South Africa - CBL "Captive Bred Lion Hunt" progress

[Frederik]

With the announcement of our Minister of Environment to ban "CBL" lions I was forced to rethink my ideas of 2021.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics...-hunting-0c9739f2-2ea8-427c-bc0c-b6227c72b7eb

I would hate it to go through the rest of my life without hunting my own lion. I am a paint contractor who works hard to keep things a float Covid was not very helpfull with full lockdown last year and the year start off with a real dump. It almost killed my small business comprising of 8 painters and myself.
But we are slowly getting back on our feet and although it doesnt make sense to spend so much on a hunt now, it does make sense if you are a hunter and know this might be your last chance in your life.

So with some background I created this thread to throw in some random info and feelings of my whole adventure.
I would like it if people who are against CBL lions to keep the negative thoughts to themselves or on another thread. What I'm going to do is completely legal it will be done through an operation that is registered with SAPA South African Predators association only 8 such Farms exist in RSA with norms and standards approved by both SAPA and PHASA.

So here goes it feels like ages ago but for a good few years 2006 to 2011 I hunted full time Professionally and was also an Outfitter in RSA so I have been only plenty of adventures with clients in a lot of areas in Africa seen a lot standing next to a cleint or behind a camera lens when filming. With that background and knowing what to expect on a hunt like this I feel a lot of anticipation and expectations with a good dose of exitement. There is definitely a big difference being on a hunt as quide to doing the hunt yourself with the case of a lion I can feel the exitement already.

In short I will never hunt a real wild lion unless something drastic happens the cost is just too much and shooting such from a blind would also not be a hunt for me. Please I am not bashing hunting from a blind it is just not the way I want to do it, I have sat in many blinds with client and hunters and have shot some animals myself from a blind. But tracking a lion and not knowing the outcome of the firts contact is what I am after, for that lion to peer at me with those yellow eyes not showing any fear.

 

[mark-hunter]

Personally, I have not yet came to the level to wish or plan to hunt big cats (leopard included).
But I have nothing against, CBL hunt.
It is certainly an economic option for many people, compared to wild lion hunting in other countries, which is well above my reach.

South Africa is specific, and this subject is very delicate.
I wonder how they will define (ban) CBL hunting on the south african farms which are all fenced?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

It would be really nice if if these CBL programmes had a proportion that must be returned to the wild, or maybe a portion of the revenue go to anti poaching or the like. Ticks the box.

 

[RockSlinger404]

I'm in the same boat as Frederik, I've also booked a CBL hunt. All my references echoed the same, a CBL hunt (tracking the lion on foot) is a lot more exciting than hunting from a blind. The lions that we'll be hunting are released 3 months before and the average age is about 8 years I've been told.

 

[Frederik]

It would be really nice if if these CBL programmes had a proportion that must be returned to the wild, or maybe a portion of the revenue go to anti poaching or the like. Ticks the box.

Kevin,

That is exactly what the breeders are looking for as all the lions in the greater Kruger Park are all infected with feline TB. Its not the only reason why they breed with lion but definitely one to keep a good gene pool to replenish if needed.

It has been proven that these CBL lions can and will adapt in the wild on their own. Its just that they are not allowed to be moved into national parks.

Any breeder please correct me if I have any facts wrong!

 

[mark-hunter]

@Frederik,
You are right. CB lions are possbile to reintroduce into the wild.

Lioness Elsa, around 1956, was (I think) the first recorded case of lion cussefuly reintroduced into the wild (book: Bonr free, Joy Adamson).
And there is very recent case, when Mark Haldane, has reintroduced succefsully CBL pack of 24 lions to Zambezi delta, just few years ago.

 

[375Fox]

@Frederik,
You are right. CB lions are possbile to reintroduce into the wild.
And there is very recent case, when Mark Haldane, has reintroduced succefsully CBL pack of 24 lions to Zambezi delta, just few years ago.

This is incorrect. They did not use lions from lion farming operations. There is a major difference in using a lion living wild on a fenced property vs a farmed lion, calling them all “CBL” is incorrect.

 

[mark-hunter]

Your comment, @375Fox , noted.

 

[rinehart0050]

We added a lion hunt on to our first RSA safari and I'm very glad we did. The intensity and excitement of being on foot, in the open, eye to eye with an apex predator like a lion is indescribable. Enjoy your hunt, as I suspect this style won't be available much longer.

From an ethics standpoint, I really don't see the difference between a CBL lion hunt and a Buffalo or sable that has also spent its life behind a fence.

Here's the report of our hunt:

SOUTH AFRICA: Adventure Of A Lifetime With Umlilo Safaris & Limcroma Safaris

Synopsis: Just got back from South Africa, where my wife and I, along with my parents, just finished the most amazing adventure (vacation doesn't do it credit) of our lives. We hunted with two different outfitters- @Umlilo Safaris and @Limcroma Safaris. Both absolutely exceeded our every...

www.africahunting.com

 

[rinehart0050]

This is incorrect. They did not use lions from lion farming operations. There is a major difference in using a lion living wild on a fenced property vs a farmed lion, calling them all “CBL” is incorrect.

There seems to be some evidence to the contrary:

 

[375Fox]

There seems to be some evidence to the contrary:

The is a huge difference between releasing lions into a relatively small fenced property as a publicity stunt without future follow up vs the 24 lions introduced into Mozambique as a permanent conservation effort. It would be very difficult to prove to me any conservation value has come from farming lions.

 

[Frederik]

375Fox, I'm not going to disagree with you on your point of view but is there any proof that there as been ample chance for CBL lions to be introduced in a complete wild area?
What I am trying to get at is that there is a far as I know not been the opportunity to try it due to red tape.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Best of wishes Fredrik. My thoughts align with yours, and I would follow a similar path eventually. That said, I don't believe my personal timeline for finally starting any efforts at getting to Africa are going to happen fast enough; my plane leaves Dillingham today for Anchorage, and then onto Africa for the first time a few days after that. My finances probably mean I am likely, at best, an every other year candidate, maybe. And that would/will be wonderful if so.

Lion remains on my bucket list no matter what. When my life is done I hope I still have things left on my assorted bucket lists. If I do it'll just mean I ran out of time. If I don't it'll mean I should have had more on the lists and I gave up too soon. As a former sprinter a lifetime ago... run through the finish line, not to it.

Good thread sir. Thanks for starting it for those of us in a similar boat.

 

[C.W. Richter]

There is an interesting article/post somewhere regarding Wild Managed Lions. It seems the happy-medium solution for affordable sport hunting these days...

 

[Tanks]

There is an interesting article/post somewhere regarding Wild Managed Lions. It seems the happy-medium solution for affordable sport hunting these days...

I think that is the way to go as a compromise. Yes, more expensive than a pure CBL but at the same time also less objectionable. And still much, much less expensive than a true wild lion hunt in other countries.

What I'm going to do is completely legal it will be done through an operation that is registered with SAPA South African Predators association only 8 such Farms exist in RSA with norms and standards approved by both SAPA and PHASA.

I researched this a bit. Those farms still release the lion you pick (via the pricing level) into the hunting area 72 hours (minimum) prior to the hunt. Not much of a standard as far as I am concerned.

From an ethics standpoint, I really don't see the difference between a CBL lion hunt and a Buffalo or sable that has also spent its life behind a fence.

I agree for the most part, though I'd venture the buffalo and the sable are probably more free roaming within the fenced area than CBLs. It would be interesting to find out what the CBLs' life and accommodations prior to being relocated to the hunt area. How they are fed, how they are lodged, total area for roaming etc., etc..

 

[rinehart0050]

I think that is the way to go as a compromise. Yes, more expensive than a pure CBL but at the same time also less objectionable. And still much, much less expensive than a true wild lion hunt in other countries.



I researched this a bit. Those farms still release the lion you pick (via the pricing level) into the hunting area 72 hours (minimum) prior to the hunt. Not much of a standard as far as I am concerned.



I agree for the most part, though I'd venture the buffalo and the sable are probably more free roaming within the fenced area than CBLs. It would be interesting to find out what the CBLs' life and accommodations prior to being relocated to the hunt area. How they are fed, how they are lodged, total area for roaming etc., etc..

@Tanks agreed. I think after the last uproar over CBL, some outfitters transitioned to having a pride living on their property rather than bringing them in for a hunt. Not sure how widespread this is though.

I have seen buffalo and sable kept in separate smaller enclosures within a concession to encourage breeding. I don't know when they move a bull from such an area into the hunting area of a concession.

 

[Philip Glass]

There is an interesting article/post somewhere regarding Wild Managed Lions. It seems the happy-medium solution for affordable sport hunting these days...

But there are very very few of them

 

[Philip Glass]

First of all it is certainly possible to release captive animals into the wild successfully. Sure lions are tricky but some of them will live. It’s just ignorant to say otherwise.
The whole CBL controversy is pure racism. One animal can be raised in a pen but not another. All of the hunting organizations who have banned Having anything to do with CBL are terrible hypocrites of the worst variety.
Cecil and the antis won!

 

[375Fox]

The whole CBL controversy is pure racism.

Been watching a lot of CNN lately? Lol

 

[Frederik]

Thanks for sharing you report Rhinehart0050.