The soul of a poacher. Primarily. Why?

Flint

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Unfortunately has this theme scores of sub-avenues.

I will attempt to retain the course.


Hunter-gatherers were there for probably a thousand of years. And sustainably will it endure forever.



The need for food. By starving rural people. Real hunger aside. I accept that. But man-made. And condoned.

And bush-meat sales on unprecedented scales erupted uncontrollably since the rise of incompetent dictator governments. From the 60s onwards. The need arose when white commercial farms were destroyed.

History covers and fuels this to this very second.


Mainly elephant- and rhino hunters. For those who may be referred to as such, and other, of yore. And the present shall I keep it to hence.
For those who did it legally. My respect.



For the rest. 99,99. Only for capital gain.

A poisoned arrow or the most expensive poaching rifle makes no difference in their hearts.

Neither the counter of trading.

A hundred years ago was it London and Paris. Today Beijing and Saigon.

Only is the line of command and consent pungently intertwined and vastly different.

Masterly ordered and validated. Although as transparent as new glass and as waterproof as a sieve.

Please research the shocking state of ivory and rhino horn syndicates operating in South Africa. And its neighbours. It loosens denture fillings.





Then is there the saddest mismanagement of land on which the beasts must survive.

Instead of managing numbers. In the areas. With the best of equipment. Placed in their laps. For totally free of any charge. Which could have, during the past twenty six years, produced, to the needy, a few million tins of canned meat.

Has the cowboy gunslingers in control of at least the Kruger national Park opted to wear green under trousers.



The KNP can sustainably accommodate 3,000 elephant. There are all of 10,700.

And in order to allow poaching syndicates across borders a free for all, are light yellow coloured arguments in favour of this dished out. A million-a-day. Also for free. That transfrontier parks are restocked. Animals are slaughtered. In total herds. Far from any being to utilise meat. All those with teeth out the lip. And older. And the small ones left to starve. And be torn apart by hyenas. Even baby rhinos’ noses hacked. It’s reality. Do research.



Allan Savory argues elephants are not a detrimental land issue cause. Ron Thomson wrote an open letter to someone up high in Botswana with his fingers in the photographic bean counter’s jars.

Trees do not fall over by themselves. I live 150km from Kruger for 45 years. The annihilation is devastating. I do not want to witness it any longer.



Instead has how many ever kilometres of, even international elephant-proof fencing been decimated and, without any possible thought regarding, e.g. the international spread of foot-and-mouth disease, which the South and East African regions are frot of.



For those with the technology. Resources. And time.

Please. Do a six month high resolution satellite imaging study of the KNP. The adjacent area to the east of this. Transfrontier area………. And the area to the north of these which goes under the smoke screen of a transfrontier park as well. Mark and count daily rhino- and elephant carcass additions.

Anybody. Please. If you can or will? With the available technology can this not be a big deal.

And surely is undisputable……..



Each individual is free to post own thoughts.

And should management remove this from placement. So be it.

But will not alter the truth. One iota.



Then has Brian Herne two excellent six-hour audio accounts of the White Hunter on Youtube which fills in scores of earlier/past gaps which this mere comment could add only scratch on.



Respectfully.
 
Is hunting not allowed in Kruger?
 
I am just a plumb dumber, but I find the original post disjointed and hard to follow. I do gather that he is distressed about current game/land management practice and poaching.
all I can say is that it my child was suffering from an ailment that would cost $20000 for a Dr to fix, my current employment paid less than $20/day, and I could make $5k for a grizzly bear hide, skull, claws and gall bladder, there would be 4 dead bears most riki-tik.
I think that is a lot of poaching, right there.
 
In my country, the poacher generally is:
- person of lower level of society, with lower income, who has access to hunting area, and means to do the poaching. Either by firearm, or wire or any other means. He usually catch more then he needs for pot, and then sells the meat. This decription is covering more then 90% of poachers.
- there is also a minor part of poachers (less then 10%) who do their deed just for pleasure of killing, and have resorces to purchase sofistaicated night vision equipment, and good rifles. What they do with venisson, they just give it away.
Both types, are disastreorus for game funds.
Basically, a true gentlemen is not a poacher, but to be gentlemen, from perspective of poacher you have to be rich, or at least well off.

In Africa, social background comes in a same manner. average gdp compared to price of say PG hunt.
(For example Tanzania, GDP 1000 usd, and trophy PG hunt foreng hunter cannot get for less then 20k)
Extremely high prices for foreign hunters, makes incentive for private land owners or private outfitters, and it pushes aside local poplation.
The term white hunter - black poacher never really dissapered. It remains. But in its essence it is comeing from social and economic differences. And this in Africa comes to extreme.

There are incentives for local communities and benefits for local communities in programs such as CAMPFIRE, but it is not established continent wide, and whereever is private enterprise and possibility for high value trophy hunt in Africa, local population will always be at marginal situation and tempted to hunt illegally for bush meat., and for their existance.

Black poacher at best, can get a job change and turn gamekeeper in local antpoaching unit, paid and employed by local game menagment or hunting organisation, sometimes goverment employee. But it does not cover entire local communities, they cannot all be gamekeepers, or trackers, or skinner, or camp staff. So problem of poaching in Africa will remain for time being.

There is also a matter of how to treat local traditional communities of hunter gatherers.
For exampe San people, bushman? I dont think that classic formal licensing will be aplicable, and then it is just a metter of bradning them "poachers" in some cases where it is not properly regulated.

Finally, poaching for ivory and rhino horn, special case.
With offical closing of - till now legal local markets in china - for ivory, the pressure and demand will reduce for elephant poaching, I guess. For rhino, I have no clue.
 
In my country, the poacher generally is:
- person of lower level of society, with lower income, who has access to hunting area, and means to do the poaching. Either by firearm, or wire or any other means. He usually catch more then he needs for pot, and then sells the meat. This decription is covering more then 90% of poachers.
- there is also a minor part of poachers (less then 10%) who do their deed just for pleasure of killing, and have resorces to purchase sofistaicated night vision equipment, and good rifles. What they do with venisson, they just give it away.
Both types, are disastreorus for game funds.
Basically, a true gentlemen is not a poacher, but to be gentlemen, from perspective of poacher you have to be rich, or at least well off.

In Africa, social background comes in a same manner. average gdp compared to price of say PG hunt.
(For example Tanzania, GDP 1000 usd, and trophy PG hunt foreng hunter cannot get for less then 20k)
Extremely high prices for foreign hunters, makes incentive for private land owners or private outfitters, and it pushes aside local poplation.
The term white hunter - black poacher never really dissapered. It remains. But in its essence it is comeing from social and economic differences. And this in Africa comes to extreme.

There are incentives for local communities and benefits for local communities in programs such as CAMPFIRE, but it is not established continent wide, and whereever is private enterprise and possibility for high value trophy hunt in Africa, local population will always be at marginal situation and tempted to hunt illegally for bush meat., and for their existance.

Black poacher at best, can get a job change and turn gamekeeper in local antpoaching unit, paid and employed by local game menagment or hunting organisation, sometimes goverment employee. But it does not cover entire local communities, they cannot all be gamekeepers, or trackers, or skinner, or camp staff. So problem of poaching in Africa will remain for time being.

There is also a matter of how to treat local traditional communities of hunter gatherers.
For exampe San people, bushman? I dont think that classic formal licensing will be aplicable, and then it is just a metter of bradning them "poachers" in some cases where it is not properly regulated.

Finally, poaching for ivory and rhino horn, special case.
With offical closing of - till now legal local markets in china - for ivory, the pressure and demand will reduce for elephant poaching, I guess. For rhino, I have no clue.
 
There are really two types of poaching: Commercial and subsistence. Ivory and rhino horn poaching is commercial by definition, but meat poaching has two subsets, commercial and subsistence. It's pretty hard to condemn a man for trying to feed his family, so as long as he's not using an AK-47, poison arrows, wire snares, or traps. But I have no sympathy for anyone using snares or traps.

The other type of poaching whether for ivory, rhino horn or meat is commercial and those folks need to be dealt with with extreme prejudice. I hunted in a poaching outbreak where the President of the country had issued a "shoot on sight" order. As a hunter, I'm not a big fan of that approach because I don't want to shoot anyone and the poachers get the word and they shoot on sight too. But you need to deal with commercial poachers very harshly.

You also need to wipe out any poaching with poison arrows, as it's inefficient, and a lot of game is lost, and traps and snares as they are not selective and destructive. To me, the answer is a conservation program utilizing trophy hunting that returns the value of the animals to the community, but that's just my humble opinion. I don't live there, I just hunt there.
 
When I was a kid nearly everyone "put one in the pot" occasionally. It was more like subsistance growing up in an area where nearly everyone was poorer than dirt and had large families.

I remember one day the game warden happened to stop by to chat with my Dad. Eventually the conversation got around to hunting and, of course, poaching.

The warden was a local gent and knew everyone in the area. He told Dad that he knew we were shooting deer out of season but OKed it because of our large family. He said, "Shoot 'em, eat 'em, just don't sell 'em". That always stuck with me and to me is the difference between subsistance and poaching. Taking game for your personal use is one thing, random killing for profit is an entirely different matter and intolerable.
 
I live in rural Kentucky. There are more than a few people around here that hunt out of season for food. In some cases they have no choice. If they didn't hunt they wouldn't eat. I have no problem with it and I suspect F&G has factored this into the game quota equation.

I have a much bigger problem with hunters that leave the meat to rot. Somebody dumped 3 deer in the ditch front of my property last year. Two were bucks with the antlers cut off and the other was a doe. In all three cases they cut out the backstop and dumped the rest to rot. I can't begin to tell you how angry I was.
 
I live in rural Kentucky. There are more than a few people around here that hunt out of season for food. In some cases they have no choice. If they didn't hunt they wouldn't eat. I have no problem with it and I suspect F&G has factored this into the game quota equation.

I have a much bigger problem with hunters that leave the meat to rot. Somebody dumped 3 deer in the ditch front of my property last year. Two were bucks with the antlers cut off and the other was a doe. In all three cases they cut out the backstop and dumped the rest to rot. I can't begin to tell you how angry I was.

Yes Bonk.
For subsistence and survival must there be a slot in life.
But for steel cable snares being checked once in seven or ten days.
Makes my hair grow to the inside.
And. Hundreds of videos depicting a most proud hunter with a massive set of horns on his back. With a carcass left to rot.
Sorry. I'm a totally and much more civilized slot in life.
 
Poachers in general do not have soul....
 
Unfortunately has this theme scores of sub-avenues.

I will attempt to retain the course.


Hunter-gatherers were there for probably a thousand of years. And sustainably will it endure forever.



The need for food. By starving rural people. Real hunger aside. I accept that. But man-made. And condoned.

And bush-meat sales on unprecedented scales erupted uncontrollably since the rise of incompetent dictator governments. From the 60s onwards. The need arose when white commercial farms were destroyed.

History covers and fuels this to this very second.


Mainly elephant- and rhino hunters. For those who may be referred to as such, and other, of yore. And the present shall I keep it to hence.
For those who did it legally. My respect.



For the rest. 99,99. Only for capital gain.

A poisoned arrow or the most expensive poaching rifle makes no difference in their hearts.

Neither the counter of trading.

A hundred years ago was it London and Paris. Today Beijing and Saigon.

Only is the line of command and consent pungently intertwined and vastly different.

Masterly ordered and validated. Although as transparent as new glass and as waterproof as a sieve.

Please research the shocking state of ivory and rhino horn syndicates operating in South Africa. And its neighbours. It loosens denture fillings.





Then is there the saddest mismanagement of land on which the beasts must survive.

Instead of managing numbers. In the areas. With the best of equipment. Placed in their laps. For totally free of any charge. Which could have, during the past twenty six years, produced, to the needy, a few million tins of canned meat.

Has the cowboy gunslingers in control of at least the Kruger national Park opted to wear green under trousers.



The KNP can sustainably accommodate 3,000 elephant. There are all of 10,700.

And in order to allow poaching syndicates across borders a free for all, are light yellow coloured arguments in favour of this dished out. A million-a-day. Also for free. That transfrontier parks are restocked. Animals are slaughtered. In total herds. Far from any being to utilise meat. All those with teeth out the lip. And older. And the small ones left to starve. And be torn apart by hyenas. Even baby rhinos’ noses hacked. It’s reality. Do research.



Allan Savory argues elephants are not a detrimental land issue cause. Ron Thomson wrote an open letter to someone up high in Botswana with his fingers in the photographic bean counter’s jars.

Trees do not fall over by themselves. I live 150km from Kruger for 45 years. The annihilation is devastating. I do not want to witness it any longer.



Instead has how many ever kilometres of, even international elephant-proof fencing been decimated and, without any possible thought regarding, e.g. the international spread of foot-and-mouth disease, which the South and East African regions are frot of.



For those with the technology. Resources. And time.

Please. Do a six month high resolution satellite imaging study of the KNP. The adjacent area to the east of this. Transfrontier area………. And the area to the north of these which goes under the smoke screen of a transfrontier park as well. Mark and count daily rhino- and elephant carcass additions.

Anybody. Please. If you can or will? With the available technology can this not be a big deal.

And surely is undisputable……..



Each individual is free to post own thoughts.

And should management remove this from placement. So be it.

But will not alter the truth. One iota.



Then has Brian Herne two excellent six-hour audio accounts of the White Hunter on Youtube which fills in scores of earlier/past gaps which this mere comment could add only scratch on.



Respectfully.
Hi Flint .
Based on what I have read I believe the number of elephants is just below 20000 as per a 2019 census .
I have been visiting the Kruger Park a few times every year since 1983 and even a blind man can see what devastation the elephants are causing .
I believe that Ron Thompson is correct regarding the severe impact the elephants are having on the Kruger Park due to the lack of management .
Regarding poaching in SA it appears that a lot of it is commercial and involves powerful people with money , and because there is a lot of money involved then people like game rangers , policemen and soldiers are involved . This type of poaching is all about greed .
 
Hi Flint .
Based on what I have read I believe the number of elephants is just below 20000 as per a 2019 census .
I have been visiting the Kruger Park a few times every year since 1983 and even a blind man can see what devastation the elephants are causing .
I believe that Ron Thompson is correct regarding the severe impact the elephants are having on the Kruger Park due to the lack of management .
Regarding poaching in SA it appears that a lot of it is commercial and involves powerful people with money , and because there is a lot of money involved then people like game rangers , policemen and soldiers are involved . This type of poaching is all about greed .
 
Certainly a perfect first hand account of the best available land mismanagement.
Thank you for sharing it Paul Raley.
The numbers you quote is just about double of that I mentioned. And the devastation on the land incremental.
And a s you state. Because of proven greed. It is depicted very well. And shockingly so. On the internet.
Usage off the and such as the gathering of the bushmen. Utilizing what is required for a day of five was sustainable for hundreds of years.
 

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