Scope suggestions please

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Regardless, use Quick Detach Rings and bring an extra scope, my Swar on a .375 malfunction after the first shot of the Safari, ended up sharing my daughter's shortened .270 WSM, since, I have packed an extra, already sighted in and of course have never needed it !!

Been there and done half that. I'll be back to RSA next year and an extra scope will be with me, guarantee I won't need it when I have it!

 

[Velo Dog]

I have a Leupold 2-7x on my .375 RUM. I've used it hunting in Zimbabwe and on two PG hunts in South Africa. I had absolutely no trouble making shots with it on animals from Steenbok to Buffalo, and at ranges from 30 to 350 yards.

I also have a Leupold VX-1 4-12x on my .300 Weatherby. I've used it on several Western US hunts, one South African PG hunt, and on a hunt in New Zealand. I've easily made shots with it at ranges from 50 yards to a Klipspringer at 314 yards.



Just out of curiosity, what do you disagree with Boddington on about Weatherby rifles/cartridges?

Hello Buffbr,

He likes them and I don't....just kidding....not really....sort of.....well....OK.

Truly I am not offended by people who think I waste my money on things like English, French or Turkish walnut, claw mounts and such likes.
Please don't be offended by my opinion, it is nothing more than that.

That being said, the Weatherby line for me has been as follows:

When I was 16, a friend's older brother bought a new MK V in .300 Wby and put a new Redfield 3 to 9x scope on it, via Conetrol brand rings.
We all went to the local rifle range.
He brought Wby factory ammo.
I fired one round through it and it bruised my cheek.

Being in a boxing league at that time, I could take a punch but, that felt like someone hit me in the face with a piece of lumber.
I had my uncut 03-A3 Smith-Corona Springfield .30-06 and some surplus (USA) ammo (Sgt York woulda been proud).
With it - peep sight and all - I clobbered the Wby owner in a casual shoot-off, at the 300 yd gong, from, bench, sitting, and off-hand.
He was all over the back-stop with his outfit (flinching, no doubt).

In my 20s, Gunsmith Ray Spiegle (Chico CA) showed me that when he smoked the lugs on a Wby MK V and ran the bolt a couple times, only 3 of the 9 lugs actually touched anything in there.
He said he's seen them with as few as 2 touching, but no more than 4 touching, ever.

I then moved to Alaska, still in my 20s.
Here I met a man who hobbled around.
He told me he had been a Guide on Kodiak.
A client winged a bear.

Said guide was mauled badly and nearly died because he (Guide) had killed the bear in mid-charge with his .340 Wby but the factory live ammo seized in the chamber upon his first shot (too much pressure) and el bear did not agree that he (bear) was dead just yet (their hearts only beat about 11 times per minute).
He (bear) pressed his charge home and really chewed the Guide quite badly, then agreed with this whole Weatherby super-velocity formidable killing power concept and finally died.

Now, my interest in Africa has me reading many books and articles on same.
PH Robin Hurt wrote (I believe it was in Terry Weiland's Book "Dangerous Game Rifles") that he experienced the same thing from a Mk V, also possibly in .340 caliber, or .378 (can't remember right now), in hot weather but fortunately, it was not against dangerous game.

Last but not least are the aesthetics.
I will just say that my idea of a good looking bolt action rifle is currently being advertised for sale in this Forum's Classified / For Sale section (.404 Jeffery to be built), complete with photos by the seller.
To my whacky eye, that is a fine rifle, anything short of that is not so much so.

I apologize for the tedious length of this thing and I apologize in multiples if my opinion has offended you or anyone else.
My intent was only to answer your question and definitely not to offend.

"One man's bread is another man's poison".

My very best regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[tarbe]

Velo Dog

I bet if you and your buddy switched rifles, you still would have out-shot him.

Any rifle will miss or wound when a hack is on the trigger!

For sure, the California canoe paddle look is not for me, either!

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog

I bet if you and your buddy switched rifles, you still would have out-shot him.

Any rifle will miss or wound when a hack is on the trigger!

For sure, the California canoe paddle look is not for me, either!

Tarbe,

Thanks for that vote of confidence but, after being whacked in the face by it, I was at least as much afraid of that thing as he was.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

 

[Stocky]

Gee, I thought I was the only kid whacked by a Weatherby. First shot out of one when I was 16 split my glasses clean in half.

 

[tarbe]

All right, confession time.

I bought my first Weatherby when I was 17. It was a Vanguard, so only a semi-Weatherby. It was in 7MM Remington Mag.

I loaded all sorts of Hornady and Nosler Partitions in that thing and they all shot well with IMR 4350 and 4831.

Second Weatherby was 25 years later, a Mark V Alaskan in 375 H&H.

That's it, I promise!!

Holy thread drift Batman! I'm out!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

So back on the topic of scopes, count me amongst those with no fear of upper end magnification. But, I also respect that in thick brush, you need to make sure that the low end is low enough to make the shot. It used to be that I would draw a Coues deer tag here in AZ on a somewhat regular basis, but for goodness sakes it's been awhile. But when I did, I developed a strong appreciation for scopes with high power. Picking out a brownish/grey small deer on a brownish/grey hillside with thick brush around in your scope can be a challenge. Can it be done with a 4x/6x scope? Perhaps. Is it easier with a 12-20x scope, you bet it is.

Do you run into long shots on small targets often in Africa? Not from what I can tell, but those Vaal Rhebok in the Eastern Cape seem to fit that bill. Or Klipspringer in the rocks.

My advice, something with a low end in the 2-4x range and at the upper end, 9-12x range. In those special cases mentioned, go even higher.

 

[enysse]

Phil absolutely a top end scope with a variable range will bring versatility to the hunt. Not everyone wants to hunt a steenbok but if one stepped out and I could see 6 inch horns on the head, I would hope I could make the shot, because if I couldn't I would be super upset!

 

[Velo Dog]

Gee, I thought I was the only kid whacked by a Weatherby. First shot out of one when I was 16 split my glasses clean in half.

Stocky,

I feel your pain brother.

Call me a sissy or whatever, I careth naught, perhaps it's even true.

But, for my taste in dreaded .30 belted magnums, the original H&H version seems to kill the living daylights out of everything I've ever shot with it, on two continents now.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

So back on the topic of scopes, count me amongst those with no fear of upper end magnification. But, I also respect that in thick brush, you need to make sure that the low end is low enough to make the shot. It used to be that I would draw a Coues deer tag here in AZ on a somewhat regular basis, but for goodness sakes it's been awhile. But when I did, I developed a strong appreciation for scopes with high power. Picking out a brownish/grey small deer on a brownish/grey hillside with thick brush around in your scope can be a challenge. Can it be done with a 4x/6x scope? Perhaps. Is it easier with a 12-20x scope, you bet it is.

Do you run into long shots on small targets often in Africa? Not from what I can tell, but those Vaal Rhebok in the Eastern Cape seem to fit that bill. Or Klipspringer in the rocks.

My advice, something with a low end in the 2-4x range and at the upper end, 9-12x range. In those special cases mentioned, go even higher.

PHOENIX PHIL,

I've not hunted Coues Deer but have seen them in AZ (my sister lives there).
Seems to me that a sort of heavyish barreled 6mm or .25-06 or 6.5x284, etc., etc., topped with about a 10x or 12x scope would be about right for that.
However, you are correct that such shooting conditions are not very common in most of Africa.
Not saying those conditions do not ever exist in places like The Eastern Cape, or Namibia.
Perhaps sometimes they do.
I have not experienced such as that yet in 4 safaris.

In Namibia however, I did experience some long shots (similar geography to much of Arizona) but, it seemed like I could see most of the ones I sacked with my naked eye, prior to aiming at them.
In other words, trying to find some tiny and well camouflaged animal through your rifle scope, concealed in thick foliage at 3 or 4 hundred yards is not very typical of hunting conditions in most of Africa, as far as I can tell.
A hunter who is accustomed to proper stalking techniques, would probably do fairly well in most locations with an iron sighted shotgun, loaded with old fashioned rifled slugs or, as many do, with archery tackle.
I have had very good luck with a 4x scope, then a 2.5x scope, open/"express" sights and 4 different calibers.
Huge scopes and blistering velocity/boat tail bullets, etc., are not really needed in most conditions over there.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

 

[Velo Dog]

All right, confession time.

I bought my first Weatherby when I was 17. It was a Vanguard, so only a semi-Weatherby. It was in 7MM Remington Mag.

I loaded all sorts of Hornady and Nosler Partitions in that thing and they all shot well with IMR 4350 and 4831.

Second Weatherby was 25 years later, a Mark V Alaskan in 375 H&H.

That's it, I promise!!

Holy thread drift Batman! I'm out!

Tarbe,

No to worry, when I was in High School, as a result of reading Outdoor Life, Guns & Ammo, etc., I too wanted one.
Prior to firing that .300, the only reason I didn't buy one is because I couldn't afford it at age 16.
Being poor saved me from myself.
After the earlier mentioned trip to the rifle range, resulting in a bruised cheek (but a glorious victory for me and my $40. Springfield), I lost all interest in them.

I promise, promise, promise to stop ripping off this thread.

Yours Truly,
Velo Dog.

 

[enysse]

Sorry for getting off the subject, but we all learn a little from the posts. I think any one could take bits and pieces from them for their next scope purchase.

 

[tarbe]

I am going to need scopes to put onto the two rifles I am building for my trip. For the 375 H&H I am wanting a 1-4 or 1-6 magnification and want to hear which ones you all have used and what you do and don't like about them. I will be in the bushveld(?) in SA so don't plan on real long shots.

For my 300 H&H (probably) I do not know a good power magnification to use. I think I read some people prefer 2-9ish for this. I am looking at getting scopes around a $1000 or so. Any thoughts would greatly help.

Please move this to proper section I just realized I put this under the wrong category.

For $2k total, I don't know how far wrong you could possibly go with a Leupold VX-6 1 - 6X on the .375 and a VX-6 2 - 12X on the .300.

 

[Parsons]

Well the thread hasn't been the most informative on scopes haha but has gave me a lot of things to look into and I am pretty sure my interest in build a .300 WBY is gone.

I went to cabelas and gander mtn yesterday and only got to look through one scope that was a 1-4x magnification. It was a Vortex which I like pretty well but it was a tactical model so didn't really help. No where local carries the VX-6 leupolds. May look at a few stores when I am at the beach for the next few days.

 

[Parsons]

As someone mentioned earlier I am thinking about uses for the scopes besides Africa. Both my deer this year were taken within 35 yards probably. I know the second one was within 20 yards. I live in mountains so the need for a high powered scope still isn't needed here.

 

[enysse]

I'm guessing unless you are at a good Cabelas you won't see the best of Leupold, but I think if you ordered one, you would never return it. Vortex scopes are nice, just not great eye relief unless things have changed from the last time I handled one.

 

[Parsons]

Well i have had a few guys in class have a couple problems with the last couple they ordered. one of them had a messed up reticle. Not a different one than they ordered but the reticle was not complete and another wouldn't hold zero. So i am just a little nervous even though I know every company has a few slip past QC

 

[rnovi]

I've owned quite a few Leupolds and would not hesitate for a minute to buy another.

 

[Parsons]

alright good to know. I will probably pick up the leupolds then especially since we get a deal on them while in school.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

PHOENIX PHIL,

I've not hunted Coues Deer but have seen them in AZ (my sister lives there).
Seems to me that a sort of heavyish barreled 6mm or .25-06 or 6.5x284, etc., etc., topped with about a 10x or 12x scope would be about right for that.
However, you are correct that such shooting conditions are not very common in most of Africa.
Not saying those conditions do not ever exist in places like The Eastern Cape, or Namibia.
Perhaps sometimes they do.
I have not experienced such as that yet in 4 safaris.

In Namibia however, I did experience some long shots (similar geography to much of Arizona) but, it seemed like I could see most of the ones I sacked with my naked eye, prior to aiming at them.
In other words, trying to find some tiny and well camouflaged animal through your rifle scope, concealed in thick foliage at 3 or 4 hundred yards is not very typical of hunting conditions in most of Africa, as far as I can tell.
A hunter who is accustomed to proper stalking techniques, would probably do fairly well in most locations with an iron sighted shotgun, loaded with old fashioned rifled slugs or, as many do, with archery tackle.
I have had very good luck with a 4x scope, then a 2.5x scope, open/"express" sights and 4 different calibers.
Huge scopes and blistering velocity/boat tail bullets, etc., are not really needed in most conditions over there.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

Your caliber choices would work just fine. I personally use a 7mm Rem Mag, but a gent I know that easily has killed more Coues deer than I'm sure most hunters will ever see, he's still hunting at 70 plus years old, has killed most of his with a 6mm.

A 10X scope however would not be my choice. While it can and most certainly has been done, this would be in my mind crossing the fine line to the realm of what can versus what should be done. Coues hunting is a glassing game where you sit on one side of a canyon and cover the other side with binoculars....back and forth, back and forth...using 15X minimum binoculars mounted on a tri-pod. In the earlier thus warmer seasons, you'll cover the same spot on a thick hillside any number of times and then suddenly on your umpteenth pass across some particular spot you'll see something different. If it's a buck you want, you'll then very carefully mark the spot by checking above/below and left/right, because the next challenge is finding that same spot with your rifle scope. Once you find the spot, you then need to find the deer. Can it be done on 10X? Perhaps, but I'll continue to use my 6.5-20x scope. 20x on a Coues deer at 300 yards is not overkill.

Sometimes you'll catch a Coues out in the open and it's not as difficult as I just described. But when they drift into the live oaks, the recipe is patience and good strong glass.