Solids?

[Daniel Cary]

I've heard it mentioned, CEB's are arguably the best Solid today.
What about, or what differs Woodleigh's Hydros? This quote comes from Federals site: "The task was to design a bullet that would bridge the gap between traditional expanding bullets and modern solids"

If anyone care to elaborate on that quote, .. I'd be gracious.
Thank You.

 

[Red Leg]

I have used the 300gr Woodleigh Hydro on large black bear and an assortment of PG from Suni through Waterbuck. They are a very good solid. They act like any other solid. Were I off to brain an elephant. they would be superb choice. For suni, oribi, duiker and friends they made perfect .375 taxidermy friendly holes going and coming. On everything else in between, they killed as slowly as any other solid. I have relegated them to the little guys (or that eventual pachyderm). An A Frame is a far superior solution.

 

[AimSmall]

A solid option in your smaller bores as well, the CEB is available for 264 and 308. 130gr CEB solid out of a 6.5Creedmoor is very accurate and deadly on the tiny's.

 

[JvW]

The Hydro's leave a much bigger wound trail, in my experience. I've used them on impala, red hartebeest, eland, and buffalo. They penetrate like nothing else and they are soft on older barrels. The faster you can push them, the better. No experience with the CEB, though.

 

[318AE]

I’m not certain the exact question, but will try and help.

The primary purpose of a solid is utterly reliable penetration, even on poor shot angles. The metplat/blunt nose solids or hydros are best. The round nose solids may regulate the same as a soft in an older double, but don’t penetrate in a straight line as reliably (I’ve had a steel jacketed Woodleigh round nose solid rivet badly in the skull of an elephant). Solids are ironically the best choice for both the largest and smallest of game, as others have highlighted.

The hydro is intended to both penetrate extremely well, and create a larger wound channel than a traditional solid. In a second shot shot, at a fleeing buffalo, at an off angle through the rumen, I’d prefer a modern solid, such as a hydro, to a modern controlled expansion soft (ie A Frame etc). I respect that many PHs and knowledgeable clients feel differently. You’ll find proponents of either all modern softs, or modern softs followed by hydros or similar.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Perhaps Federal was designing a solid with petals up front that do their damage early then break away allowing the rear of the bullet to penetrate. Like a CEB safari raptor

I dug these CEB Safari Raptors out of a sand bank. The 3 on the left show the rear of the bullet with the front petals gone. The one on the right is the same bullet that the petals did not detach.

These were approximately 18-24” into a sand bank

 

[Daniel Cary]

I’m not certain the exact question, but will try and help.

The primary purpose of a solid is utterly reliable penetration, even on poor shot angles. The metplat/blunt nose solids or hydros are best. The round nose solids may regulate the same as a soft in an older double, but don’t penetrate in a straight line as reliably (I’ve had a steel jacketed Woodleigh round nose solid rivet badly in the skull of an elephant). Solids are ironically the best choice for both the largest and smallest of game, as others have highlighted.

The hydro is intended to both penetrate extremely well, and create a larger wound channel than a traditional solid. In a second shot shot, at a fleeing buffalo, at an off angle through the rumen, I’d prefer a modern solid, such as a hydro, to a modern controlled expansion soft (ie A Frame etc). I respect that many PHs and knowledgeable clients feel differently. You’ll find proponents of either all modern softs, or modern softs followed by hydros or similar.

"The hydro is intended to both penetrate extremely well, and create a larger wound channel than a traditional solid. You’ll find proponents of either all modern softs, or modern softs followed by hydros or similar."

When Federal quoted "Bridging the Gap between Traditional expanding bullets & modern solids", I got a little lost in the theory .. Thanks for the translation.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Trust me. I’m new to this big bore DG rifle game myself. I’m learning daily

 

[Daniel Cary]

Thank you, to all of the above for your time & experience. I did research Swifts A-Frame & opponents, just as well ..

 

[zephyr]

A CEB Raptor and a CEB Solid are two entirely different beasts. The Raptor is designed to shed it's petals and then the Base will continue on like a Solid exiting the animal. The Solid was designed for ultimate penetration

 

[Daniel Cary]

A CEB Raptor and a CEB Solid are two entirely different beasts. The Raptor is designed to shed it's petals and then the Base will continue on like a Solid exiting the animal. The Solid was designed for ultimate penetration

Thank you, the Raptor was another grey area projectile. I often wondered if people held it in high regard, to the contrary ..

 

[zephyr]

I have shot numerous game with the Raptor in calibers ranging from 338win to 505 Gibbs all with devastating results. Because it is a bore riding bullet it is also very gentle to double rifles especially older rifles producing the least amount of barrel strain compared to other bullets.
The only time I would not use a CEB Raptor is if I was shooting Buffalo in a herd situation like Mozambique as I would be concerned about the Bullet hitting other animals as it passes through the intended target

 

[Brandon.Gleason]

I've shot one elephant, and been present for one additional, with CEB solids in .416/400gr and .458/500gr. Both instances had no indication of bullet failure.

The CEB Raptors I've only used on whitetail so far (.308/100gr and .308/130gr). In a sample of 5 deer, all dropped at the shot. I'm planning to use one of those two bullets on a black bear next fall in Alaska. I'll be looking for another cape buffalo hunt for 2025 at SCI this year, and will likely use CEB Raptors in .375/275gr and/or .458/470gr for that hunt.

Woodleigh's theory with the Hydro design was hydraulic displacement at the nose of the bullet (via the concave nose) creating a fluid bubble around the front. This was said to lead to a larger than caliber permanent wound channel and less extrinsic disruption to the bullet, resulting in more straight line penetration. I've 60 or so of the .375/300gr Hydros in my reloading room. They shot very well on load development and paired well with .375/300gr PP's, but I have not tried them on game.

 

[baxterb]

woodleighs do this:

 

[Daniel Cary]

I've shot one elephant, and been present for one additional, with CEB solids in .416/400gr and .458/500gr. Both instances had no indication of bullet failure.

The CEB Raptors I've only used on whitetail so far (.308/100gr and .308/130gr). In a sample of 5 deer, all dropped at the shot. I'm planning to use one of those two bullets on a black bear next fall in Alaska. I'll be looking for another cape buffalo hunt for 2025 at SCI this year, and will likely use CEB Raptors in .375/275gr and/or .458/470gr for that hunt.

Woodleigh's theory with the Hydro design was hydraulic displacement at the nose of the bullet (via the concave nose) creating a fluid bubble around the front. This was said to lead to a larger than caliber permanent wound channel and less extrinsic disruption to the bullet, resulting in more straight line penetration. I've 60 or so of the .375/300gr Hydros in my reloading room. They shot very well on load development and paired well with .375/300gr PP's, but I have not tried them on game.

Another good written theory with regards to the Hydro. ty.

 

[Daniel Cary]

I have shot numerous game with the Raptor in calibers ranging from 338win to 505 Gibbs all with devastating results. Because it is a bore riding bullet it is also very gentle to double rifles especially older rifles producing the least amount of barrel strain compared to other bullets.
The only time I would not use a CEB Raptor is if I was shooting Buffalo in a herd situation like Mozambique as I would be concerned about the Bullet hitting other animals as it passes through the intended target

Really, that devastating .. unbelievable. What is a "Bore Riding Bullet", or if you care to dilute that. If you can, Many Thanks.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Trust me. I’m new to this big bore DG rifle game myself. I’m learning daily

Likewise, I even skipped Black Bear this year .. One year, someone threw a botchy 45-70 shot on 470lbs, it killed another's dog, followed up with a shotgun, it was a mess.
Handed him the 500 Jeffery on another occasion.

All Game is potentially dangerous.

 

[Nevada Mike]

To quote my PH in Tanzania when asked if I should bring some solids on my buff hunt... "Sure. Bring a few as we may need to shoot in heavy brush."

I never even loaded any into the magazine.

 

[zephyr]

Do you shoot left or right handed?

To quote my PH in Tanzania when asked if I should bring some solids on my buff hunt... "Sure. Bring a few as we may need to shoot in heavy brush."

I never even loaded any into the magazine.

For Buff and Ele I usually bring more Solids than Softs

 

[michael458]

I've heard it mentioned, CEB's are arguably the best Solid today.

Fact. Zero doubt, the only contender is the modern North Fork Solids, notice the similarities in design.......

What about, or what differs Woodleigh's Hydros? This quote comes from Federals site: "The task was to design a bullet that would bridge the gap between traditional expanding bullets and modern solids"

This is basically a true statement........... A Woodleigh Hydro is not a "Deep Diving" solid, like the CEB or North Fork Solids above. It is equatable and similar to a North Fork CUP POINT Solid, that does not expand......... Prior owner of North Fork, and good friend of mine John Keogler explained the North Fork CPS like this........... The Cup Point fools the medium, tissue into believing the Meplat Size is actually larger than the diameter of the bullet, which it is. The larger meplat going deeper in the Cup Point is responsible for more tissue destruction, just as a larger meplat solid would impart. The Hydro works about the same way. By causing more tissue damage than a deep diving solid, they do not penetrate as deep as the superior designed Deep Divers, but far deeper than any of your traditional premium conventional expanding bullets. So indeed, they do bridge the gap between expanding bullets, or trauma inflicting bullets and the Deep Diving Solids......... they are in between the two.