Tally windage problem

[pilar]

brand new tally rings and bases on my pre 64 m70 , leopold scope
For some reason my scope is running out of windage ( it’s maxed out and still 4 inches wide)
am I off geometry and need to adjust or something
or should I ditch them and go two piece leopold dove tail , with the two screw adjusters? To cure left/right center issues
pre 64 M70 .270 with leopold 3-9x

 

[Houston Bill]

I had a similar issues with one of my rifles and the issues were not the Talley rings but the holes on top of the action for mounting the bases or rings were not properly aligned.

 

[Ridge Runner]

brand new tally rings and bases on my pre 64 m70 , leopold scope
For some reason my scope is running out of windage ( it’s maxed out and still 4 inches wide)
am I off geometry and need to adjust or something
or should I ditch them and go two piece leopold dove tail , with the two screw adjusters? To cure left/right center issues
pre 64 M70 .270 with leopold 3-9x

What @Houston Bill said.

I will add that your scope may be canted in the rings.

Before starting the following max out the scope's windage line to one side. Next count all the number of clicks till you max out the windage line on the opposite side. Divide that number by 2, now count the number of clicks back toward your starting side. This should put the windage line in the center of your scope. [Also do this to your scope's elevation line.]

Then proceed to the following to mount your scope.

The best way to tell if your scope is properly aligned in the rings is to use ring alignment rods. The if/when needed add shim(s) to align the alignment rods then leaving the shims in place mount your scope.

To check scope is aligned with the barrel, insert a bore scope alignment rod into the muzzle of your rifle, look through your scope, the vertical bore scope rod should be inline with your scope's windage/vertical line.

I use 2 scope levels to make aligning a scope easier. Using a scope level along the length of the scope to keep the scope level in the rings and Using a second scope level, insuring the level is parallel to the scope's elevation/horizontal line, so as you alternate tightening the ring screws the scope doesn't cant out of alignment.

 

[86thecat]

Use the old "scope against a mirror" trick first.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Burris Signature rings with inserts may cure that problem. Except for 11mm CZs, they are all I use.

Signature Rings™ | Burris Optics

www.burrisoptics.com

Edit: A couple 34mm scopes, I use Seekins.

 

[AimSmall]

Good advice above.

Have you previously scoped this rifle?

Have you previously used this scope? Is it new, or used?

I use a lot of Talley, never had an issue.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Use the old "scope against a mirror" trick first.

Faster than counting clicks!
Scope lowest power, put up against mirror, see two sets x hairs. Make one set.

Either receiver screw holes out of alignment or barrel not true with receiver.
Either case you will most likely need a base that has windage in it.

 

[86thecat]

There is a small possibility that scope mount caps have been switched between bases or turned 180 degrees. If they were bored a little differently and not returned to the same mount, in the same orientation there may be some misalignment. If split vertically, there is still a small chance the pairs were mixed up. Give them a good check without scope installed but torqued together. (Have Warne on most of mine and don't remember how most Talleys split)
If something is out far enough to run scope out of adjustment, it should be easy to see.

 

[Dirtdart]

A lot of you guys will remember the Bausch & Lomb Balvar scope that had no adjustments. I use one of these along with an old school bore sighter on any type of base or ring that has adjustment.
Proper shims allow it to be mounted in 26mm or 30mm rings. Once this scope is aligned with the bore sighter along with front and rear rings (lapping bar) you are mechanically centered.

If a vertical split ring doesn't work and you have to go horizontal split the Burris Signature rings that @Hogpatrol mentioned can make it happen along with being easy on the scope finish. Is best to not run a scope with the windage or elevation maxed out.

 

[62flint]

Use the old "scope against a mirror" trick first.

please explain

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

please explain

Put scope up against a mirror,
Lowest power setting.
Look in scope. You will see two sets crosshairs. Use windage and elevation adjustment make one set crosshairs.
Faster than counting clicks
Centers crosshairs back in center of scope tube

 

[deewayne2003]

I had a similar issues with one of my rifles and the issues were not the Talley rings but the holes on top of the action for mounting the bases or rings were not properly aligned.

I had the same issue with a custom .257wby built on a Zastava Mauser action.

The action was brand new in the white and didn’t realize the hole were miss aligned until after the rifle was built and finished.

The only option was to use the Leupold windage adjustable base.

 

[86thecat]

Mirror trick insures the croashairs are centered. Counting clicks can still leave crosshairs off center if scope is damaged internally. A small mirror can be used with scope still mounted. A mirror with non-paralell surfaces might leave you a couple clicks off, but will be very close to centered. A quick Google will find a vid.
Also, rifles have been built with receiver faces not square and canted barrels that cause a problem if everything else is ok. Just something else to check.

 

[Stompbox]

I have had the same problem several times with pre 64 model 70 rifles while trying to fit Talley bases and rings on them. I have placed the receivers in a mill vice and indicated the center of the receiver and then checked the positioning of the screw holes and every time they are out of alignment, but usually not so bad that I cannot open them up, on location, to #8-40 threaded holes and use the Talley Model 70 #8-40 bases. Otherwise, as mentioned by somebody on this thread previously, I will use windage adjustable bases and Burris signature rings.

 

[rookhawk]

@Houston Bill and @Ridge Runner had spot on points above.

I’d epoxy those bases with loosened screws on top, using the two rings and a lapping bar to keep it true while it sets up. I’d then properly torque the screws knowing the lapping bar and rings run true parallel to the bore.

this is an uncommon problem with pre-64s, but a very common problem with Rem 700s. With the former, its just drilled and tapped out of alignment, with the latter its that the whole action is out of square.

You don’t have a huge problem on your hands, but you do have some work to do. (Or farm it out for $150-$200 to a skilled gunsmith)

 

[uplander01]

+1 on lapping, had this issue before myself. Doesn't take much usually to get it straight

 

[rookhawk]

Apologies if this is obvious to the OP, I don't mean to be condescending but it may be worth restating the installation process for Talley rings in case that's the issue.

1.) Remove top screws completely
2.) Soak interior of rings, and the scope or lapping bar with a very thin oil like Kroil. (To prevent scratches during adjustment)
3.) In gentle, alternating fashion, tighten the front and back of each ring's bottom screws to 25-30 INCH pounds.
4.) Double check that they attach correctly to the mounts, loosening and re-torquing until you have them in line with the mounts.
5.) Tighten the rings to the mounts using the QD lever or bolt to 25-30 INCH pounds
6.) Adjust eye relief
7.) When perfect, crosshairs collumated, tighten the top screws gentle in small increments until they achieve 20 INCH pounds.

If you didn't follow this procedure, you may have introduced the issue of insufficient adjustment remaining in the turrets.

 

[pilar]

Apologies if this is obvious to the OP, I don't mean to be condescending but it may be worth restating the installation process for Talley rings in case that's the issue.

1.) Remove top screws completely
2.) Soak interior of rings, and the scope or lapping bar with a very thin oil like Kroil. (To prevent scratches during adjustment)
3.) In gentle, alternating fashion, tighten the front and back of each ring's bottom screws to 25-30 INCH pounds.
4.) Double check that they attach correctly to the mounts, loosening and re-torquing until you have them in line with the mounts.
5.) Tighten the rings to the mounts using the QD lever or bolt to 25-30 INCH pounds
6.) Adjust eye relief
7.) When perfect, crosshairs collumated, tighten the top screws gentle in small increments until they achieve 20 INCH pounds.

If you didn't follow this procedure, you may have introduced the issue of insufficient adjustment remaining in the turrets.

They aren’t QD rings , tally think they “ might be defective “ and are sending a new pair
but most of your instructions are correct, tighten bottom then tops in alternating pattern like a tire rim according to tally

 

[rookhawk]

They aren’t QD rings , tally think they “ might be defective “ and are sending a new pair
but most of your instructions are correct, tighten bottom then tops in alternating pattern like a tire rim according to tally

Correct, but for clarity the bottoms are torqued before any screw is placed in the top sections. If the bottom rings aren't torqued completely tight to each hemisphere, it will introduce unwanted windage.

 

[fourfive8]

Insert headless screws into all scope base holes in action. Put rifle in cradle or gun vice or something similar. Put large black bull out at 25-50 yards. Sight down bore and along screws. You should be able to see any significant mis-alignment between mounting holes and bore line. That will help indicate probable root of issue or at least where to begin to correct it. KISS

Also, if there is significant mis-alignment, lapping will likely not provide enough correction. I lap all my ring mounts but that is to prevent scope bind and damage and to provide more positive contact friction between rings and scope, not to correct gross elevation or windage mis-alignment.