients so eagerly gamble their lives on

I'd like to think we should be able to keep our own butts safe out there as well.

My exact thoughts!!! I've never seen a PH double check he's rifle's zero.

 

[lockingblock]

hichever way you go, a basic shooting class is a solid investment for a lifetime of shooting that you intend to do.

Would the PH have been happier if you had a red dot sight?

It's interesting, having come from a more black rifle background....Red Dots are a serious capability enhancement, but only when paired with a magnifier. The LaRue flip mount for the Aimpoint mag, the EO Tech flip mount...it's an awesome capability to go from 0 power with a red dot to 3x with that same dot, at the flick of your wrist. I carried my M-4 like that for years, across two deployments and validated it real world.


Yet, you don't see the magnifier much in hunting. Strange. Likely due to mounting options.

Can you post a picture? Or a link? Sounds interesting.

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-qd-pivot-mount-tall-lt755/

 

[Forrest Halley]

I sometimes wonder how well the PHes shoot their open sighted rifles that the clients so eagerly gamble their lives on

I'd like to think we should be able to keep our own butts safe out there as well.

Thou shalt not crrr...crrr...criticize the prooo...fess...shun...ulls. Although the professional moniker doesn't give you any indication of ability, but rather that someone is performing said task for compensated vocational purposes. Hence this example of a professional:

Those magnifiers are an add-on and you almost get back to a scope type size. Not a good looking arrangement either. I am sure that with the advancement of technology you will soon be able to buy a very small red dot scope with a single claw mount, maybe 3 power, thats all doubles and DG rifles need.

Burris is making a 1x, 3x, and 5x Prismatic sight that is illuminated and etched for your convenience. Burris 3x

It's interesting, having come from a more black rifle background....Red Dots are a serious capability enhancement, but only when paired with a magnifier. The LaRue flip mount for the Aimpoint mag, the EO Tech flip mount...it's an awesome capability to go from 0 power with a red dot to 3x with that same dot, at the flick of your wrist. I carried my M-4 like that for years, across two deployments and validated it real world.


Yet, you don't see the magnifier much in hunting. Strange. Likely due to mounting options.



https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-qd-pivot-mount-tall-lt755/

I'm going to go with the fact that since most people don't hunt with an AR platform, the rail real estate just isn't there. For me I'm thinking long and hard about blocking the top of my rifle's action and how quickly I can get access to it for loading more long magnum shells in the case where I have depleted the magazine. I'm currently using a two piece scope base and even considering rebating the scope mount to clear the entire action when the scope is removed. Eotechs are long, take up a bit of room, and the world looks at them and ITAR when they get on an airplane. They are not innocuous.