What did you reload today?

[Slickshooter]

Did you know the CEB has tips you can install in that bullet, I put them in my 255gr 9.3x62 and in my 420 gr Raptors for my .458

Yep, they came with the tips, I don’t have any feeding problems without them

 

[michael458]

Yep, they came with the tips, I don’t have any feeding problems without them

The purpose of the CEB Talon Tip is not actually for feed/function, although that can certainly be a benefit for rifles that are not up to par to feed a large cavity Safari or Lever Gun Raptor.

The main purpose of the Talon Tip is to increase BC, or Ballistic Coefficient. While not very many of us is really concerned about "BC" for long range shooting, and I most definitely include myself in that, the increase in BC does give us some "Free", and very valuable increased Impact Velocity at ranges that matter to most of us..... 50 yards and closer. Raptors react very favorably to increased impact velocity. The more velocity, the more trauma inflicted and more depth of penetration of the remaining bullet. Anything from 50 fps to 150 fps make a huge impact difference with these type bullets.

I went back and looked at some of the old test work I did in 2011 and 2012.

There are two Basic types of Raptors...... Those designed to work in the Lever Guns, this requires a shorter nose projection so that they can be loaded in lever gun cartridges such as 45/70. Now, these same short nose projection LG Raptors, can be loaded in various bolt gun cartridges as well, seated deep, add the Talon Tip, and most will work through the magazines of standard bolt guns. In this photo you see a 250 gr Lever Gun Raptor and how it works with the two bolt gun cartridges to the left, and of course the 45/70 on the right. The nose projection above the top band is around .430 or so for the LG Raptor.

The Safari Raptor comes with a much longer Nose Projection, from .600 to .700 inches above the top band. I did not have a good photo of Safari Raptors, but here is a photo of some .458 caliber CEB Solids, showing LG Solids and Safari Solids, and the difference between Nose Projections

If you load a Safari long nose projection bullet, and add a Talon Tip, they will not work through the magazine of any normal Bolt rifles......... fantastic in a Double rifle, or single shot, where you are not dealing with magazine feed. However, some very "Savvy" hunters/shooters have learned to put a Talon Tip on that first round in the chamber to gain that added down range terminal performance with the first round.

I found this to be pretty impressive, so much so I designed two personal cartridges that can use the Safari Raptors with Talon Tips, and work through the magazine. 500 B&M and 458 B&M EX.

Now a few examples of how the Talon Tip increases Terminal Performance, while you cannot see the destruction of test medium, which I did, you can see the difference in penetration of the same bullet at higher impact velocities..........

We were intrigued with some of the ESP Raptors in the beginning as well....... we put this 9.3 210 gr ESP through the ringer with various tests, this is one of the early longer designed Talon Tips ....

And now the new 9.3 Talon Tip..........

Some 338 Data.

Across the board in all calibers and cartridges, the Talon Tips added to the Raptors made a significant difference in Terminal Performance.

I hope that helps you guys understand the value of the Talon Tips for these type bullets.

Also, you can think about it as an added 100-150 fps in impact velocity just with the addition of the Tip...... no extra powder, no extra pressures, other than the cost of the tip, the added velocity comes free!

 

[Hyde Hunter]

the real reason I have to use the tips on my 9.2x62 is that the 210 and the 255Raptors will not feed from the magazine of my Sauer 100 it has some weird nub sticking up that stops the bullet dead but with a pointed bullet feeds right up and slick. sucks that I loose powder space and velocity but with the tip I gain it back but I do not like the price of 1.00 per tip for the 255 bullets, they should come with the bullet.

 

[Brickman301]

Loaded up 20 rounds of .35 Remington with 36 grains of IMR 3031, and Hornady 200 grain round nose bullets. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to take them to the range one day this week.

 

[michael458]

the real reason I have to use the tips on my 9.2x62 is that the 210 and the 255Raptors will not feed from the magazine of my Sauer 100 it has some weird nub sticking up that stops the bullet dead but with a pointed bullet feeds right up and slick. sucks that I loose powder space and velocity but with the tip I gain it back but I do not like the price of 1.00 per tip for the 255 bullets, they should come with the bullet.

Yes, at $1 each is pricey for Talon Tips no doubt, but I believe rather expensive to make as well. Not sure what your objectives might be with the 255s in 9.3, but they are mostly for heavier critters. There is (or used to be) a 3 blade version and a regular 6 blade version. Early days, some yo yo complained about the smaller blades not penetrating deep enough in buffalo. As I was going to Australia to test other bullets on buffalo I did take the 9.3 B&M, Dan made some 9.3 caliber (.366) 3 blade versions of the 255 Raptors. With the 3 blades being larger, therefore they should penetrate deeper.

In the test work it did show the 6 blades vs 3 blades with the 3 blades penetrating deeper, as did the bullet itself as well.

I suppose it did ok on Buffalo as well............ But overall, I was not very impressed with 9.3 caliber on buffalo regardless of bullet. After 8-10 I put it away and used a bigger caliber I had also brought along to test, 475 B&M, which I did not like it much either. It did fine on buffalo, just as good as .458 caliber, but no better than. Damn sure a big difference between .366 and .474 on buffalo however.

The 210 ESP Raptor/Solid, and many of the ESP bullets can be a little squirrely. They do not adhere to standard twist rate stability norms......... I used the 210 Raptor in Africa extensively on everything from impala to zebra, and heavy to oryz, wildebeest and zebra........ Never recovered the first bullet, all reasonable angles the base exited. It did a lot of damage as well. However, I found it to be a little unstable in my 9.3 B&Ms, which I believe are 1:12 twist rates, but not 100% sure of that today.. I had Dan do a 200 gr Flat Base, and was extremely pleased with it....... it is 100% stable and not squirrely at all. The 200 Flat Base Raptor, comes with Talon Tips. Although I am not seeing it listed online? It is to me by far the better choice overall in 9.3 unless you need heavy.

I run the 200s at anything from 2950 to 3000 fps in the 19-20 inch barrels of the B&M cartridge. Or I used to, I don't shoot any 9.3s any longer.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

Michael, I am working with the 255 or now 260 grain with the tips for use on Cape Buffalo this coming Sept, the PH is good with it. This will also be a cull hunt for plains game so I want one bullet for everything. I will also take my .458 with the 420 Safari Raptors Tipped also. So far I have found the most accurate bullet so far is the 200 Tipped Raptor, I just shot a new rifle I built with it the other day 1st group and it printed at 100 yards a .274 group. I have thought about that bullet or the 210 Raptor with a tip installed for everything but was not sure about it for buffalo. I know the 200 or 210 would be great for plains game so I will see what happens. Oh CEB still lists the 200 gr. I really wish Dan would come out with a 230 or 240 Tipped bullet. The Raptors and solids did a fantastic job on the Buff last year on a charge at 30 feet, no bullets recovered on that on

 

[michael458]

So far I have found the most accurate bullet so far is the 200 Tipped Raptor, I just shot a new rifle I built with it the other day 1st group and it printed at 100 yards a .274 group.

The 200 FB I show above? Yes, if so, I don't doubt it for a second, that is the perfect 9.3 bullet for anything less than the heavies I think........ I shot some Aussie cows, some big ones, with the 210 ESP Raptors, I had broadside pass through. But I would be a little worried on extreme angles..... I could not find the 200 FB online, glad you did and they are still there. Perfection for plains game, small or large, for medium caliber. I doubt the 280 Solid would be close POI with the 200 FB or even 210 ESP. If the 210 ESP was not squirrely in your rifle, then you can turn around and use the solid end as well, this would give some leeway on the angles........ Sorry, I just can't get into buffalo with much under .458 caliber. But of course, it can be done........ For that, stick with the bigger Raptor, matches with the Solids......... Maybe a 225 Tipped Raptor matching with a 250 Solid would be a good combination for the 9.3s as well.....it can be done, just gonna cost the special run price and numbers........

The Raptors and solids did a fantastic job on the Buff last year on a charge at 30 feet, no bullets recovered on that on

Nothing better that I have ever used. Big bore Raptors are just wicked..... then follow with the #13 Solids, over and out..........

Don't expect buffalo to react to 9.3 Raptors like they do .458 Raptors or .458+......... just the way it is. They respect caliber. I was fairly pleased with my 9.3 in Africa on plains game..........not much in Australia on buff....

 

[Hyde Hunter]

Yes the 220 tipped is on ceb's web site the first one on the page. As for the 210 due to its flat taper base my Sauer will not feed it into the feed ramp, so only tipped bullets for this rifle

 

[Hyde Hunter]

Yes the 220 tipped is on ceb's web site the first one on the page. As for the 210 due to its flat taper base my Sauer will not feed it into the feed ramp, so only tipped bullets for this rifle

Oh I meant 210 not 220 Raptor

 

[Brickman301]

Loaded up 20 rounds of .35 Remington with 36 grains of IMR 3031, and Hornady 200 grain round nose bullets. Hopefully I’ll get a chance to take them to the range one day this week.

Got a chance to the range after work today, to try out this load/gun combo.

Hands down the easiest load development I’ve ever done. I did a lot of research, and most agreed that the load I listed above seemed to shoot the best from their rifles/experiences.

Well, it shot so well, that I’m not even going to try to “find” a better load. It’s a close range rifle, and 50 yards in the area I would use this rifle would be a long shot.
Here’s a picture of the targets. I might adjust the scope just a little, as it’s shooting a little left.

 

[Brickman301]

Mmm… how do I rotate my pictures?

 

[Brickman301]

Oh, and of course here’s a picture of the rifle. Marlin 336, 35 Remington made in 1971wearing a 2x7 Nikon scope

 

[F. Vaccaro]

That'll work! Great rifle, great ctg.

 

[Goopy]

Posted this over in the “primer seating” thread, but it is just as apt here:

Some .30-30’s for plinking. 30 grains of H335 over 150 grain Berry’s
Nice easy pop can loads

 

[Longwalker]

7x57 with 156gr Norma Oryx over N550 in new RWS brass.

I like everything about that load! Happy Hunting!

 

[mdwest]

Picked up 200 168gr Barnes ttsx .308 bullets today… planning on finishing up some more of the 308 primed brass this weekend…

 

[dneaster3]

These are the two loads I’ve been working on this winter/spring for plains game and buffalo, respectively:

.30/06
200 grain Nosler Partitions, H4350, CCI primers, Nosler brass —> 3 shots into 0.44” at 2550 fps

.416 Rigby
400 grain Barnes TSX, Winchester StaBall 6.5, WLRP primers, Norma brass —> 3 shots into 0.88” at 2360

Very pleased. Ready for use!

 

[50Gunner]

200 new Starline 44 Special cases FL sized, then loaded with CCI-300 large pistol primers, then flared case mouths enough to just start .429 inch improved Keith bullets that weigh 285 grains, they are heat treated 25 BHN alloy, very hard with a .350" flat meplat.

Case mouths closed via a firm roll crimp at .450 inch, 10grs of Longshot sent them out at 1188 fps, I realize this is way above standard heavy 44 Special loads, but, the little Freedom Arms 44 Special revolver will easily handle these and more if a man see's fit.

You see, if I like a gun, I carry it, carrying it means it HAS to work for woods carry, this 5.5 inch barreled Premier Grade round butt revolver with ebony micarta grips is very easy to like, lightweight and fast handling, it's carried in a cross draw left side butt forward leather holster made by Azula Gun Holsters in South Africa, nicely stowed out of the way for primary right hand carrying of your long gun, recoil even weak side one handed is very easy to manage, don't think any woods animal in US or Canada, even the great bears of Alaska are gonna buck this load, it will drive extremely deep and straight wrecking everything in it's path with the large flat meplat.

You can burn all you care to waste in a snuff can at 25 yards off a rear sandbag rest, great fun with the little 44 cal popper today.