The Ultimate Dangerous Game Rifle

Newboomer

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Something I have been wondering about for some time while reading the various posts on the virtues of DG rifles.

What constitutes the ULTIMATE DG rifle? The perfect all round DG rifle?

Bolt action, double, caliber, brand, model? I won't mention price because for this discussion it is immaterial and could unduly affect the outcome.
 
I believe it partly depends on if you are the client/hunter or backup/PH. I believe it is different for each. Our lion PHes carried a 500 NE double and a 458 Lott bolt. My buffalo PH carried a 458 Lott bolt. In both situations I (wimpy!) carried a 375 H&H bolt.
This is going to be interesting Newboomer!
 
@Ridgewalker, don't feel bad. My limit for recoil is the 375 H&H as well, and I shoot it without a brake, but I shoot my 300 Weatherby with a break. Which I believe kicks worst than the 375. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
I agree @Ridgewalker . Typically, two different rifles intended for two different purposes.

For a client, it is whatever set-up allows him to put a first lethal bullet exactly on target in as wide a set of potential conditions (light, cover, time, etc) as possible.

For a professional hunter it is whatever set-up allows him to end or prevent a dangerous game encounter as quickly as possible. I deliberately used the word prevent, because a PH, based on his judgement, may need to take a finishing shot at a departing DG animal so as not to have to dig it out of cover later.
 
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I deliberately used the word prevent, because a PH, based on his judgement, made need to take a finishing shot at a departing DG animal so as not to have to dig it out of cover later.
So true! And I for one would have no problem with that because they have families just like us! They have to make a very fast judgement call, right or wrong!
As a matter of fact, I was quite surprised on Toby’s and my lion hunts they never fired a shot even though mine ran off after my first shot and Toby’s was just trying to find who/what to kill that caused her pain. Of course it made for some exciting and tense moments! Still both PHes had their rifles pointed at the lions just in case.
 
Good points. What I'm interested in is from a hunter's standpoint: function, reliability, ease of handling, effectiveness, plus what I posted above. All the attributes of the "perfect" hunter's DG rifle.
 
Good points. What I'm interested in is from a hunter's standpoint: function, reliability, ease of handling, effectiveness, plus what I posted above. All the attributes of the "perfect" hunter's DG rifle.
Gotcha! I believe you have a 404 J on the way in an MRC. If it functions smoothly; is accurate (MOA is nice, but 2” is probably fine for anything except croc); I would think it would be a grand client rifle for anything on earth with the appropriate bullet! (Obviously I’m envious of your new rifle!(y))

I think the shooter and bullet almost have more to do with it than the rifle or cartridge. JMO
 
IMO for the hunter and I'll limit it to bolt action rifles.

Largest caliber you can shoot accurately starting with 375 and going up...I'd prefer something starting with a .4
Rifle weight appropriate for the caliber and still easy for you to carry, some are comfortable with a heavier rifle.
Bolt action, most will say CRF but I believe it feeds and ejects properly EVERY time, use it.
Sights - low power scope (6x max) to 1 power or even better open sights/reflex/red dot sight, it needs to work for your eyes.
Rifle need to fit you well and come to the shoulder in a natural motion with your eye drawn to the sights.
Making sure you practice with the rifle often to get accustomed to the recoil, weight and operation of the rifle.

Many of these items will vary because of what works best for you.
Having the ability to handle several DG bolt (or double) guns is a great place to start.
Actually shooting some of these powerful calibers is even better.
 
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I hadn't considered my 404 Jeffery as the perfect dg rifle but if it works anything like my M70 Safari Express 375HH I will feel quite confident facing any creature on earth. I've loaded up some Barnes TSX 400 g with 69 g of 4064. That's a couple g below max. Should be quite effective.
I talked to MRC the other day and they are waiting on the rear sight. The one that came in was drilled wrong so they had to reorder. Said my rifle should ready in about two weeks.
 
I hadn't considered my 404 Jeffery as the perfect dg rifle but if it works anything like my M70 Safari Express 375HH I will feel quite confident facing any creature on earth. I've loaded up some Barnes TSX 400 g with 69 g of 4064. That's a couple g below max. Should be quite effective.
I talked to MRC the other day and they are waiting on the rear sight. The one that came in was drilled wrong so they had to reorder. Said my rifle should ready in about two weeks.

with that rifle you should be just fine!
 
I am a pre-64 Mod 70 guy. Bought a 375 H&H 50 years ago before going to Ak to live. Have taken a lot of game with it since then. So far it has been good enough. Now live in Tn and son wants to take it over for Colorado.
 
For a client DG hunter: Montana Rifle Company 404 Jeffery with iron sights and high end 1-6 or 1-8 power red dot scope in high end, quick detach rings. EasyEasy.

For PH: CZ550 in 458 Lott for Problem Animal Control (because of ammo availability, power, and magazine capacity). The CZ 550 in 458 Lott is also good for guiding photographic clients as it weighs a couple pounds less than a double and in those scenarios you shouldn't be taking a a second shot at a (already shot by a hunting client) wounded animal. Soundly constructed boxlock ejector double rifle in 470 or 500 NE for guiding hunting clients around Buffalo, Lion, or Elephant. Automatic 10 gauge with iron sights/red dot and flashlight loaded with rifled slugs for guiding clients around Leopard.
 
Good points. What I'm interested in is from a hunter's standpoint: function, reliability, ease of handling, effectiveness, plus what I posted above. All the attributes of the "perfect" hunter's DG rifle.

404 JEFF fitted with a low power scope on QD mounts.....especially if thick skinned DG is on the menu. 400's are the perfect caliber for Buffalo.
 
I believe you can insert 100 different model/cartridge configurations, maybe 1000’s but what really matters is that first round out of the tube! The rifle you are comfortable with, that seems to fall into place on your shoulder and cheek, the one that topping off in a lull of action is second nature, this is the perfect DG rifle. The last thing you want is to be hunting with a 470 because someone told you it was supreme when a 375 is what you are comfortable with. Regardless of the expectations you have of your PH to sort out a problem, I believe it a fools error to place all of your eggs in one basket. You both have mechanical tools made by humans in your hands. Failure can happen at any time regardless of your title or skill level so best be prepared for contingency. Familiarity, built through training and practice are your best insurance not how pretty the walnut is, what action you have, not even that you have the most powerful thing under the stars. Proficiency with a Ruger No.1 in 375 would make me more confident than having a 505 Gibbs in my hands that I questioned myself with. There are so many excellent rifles to choose from it would be crazy to tell anyone what is best for them. Do I have my personal opinion of what I think is near perfect? Maybe until something that feels better comes along.
 
I think it's very difficult to define such a rifle. There are so many different options so that clients and also PH use rifles , bolt action or DR , caliber 375 to 600 for hunting and backup. Everyone thinks he holds the ultimate dangerous game rifle in his hand.

Everyone will also defend his opinion and there are always 2 camps anyway , the users of medium bore cartridges and the users of large bore cartridges.

If you need to do your backup yourself , it's better to be a little bit more armed , but hardly a customer has to be the backup himself. I know this only from West Africa and partly from Cameroun. It was also common in Rwanda. In the rest of East and South Africa , where the majority hunts , it's not necessary , there are enough PH for the backup.

Summarized and IMHO : For the client a bolt action rifle with Mauser action or similar , scoped , caliber 416 or 404 Jeffery.
 
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For client hunters :
I would highly recommend ( predictably ) the .375 Holland and Holland magnum as the gold standard of cartridges for game , dangerous or otherwise . It would have adequate penetration and a comfortable recoil for the average man .
I would have such a rifle , built on a French Brevex magnum mauser mechanism , weighing a hefty , balanced nine pounds . It would use a telescopic sight from the firm , Weaver .
It can comfortably take any Indian dangerous animals and l am confident that based on my reading , it could adequately take any African animal as well , provided shot placement is critical and suitable ammunition , is used.
In our time , it was the 300 grain Winchester silver tip or any other suitable soft nose cartridge for any soft skinned animals and the first shot on a Gaur ( provided the lungs were selected as a target from the side ) .
For extra shots on Gaur , 300 grain Winchester or Hornady metal envelope cartridges were used.
Today , modern soft nose cartridges with a more controlled rate of expansion and homogeneous metal bullets ( made from brass or copper and with flat heads ) appear to be far more effective on animals than the aforementioned bullets of my time . Even though l have no experience with these homogeneous metal bullets , their construction alone ( being a solid single piece of metal ) would imply that they can hold together better through the flesh and bones of thick skinned animals , than the traditional bullets , which are lead , covered with a metal envelope .

Based on my understanding of African fauna and comparing them to their Indian counterparts ,
for an African safari if a client is allowed to bring three fire arms , l would recommend the following battery :
1) A .375 Holland and Holland magnum calibre rifle for the largest plains game and dangerous game , calibrated for the 300 grain cartridge.
2) A .308 Winchester , calibrated for the 180 grain cartridge , for long distance shooting at plains game .
3) A .243 Winchester , for the smaller antelopes of Africa.

For a professional Hunter :
The most large calibre rifle to stop dangerous animals , in my time , was the .458 Winchester magnum . Reports of unreliability aside , assuming that it can do what it was advertised to do ( propel a 500 grain bullet at 2150 feet per second ) , lt would be a very effective dangerous animal cartridge . I would have such a rifle built , also on a Brevex magnum mauser mechanism weighing roughly ten pounds . Due to the fact that the homogeneous metal bullets need to be longer in length than a metal envelope bullet to achieve the same weight ( for instance , a 500 grain homogeneous metal bullet will be longer than a 500 grain metal envelope bullet )
and thus take up more of the propellant powder room in the cartridge case , l would not recommend homogeneous metal bullets for the .458 Winchester magnum ( which already has a small cartridge case , as is ) . Instead , l would recommend , for this cartridge , 500 grain metal envelope bullets.

For the professional hunter who needs to pick four rifles , l would choose ( based on what was available in my time )
:
1) .458 Winchester magnum , for dangerous animals and stopping charging animals to save clients
2 A .375 Holland and Holland magnum calibre double barrel rifle with 26 inch long barrels , two triggers and no automatic safety mechanism , which is irreplaceable for pursuing wounded leopards into dense vegetation.
3. A .308 Winchester , calibrated for the 180 grain cartridge , for long distance shooting of plains game .
4. A .243 Winchester , for the smaller African antelopes .
Of course , with so many modern and effective rifle calibres today , my choices are surely outdated and should only serve as a rough guide .
 
Mr Rahman, you are not as outdated as you say.

Allow me to put it in universal terms:

- mid forties caliber, for DG situation (it reminds me of another term, i saw somewhere "roaring forties", although it was originally meant for geographic latitudes in main sailing ships routes with rough, choppy seas & gale winds, someone used it to describe calibers as well)

- 375 (in all its varieties) - for leopards, etc

- good caliber in range of .30 - a sweetheart of many, very universal, from classic 30-06, 308 win, up to fast modern 300's (magnums)

- 6-6.5 mm, for smaller antelopes.

Not outdated at all!
 
Mr Rahman, you are not as outdated as you say.

Allow me to put it in universal terms:

- mid forties caliber, for DG situation (it reminds me of another term, i saw somewhere "roaring forties", although it was originally meant for geographic latitudes in main sailing ships routes with rough, choppy seas & gale winds, someone used it to describe calibers as well)

- 375 (in all its varieties) - for leopards, etc

- good caliber in range of .30 - a sweetheart of many, very universal, from classic 30-06, 308 win, up to fast modern 300's (magnums)

- 6-6.5 mm, for smaller antelopes.

Not outdated at all!
Mark Hunter
Thank you so much for your kind words and appreciation . I agree with your assessment , wholeheartedly :
A .400 calibre or above for stopping dangerous animals
A .375 calibre for general use and and picked shots on dangerous animals.
A .30-06 or .308 Winchester or .300 Winchester magnum for long range shooting
And a .243 or .264 Winchester for smaller animals
It seems like the perfect battery to me .
 
I hadn't considered my 404 Jeffery as the perfect dg rifle but if it works anything like my M70 Safari Express 375HH I will feel quite confident facing any creature on earth. I've loaded up some Barnes TSX 400 g with 69 g of 4064.



If that load doesn't work as well as you'd like, try 84 Gr. of H-4350 pushing a 400 Gr. Swift A Frame. Von Gruff gave me that as his accuracy load. It shoots sub MOA in both of my 404(s) as well as in many other rifles. Try it "you'll like it."
 
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I would not presume to have an opinion of what a PH should use. As a client, I chose an accurate double rifle, in .450-400 N.E. 3". My reasons are as follows:
• I wanted a cartridge that was as powerful as practical but not so powerful that I c0uldn't shoot it well or would be discouraged to practise. My rifle fires 400 grain bullets at 2100 fps, with less perceived recoil than faster lighter bullets from either of my .375 H&H rifles, and provides more bullet momentum and penetration, and less chance of deflection on heavy bone.
• I wanted a rifle action that was so familiar that I did not have to think about operating it, but instead rely on "muscle memory." After a lifetime of many thousands of rounds shot with similar double barrel shotguns, my operation of double barrel, double trigger, tang safety, ejector double rifles is instinctive, smooth and fast. The rifle must fit and handle like a good shotgun, with between the hands balance and perfect stock fit. Mine does.
• First shot accuracy is a must, my rifle is capable of 4cm groups from the right barrel at 100 M. Second shot accuracy is more about speed and coordination on a moving target than paper accuracy, and my rifle can place a second shot within a hands width of the first very quickly, much faster than a bolt action.
• Equipped with good open sights, with a flat top square face and rugged Patridge style brass front blade. Easy to see in poor light and rugged. I feel that type of sight is superior to any sort of bead if a precise shot is to be taken. Some old time doubles were equipped with multiple rear leaves. Nobody is going to shoot dangerous game at 200, 300 or 400 M. Mine has only one "flip up" leaf for more distant shooting, more leaves only get in the way.
• Equipped with a good low power variable scope, in high quality quick detachable scope mounts. The advantages of both are obvious. Scope must be mounted as low as practical to preserve handling qualities. This is the one area where a properly stocked bolt action rifle is clearly superior, the stocks are designed for scope use. In my case I am accustomed to shooting scoped rifles that are stocked for open sight use, and have no trouble with a more " heads up" stance when shooting a scope equipped double. Mine has a decent but not top of the line Leupold 1.5-4x 30mm in excellent Recknagel pivot mounts.
• The option for mounting a red dot reflex sight in the QD scope mount base. I have equipped my rifle with a Burris Fast fire sight, in MAKlic mount. It is almost as accurate as the scope, easy to see in dim light, and the fit and handling of the rifle is similar to iron sights.
• Maker or gunsmith testing and adjustment to ensure a good trigger, flawless operation, and complete reliability. A double rifle with double triggers is more reliable that a single trigger model, but the second trigger must break with a very similar feel to the first. I had mine adjusted. I had the ejectors smoothed and timed for simultaneous operation. I had barrel regulation adjusted by JJ Perodeau to allow accurate shooting with scope or without.
• of course, good ammunition must be used. My rifle is regulated with commonly available Hornady ammunition. Serviceable but not ideal, so for "ultimate" performance handloads must be used. Mine is not difficult to hand load for with Woodleigh or North Fork bullets.

I did not choose the most expensive rifle available, mine is a Merkel 140AE. To date I have only used it to kill one cape buffalo. the first shot went exactly where aimed at 80M, and penetrated the chest just over the heart and bullet continued on diagonally through the chest. The second shot hit the bull in the ham one or two seconds later, as he turned to try and run away. Bullet penetrated the body, through the lungs and lodged in the middle of the chest in the ribs. Bull went down within 10 steps, but since my PH also fired, I do not know if it would have dropped so quickly without assistance. I am satisfied! I am looking forward to more hunts wit this rifle.
 

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