Ruger M77 Mk 2 action reliability vs mauser 98

[Nhoro]

Hi all, Some discussion on the thread about Zimbabwe PH tests has got me thinking and i did some google research but cannot find the answer. Perhaps someone can help. In the article, Don Heath says the Ruger action ejector does not seem to spring back quick enough to eject if the action is quickly cycled. As far as I can find out, the Ruger and mauser (and CZ) ejectors are the same in principle. As the bolt retracts,a spring pushes the ejector into a slot which allows it to project through the bolt face as the bolt is retracted and bump the case out. So surely the Rugers problem is execution and not design ? The ruger ejector was dirty or tolerances are too tight or the spring is too weak?

 

[Shootist43]

Might I add that the ejector could be too short?

 

[Brett Becker]

Never had a Ruger 77 fail to eject yet. I have had two of them for more than five years, a 338 RCM and a 416 Ruger. And yes I have hunted buffalo with the 416 and would do so again. I trust this rifle to function perfectly and it hasn't let me down yet. ( I suppose now that I have put it in writing it will tomorrow , good old Murphies law)

 

[Rob404]

I recently purchased a Ruger in 6MM I haven't put a lot of miles on it yet but so far it has functioned perfectly

 

[BC.Pat]

I have 2 RSM in 375, 1 in 416 Rigby , and 1 in 450 Rigby, never a lick of issues with any of them. I have put about 500 rounds thru the 375s . About 100 the each of the others.
I have complete faith in the rifle (s), as long as I do my part.

Pat

 

[BC.Pat]

I might add that you have to run the 416 & 450 with "determination" right back to the bolt stop and home (the 375s are a little more forgiving). My personal observation is that most people are a bit " delicate" in their bolt manipulation.

Pat

 

[CAustin]

Never had a problem with this action and I have the m77 action in three different calibers from a 7mm08 to a 416 Ruger

 

[8x68]

I have, and have had a couple of Ruger MKII's in various calibres. I have yet to have an issue. I also have had a cross section of various Mauser actions and haven't had an issue.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have several Ruger rifles and I think the M77 MkII is probably the best version. In the first M77 model, it was push feed and a tang safety, as Bill Ruger was fond of saying, "where a safety ought to be." The current version, the Hawkeye, is a good, solid design, but doesn't have the nice blued finish. All have been very reliable and no real issues. I did replace a firing pin spring in one rifle and that's it.

 

[Rule 303]

My first Ruger 77 ws a Mk11 and what a pig of a rifle it was. Nothing but problems with it. Bolt was sloppy as all hell and would bind/jam on both chambering and ejecting. About the only things that worked on it were the safety and the ejector. The Hawkeye I replaced it with is great, never had an issue with it but it does not feel as good as a CZ550 or P14/M17. Don't have a Mauser to compare it to.

 

[mdwest]

I've got a hawkeye and a very clean/smooth M98..

The hawkeye is the best Mauser ever produced in my opinion

 

[CTDolan]

Hi all, Some discussion on the thread about Zimbabwe PH tests has got me thinking and i did some google research but cannot find the answer. Perhaps someone can help. In the article, Don Heath says the Ruger action ejector does not seem to spring back quick enough to eject if the action is quickly cycled. As far as I can find out, the Ruger and mauser (and CZ) ejectors are the same in principle. As the bolt retracts,a spring pushes the ejector into a slot which allows it to project through the bolt face as the bolt is retracted and bump the case out. So surely the Rugers problem is execution and not design ? The ruger ejector was dirty or tolerances are too tight or the spring is too weak?

Ejector issues were spoken of here and there in relation to the RSM, back when it was still in production.

With regard to the ejector the CZ is similar to the Ruger but neither are like a true, split lug M98.

 

[Nhoro]

Ejector issues were spoken of here and there in relation to the RSM, back when it was still in production.

With regard to the ejector the CZ is similar to the Ruger but neither are like a true, split lug M98.

Thanks CTDolan. Idont have access to all three actions. Could you explain a little more the differences ? Most articles that I have seen say they are all pretty much the same design,just the mauser runs through the lug. Is that true ?

 

[CTDolan]

The Mauser ejector does run through the lug.

There's a number of subtle differences between a genuine Mauser 98 and Ruger or CZ, one the least mentioned being the fact that, in the original design, a Mauser 98 will not allow one to close the bolt on a chambered cartridge. There is no cut-out which allows the extractor to snap over the rim of a cartridge in the chamber. The reason is that Mauser wanted absolutely reliable extraction, that the only way the bolt was going to open was if it brings the case along for the ride.

There's a number of other differences (most of them subtle), but for all intents and purposed the Ruger (Mark II and Hawkeye) and CZ are M98 derivatives and in keeping with the essence of the design.

 

[ZG47]

The Mauser blade ejector is situated at 9 o'clock (looking from behind). It does not move unless you press the bolt release to remove the bolt and it kicks the empty case or unfired cartridge reliably out to the right. The Ruger Mk II, Brno ZKK and CZ 550 rifles use a spring loaded extractor mounted at approximately 7 o'clock (inspired by the original and Classic versions of the Winchester Model 70). They are slightly more vulnerable to failure if you store your rifle in dusty conditions and do not clean it, due to their reliance upon a spring to bring that type of ejector up into position as the bolt comes back.

Pick what looks right, balances right, allows your trigger hand to fully contact the pistol grip, comes up to point of aim with your eyes closed for a snapshot AND then look after it! The rest is practise, practise, practise; with live and dummy rounds.

 

[CTDolan]

Actually, the Mauser ejector is spring-loaded, too, and retracts when the bolt is closed. The spring which forces the ejector into the cutout in the left lug is the same that keeps the bolt release snug against the body of the action.

 

[ZG47]

Actually, the Mauser ejector is spring-loaded, too, and retracts when the bolt is closed. The spring which forces the ejector into the cutout in the left lug is the same that keeps the bolt release snug against the body of the action.

@CTDolan My bad. Early morning here, having trouble getting to sleep HOWEVER ... the Mauser ejector is powered by a better type of spring. Vee springs have more snap to them. Yes ... that sounded like a breakfast food commercial but it is true! Also, sideways pivoting ejector movement is easier than upward pivoting ejector movement.

NB True lateral, i.e. Mauser 98 ejection, avoids the issue of brass hitting a scope windage knob but that is more of an issue with target type scopes than hunting scopes.

All of the above, however, is more important in terms of conscript soldiers than diligent shooters.

 

[CTDolan]

Agreed, the Mauser has a better arrangement when it comes to the spring for the ejector blade.

Really, all concessions which exist in Mauser derivatives have to do with cutting cost, the ejector mechanism included (strength is cited as the left lug is not split in actions such as the Ruger, CZ and Winchester, but this is a non-starter as the Mauser 98 has proven suitably strong for any realistic cartridge).

 

[Nhoro]

Thanks CTDolan. You confirmed what I suspected. So all of the actions mentioned are almost the same in theory and Don Heath's observations point to the Ruger maybe having a weaker spring or tight tolerances. I have been scouring the internet and found some suggestions that the ejector needs beveling and or the bolt so that there is no reason for them to bind.Good things to know.

 

[Rafiki]

The Mauser ejector does run through the lug.

There's a number of subtle differences between a genuine Mauser 98 and Ruger or CZ, one the least mentioned being the fact that, in the original design, a Mauser 98 will not allow one to close the bolt on a chambered cartridge. There is no cut-out which allows the extractor to snap over the rim of a cartridge in the chamber. The reason is that Mauser wanted absolutely reliable extraction, that the only way the bolt was going to open was if it brings the case along for the ride.

I purchased a 2006 vintage RSM about 6mos ago, that rifle will not allow the extractor to snap over the rim of a chambered round.