Scope options for a big bore

[GreenOne]

Hey guys,

I have been a lurker here for a while and have finally stepped into the realm of the big bore. I just purchased a 458 Lott and am looking at glass options. I am new to actually owning a big bore rifle. I have shot many up to the 600 NE but as I start looking at glass I am not sure what will hold up over time to the recoil. Any help and experience would be appreciated.

Side note. I have a pretty crazy idea for the glass on this rifle. I live in Alaska and do a fair amount a bear hunting. I am thinking of using quick detach mounts for the scope and sighting the scope in for lighter loads, 350's ish, and then having the irons dialed for the 500 gr bullets. The thinking behind this is for the most part the scope will be the main aiming objective but if for some reason things go sideways and I am after a wounded bear I could load the heavys if I am in the brush. I know this is a different way of thinking and carrying two different kinds of ammo comes with it own challenges but let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I find my old model VX6 (not HD) has good eye relief, and is rugged enough for the purpose. Leupold has a very good warranty also. I suggest a minimum power between 1 and 2.

These guys know there stuff and if you give them a budget they will tell you the best options.

Also welcome to AH

 

[Ridgewalker]

I carry two scopes in Warne QR mounts. Both are the older model Leupold VX-6. One is a 1-6x and the other a 2-12x. Both have illuminated dots which I really like particularly in low light conditions on dark animals such as bear or cape buffalo. They are mounted on a 375 H&H, so the recoil is nothing like your 458 Lott, but I’m certain they will hold up.
I use the 1-6x with heavy bullets for DG and the 2-12x with lighter bullets for PG. it also gives me a backup scope just in case.
I have used the Leupold stud type QR mounts and they return to 0 well, but...they are almost impossible, at least for my old hands, to get them loose. They have very small levers!

Best of luck in finding what works for you!

 

[GreenOne]

I find my old model VX6 (not HD) has good eye relief, and is rugged enough for the purpose. Leupold has a very good warranty also. I suggest a minimum power between 1 and 2.

These guys know there stuff and if you give them a budget they will tell you the best options.

Also welcome to AH

Answering the budget question. I don't have one. I am looking at all options. I am looking for something that is going to hold up to the recoil over time. Now to qualify that. I am sure that there are scopes out there like the nightforce that are super burley but not really in line with the accoutrements of a big bore.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I carry two scopes in Warne QR mounts. Both are the older model Leupold VX-6. One is a 1-6x and the other a 2-12x. Both have illuminated dots which I really like particularly in low light conditions on dark animals such as bear or cape buffalo. They are mounted on a 375 H&H, so the recoil is nothing like your 458 Lott, but I’m certain they will hold up.
I use the 1-6x with heavy bullets for DG and the 2-12x with lighter bullets for PG. it also gives me a backup scope just in case.
I have used the Leupold stud type QR mounts and they return to 0 well, but...they are almost impossible, at least for my old hands, to get them loose. They have very small levers!

Best of luck in finding what works for you!

I had the stud leupold mounts and was not impressed. When I upgraded scope I went from 1” to 30mm, so I went with Talley mounts and QD rings. They work every time.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Wyatt, I think the Talley and Warne are almost identical in design.

GreenOne, Swarovski makes excellent and rugged 1-6x and 1-8x scopes, but you can almost by two top Leupolds for one of them. But, if price is no object, you might look at them as well.

A lower cost, but also rugged option in Leupold would be the VX5. I have a couple of those. One on a Tikka Lite in 300 WM which kicks a bit. It has held up well. A dual scope system in them could be 1-5x and 2-10x. Both can be had with illuminated dots as well.

Lots of options out there, but like I’ve said, I’d look into the illuminated dot. I love mine and am slowly putting one on every rifle.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Answering the budget question. I don't have one. I am looking at all options. I am looking for something that is going to hold up to the recoil over time. Now to qualify that. I am sure that there are scopes out there like the nightforce that are super burley but not really in line with the accoutrements of a big bore.

Nightforce makes an excellent big bore scope, I’ve had one on a 505 Gibbs for several years and it will handle anything. The Swarovski 1-8
Trijicon 1-8 are also excellent scopes. I don’t think you need to get over 8 power with a Lott, even shooting light bullets. I have a 1-6 EOTech Vudu on my Lott and it is plenty of scope for anything I’m going to do with it.

 

[Newboomer]

I have Leupold illuminated reticles on all my rifles including my 375HH. They stand up to anything and keep going. I really like the red dot even in daylight. It shows dark animals in shade well when I can't pick up crosshairs. I tried Vortex but they don't seem to be as sharp as Leupold so now I have a couple in the safe. Good backup, I guess.

 

[Fastrig]

Leopoldo VX6 or VX6HD 1-6 and 2x12 on QD mounts would be an excellent setup IMO...or the 2x12 plus the iron sights if you put the practice time in for 50 yards and closer with irons.

 

[Luvthunt]

I had a 458Lott put together during the late 1980s and have fired between 800 and 900 rounds of hvy reloads. The scope I put on it originally is still there. It is a Leupold Vx 2 in the 1x4 heavy duplex ? It was marketed as a shotgun/ muzzleloader scope.
I have never found it to be less then I needed for a Lott and if it was not for my age I would plan any trip that I might need a 45o Lott I would be fully confident in the Leupold product.
Originally I had the receiver drilled and tapped for a Lyman 57 peep sight and several times in the first couple of years the scope was removed and I practiced with the peep sight. I believe it is good to have a backup but never used it in any hunting scenario.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello GreenOne,

Khomas Highland Hunting Safaris of Namibia, welcomes you to the best forum on earth.

Whatever scope you are considering, do be sure it has generous eye relief.
The Lott is a serious kicker and could easily drive a scope tube edge through your flesh and hard against the skull.

The lighter the scope weight, the more likely it is to not slip during heavy recoil.
Variable power scopes tend to be heavier than similar dimensioned ones.
For quick detachable rings, I like Alaska Arms brand, not because I live here but because they are the sturdiest ones I’ve seen that don’t look like an industrial pipe fitting.

Also, your idea of scoping the .458 Lott for lighter bullets and regulating the irons for heavier ones is not impossible.
However, I personally would just shoot only 400 grain Swift A-Frame bullets for everything in N. America that I’d be inclined to hunt with this caliber and use a very low powered scope for all scenarios.
It would also do quite well for the majority of African game, except in geography where extra long shots might be needed.
Likewise, I’d simply regulate my iron sights to this same load, in case of a scope failure in the Bush.

My .458 Lott has only “express sights” on it.
The rear sight blade is a wide, shallow “V” and the front is a low ramp/blade, with an oversized white bead.
It is surprisingly accurate with such coarse looking sights.
For me it is a highly specialized rifle, dedicated to heavy bullets and iron sights (in case a brontosaurus tries to sit on my house).

My favorite hunting rifle, both here in Alaska and elsewhere, is my Brno 602 Magnum, in caliber .375 H&H, with an older, now discontinued model Zeiss 4x scope, in Alaska rings.
If you don’t already own a .375, not to worry, just bashing around in this forum will eventually compel you to get one.

Last but not least, since I too live in AK, Anchorage specifically, and if you are also a city slicker in Los Anchorage or, if you tend to pass through here now and again, let me know.
We could do lunch or grab a cup of coffee and compare notes.

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[grand veneur]

I would also do as @Velo Dog says and only load a bullet that I can use for Alaska as well as Africa.

An scope is IMHO very important for an good shot placement especially under bad shooting conditions. The open sights should actually serve only as a temporary solution after a scope failure for example or by tracking wounded dangerous game.

Sure , a rifle caliber 458 is rather a backup rifle for PH as a all-round rifle for clients. Nevertheless, I would not let me be influenced too by the medium-caliber group that puts the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum above everything. Latter is also a good cartridge , not comparable with a cartridge caliber 458 , but maybe more versatile when it comes to longer range shooting on plain game in Africa for example.

 

[WAB]

Good advice here. On QD mounts, I started with the Leupold qrw system but have migrated over to Talleys. They both work great on my Lott and .375.

 

[BeeMaa]

Personally I prefer the lowest power to be 1x for both eyesy open shooting.
Up to 6x or 8x for the upper range.
~3.5" of eye relief.
Leupold makes good glass, but you will notice a huge difference in quality when you step up to Swaro, Zeiss, Kales and S&B.

Depending on the brand of rifle and scope you choose, you may want to look at the Contessa QR mount, they are pretty slick.
Or you could go with Warne, Talley or Alaska Arms QR rings & mounts

 

[Red Leg]

I think the Swarovski Z6i 1x6 is maybe the best DG scope on the market. And I love my large collection of Leica products. There are other brands that will give you great service as well - but in that caliber, 1x6 is hard to beat. Talley mounts are the simplest and best made of the affordable detachables available. I personally think they are meaningfully better than Warne.

And I hate the idea of two different bullet weights. Keep it simple.

 

[Longwalker]

I agree with most of the advice you have received above. Keep it simple. I also offer a word of encouragement - although your rifle is a heavy kicker, don't assume that also translates to it being unusually hard on scopes. The acceleration speed of the recoil is quite moderate in a .458 Lott, compared to something like a .300 magnum in a very light rifle. Your Lott certainly has more total recoil momentum, but the smaller faster magnums and their quick hard jolt rattles more scopes into failure.
Changing cartridges to a heavier bullet load and then removing the scope to approach a wound bear is a fine theory, but try to remember that when you're full of adrenaline and something big, nasty and hurt is making noise in the alders. I suspect you might possibly react like me and my first cape buffalo. I had a perfectly serviceable QD mount, but started walking up on my buffalo as soon as it dropped. With an empty rifle. And scope still attached and turned to 3x. I certainly know better, but blame the adrenaline and excitement of the moment. If not for my PH saying "Reload- NOW" I may have forgotten. I reloaded and turned the scope to 1x, but didn't need another shot. I am glad I had someone to remind me.

 

[mikecatt13]

For what it's worth, I have a 470 double on the way and intend to get 375 barrels for it. I plan on having the included red dot, a 2-10 vx5, and a 1-6 vx6 in QD mounts and zero them based on what I'm hunting that trip and what barrels I take

Ex: leopard and plains game: take the 375 and zero both the 2-10 and 1-6

Buff and plains game: zero 1-6 on the 470, 2-10 on 375

 

[One Day...]

.458 Lott has a FAST recoil...

The data says:

• A 9 lbs scoped .300 Wby mag (which is pretty light for a .300) shooting a 180 gr bullet at 3,240 fps produces 31.6 ft/lbs of free recoil at 15.0 fps.
• A .340 Wby mag, which has a reputation for hard and fast recoil, produces 43.4 ft/lbs of free recoil at 17.6 fps from a 9 lbs. scoped rifle, which is very light for the caliber, when shooting 250 gr bullets at 2,940 fps.
• Comparatively, a 10 lbs .458 Lott shooting 500 gr at 2,300 fps produces 70.4 fr/lbs of free recoil at 21.3 fps. This is both considerably harder AND faster.

There is indeed something to the popular notion of the "slow push" of the heavy big bore doubles, but if I was to take a guess I would speculate that the two key factors are:

1) they typically do not shoot fast loads (2,150 fps);
2) their weight (11 to 12 lbs) give them greater inertia at the beginning of the recoil.
​

Neither of these apply to a .458 Lott shooting fast loads out of a comparatively light rifle.

For example, my 11 lbs 6 oz Krieghoff .470 N.E. shooting 500 gr at 2,150 fps still produces 67 ft/lbs of free recoil at 20 fps, which is not negligible, but it is noticeably more pleasant to shoot than my 8 lbs 13 oz Mauser 66 .458 Lott that produces 79 ft/lbs of free recoil at 23 fps when shooting 500 gr at 2,300 fps. This 8 3/4 lbs Lott is simply too light, and distinctly unpleasant to shoot. It does not push, it hits. Hard and fast. 20 rounds in succession give me a mild headache, the sure sign of a small concussion...

So, in summary, no, a bolt action 485 Lott does not generate a quite moderate recoil acceleration speed. Classic .450/.470/.500 double in the 11 to 12 lbs range may (to a point), but not a .458 Lott in the 10 lbs range (or lighter)...

A classic recommendation GreenOne is to shoot the .458 Lott with iron sights first, before scoping it. By the way you did not say, which rifle did you get?

Straight scope tube ... or not?

The downside to all the recommendations made for straight tube scopes is that they typically have quite narrow objectives (typically 24 mm). That is OK at low or no magnification in full day light, but their light-gathering capability drops considerably at dawn or dusk, especially when magnification is cranked up. In your scenario for a 350 gr lighter load, assumedly used at mid range on moose/plains game, a case can really be made for a light gathering 42 mm objective.

You are not the first one to look down the path of dual loads GreenOne. Some (@Red Leg) do not walk it, others (@Von S.) are deadly on it. I personally believe in several loads for the same rifle provided you keep your head straight and you do not use then simultaneously. My own favorite is 130 gr TTSX and 180 gr TTSX for the .300 Wby. The 130 gr gives me a trajectory flatter than the .257 Wby (can you believe that!?) and the 180 gr hits almost as hard as the .340 Wby. Gotta love it! But I do not carry them simultaneously in the field. Others use 235 gr and 350 gr in the .375 H&H for example. It all works, but to Red Leg's point it is yet one more opportunity for a screw-up under stress...

It may be that your .350 gr load with a 1-6x42 scope is deadly mid-range moose/PG medicine, and that your .500 gr load up close with iron sights or reflex sight (Docter, RMR, Zeiss, etc.) is deadly griz/buff medicine...

Short eye piece and a long eye relief

In any case, look for scopes with a short eye piece and a long eye relief. A truly unique one in this respect is the Leica Visus 1-4x24 or 2.5-10x42. They have a 3" eye piece and a 4" eye relief. Most other scopes either reverse these numbers (4" eye piece and 3" relief) or split them (~3.5" each). An additional inch of eye relief can be humongous on a .458 Lott. Many stitches on many foreheads testify to this

Welcome to the big bore club

 

[Longwalker]

Please forgive me One Day, may I please point out with the utmost respect for your personal experience which is superior to mine, - acceleration cannot be measured in feet per second. Velocity is measured in feet per second. Velocity matters not at all once an object is in motion. It is while overcoming inertia that things tend to tear apart. Please look up the difference. You did not provide any measure of acceleration in your comparison. Acceleration, not velocity matters when discussing forces which may or may not shake a scope apart. The effect on your shoulder is indisputable. Your personal observations are correct, based on your experience. I believe the effect of recoil on a scope is worth more data-based discussion.

 

[Longwalker]

If you think acceleration and velocity are the same thing, consider the force you exert on the back of your seat at low speed but great acceleration on the runway while you are seated in a jet on your way to Africa. And compare that to the force you exert on your seat while travelling at much higher speed but no acceleration over the Atlantic Ocean.