Rifles: single stack magazines or double stack magazines?

[mark-hunter]

So, gents,
I dont remember we discussed benefits and advantages of the two types of rifle magazines.
So, what are the advantages or disadvantages of each type of magazine, single stack and double stack?

Me, personally, I tend to prefer double stack type, for better capacity flush with stock.

 

[KIH]

Double stack, kan be reloaded from top when mounted in weapon.

 

[mark-hunter]

Agreed.
I am waiting to see see some benefits of single stacks. There must be some benefits since so many factories are making them, even on high end rifles.
Some say, central feeding is benefit of single stack. Hype or true? Hmmmmm?

 

[VertigoBE]

So, gents,
I dont remember we discussed benefits and advantages of the two types of rifle magazines.
So, what are the advantages or disadvantages of each type of magazine, single stack and double stack?

Me, personally, I tend to prefer double stack type, for better capacity flush with stock.

I would tend to think that for ultimate reliability, single stack, always presenting the next round in exactly the same position, angle, etc. would have a small edge on double stack. (especially on more non-standard cartridge profiles). But seeing so many well functioning double stacked magazine rifles, seems to negate this.

In Europe I believe the single stack is perhaps a bit easier to produce, reliably, and in some legislations you are not allowed to have more than 3 rounds in a hunting rifle anyway.

But these are my ramblings as a non-expert. I'd love to hear some proven wisdom on this topic.

 

[mark-hunter]

(especially on more non-standard cartridge profiles).

A point to consider, lets say for rimmed cartridges such as 303 british, or 7.62x54r russian most known in bolt action rifles. For 22lr, single stack is usual feature.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Considering many military rifles were double stack, with rapid reloading, either bolt, semi or autoloader, I don't see a disadvantage.

M1 Garand clip was double stack.

 

[mark-hunter]

Thank you guys for the input so far.

What I would like to find out is why so many high end guns with great wood are forcing single stack mags, and since I prefer double stack mags, I am open for education because maybe I am missing something.

 

[Red Leg]

Thank you guys for the input so far.

What I would like to find out is why so many high end guns with great wood are forcing single stack mags, and since I prefer double stack mags, I am open for education because maybe I am missing something.

@ VertigoBE has it correct. Most rifles like that are built in Europe primarily for a European clientele Living in countries with three round restrictions. That is not true of higher end rifles built in the US.

 

[mark-hunter]

I will need to research this a bit. Italy, Slovenia, Checz republic, Austria, UK, for example dont have limit on 3 rounds

I think that in most Eu countries is limit for hunting semi automatic rifle on 2 rounds in mag plus 1 in chamber (semi auto shotguns included), this is regulated in hunting laws, not in gun laws.

At my place, general limit is 10 rounds mag for other non-hunting rifles (bolt action, or bolt action plus semi auto for sport).
For this reason I registered my ar15 as rifle for sport, to have 10 round legal magazine.

EU directive (on firearms) is legal recommendation so each country has option to make laws as per their convenience.
Here is a part from EU firearm directive 2021.

Category A – Prohibited firearms
....
Any of the following centre-fire semi-automatic firearms:
(a) short firearms which allow the firing of more than 21 rounds without reloading, if:
(i) a loading device with a capacity exceeding 20 rounds is part of that firearm; or
(ii) a detachable loading device with a capacity exceeding 20 rounds is inserted into it;
(b) long firearms which allow the firing of more than 11 rounds without reloading, if:
(i) a loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is part of that firearm; or
(ii) a detachable loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is inserted into it.

In some countries they have exemptions or special permits for high capacity mags, like for IPSC sport shooters.
Of course, if a country wants to be more restrictive, they are "welcome" to do so.

So, there could be some countries with magazine limit of 3 rounds for bolt action (I mean non-semi automatic). But I am not sure which ones.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I will need to research this a bit. Italy, Slovenia, Checz republic, Austria, UK, for example dont have limit on 3 rounds

I think that in most Eu countries is limit for hunting semi automatic rifle on 2 rounds in mag plus 1 in chamber (semi auto shotguns included), this is regulated in hunting laws, not in gun laws.

At my place, general limit is 10 rounds mag for other non-hunting rifles (bolt action, or bolt action plus semi auto for sport).
For this reason I registered my ar15 as rifle for sport, to have 10 round legal magazine.

EU directive (on firearms) is legal recommendation so each country has option to make laws as per their convenience.
Here is a part from EU firearm directive 2021.

Category A – Prohibited firearms
....
Any of the following centre-fire semi-automatic firearms:
(a) short firearms which allow the firing of more than 21 rounds without reloading, if:
(i) a loading device with a capacity exceeding 20 rounds is part of that firearm; or
(ii) a detachable loading device with a capacity exceeding 20 rounds is inserted into it;
(b) long firearms which allow the firing of more than 11 rounds without reloading, if:
(i) a loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is part of that firearm; or
(ii) a detachable loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is inserted into it.

In some countries they have exemptions or special permits for high capacity mags, like for IPSC sport shooters.
Of course, if a country wants to be more restrictive, they are "welcome" to do so.

So, there could be some countries with magazine limit of 3 rounds for bolt action (I mean non-semi automatic). But I am not sure which ones.

I guess I sorta get the history behind North American (and presumably Europen) restrictions on hunting shotguns with more than three rounds capacity. It dates back to reactions against market hunting driving some species of waterfowl almost to extinction. Limiting a shotgun to three rounds limited the damage one can do flock shooting. I'm not sure I see any similar purpose for limiting big game hunting rifles to three rounds. Perhaps the concern is individuals who want to turn a hunting rifle into a weapon of mass destruction of humans. But that would not be a "hunting regulation."

 

[mark-hunter]

It is my opinion as well, a part of hunting ethics translated into hunting laws.
Besides, I dont remember I ever needing more then 2 shots for small game, either hitting or missing. If not hit by second shot, it will usually be too late for third shot.

However, legalities aside, the question remains:
Advantages or disadvantages of double stack mags and single stack mags, presumably in bolt action rifles?

 

[mowen]

I think the answer is multifaceted: First, the industry standard AICS style magazine seems far more reliable in bolt action rifles than similar industry standard (i.e. AR10 magazines) function in bolt guns.

Second, many claim that single stack feeding gives the shooter more flexibility to increase COAL and have it feed reliably than it could in a double stack mag. That's a biggie with the PRS crowd.

I know there's a lot of hunters who don't like a big AICS mag hanging out the bottom of their rifle and I totally get that, but there's plenty of flush fit options out there if you are OK with proprietary magazines.

 

[Safari Dave]

I have had neither, in a bolt-action, fail me.

I prefer double stacked, simply because of more rounds.

 

[mark-hunter]

Second, many claim that single stack feeding gives the shooter more flexibility to increase COAL and have it feed reliably than it could in a double stack mag.

This is excellent point!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So, gents,
I dont remember we discussed benefits and advantages of the two types of rifle magazines.
So, what are the advantages or disadvantages of each type of magazine, single stack and double stack?

Me, personally, I tend to prefer double stack type, for better capacity flush with stock.

@mark-hunter
Both have there benefits. Single stack smoother feed, double stack higher capacity.
Savage got it right with double stack but centre feed. Best of bot worlds
Bob

 

[Philip Glass]

So, gents,
I dont remember we discussed benefits and advantages of the two types of rifle magazines.
So, what are the advantages or disadvantages of each type of magazine, single stack and double stack?

Me, personally, I tend to prefer double stack type, for better capacity flush with stock.

For hunting purposes it is best to not have a detachable mag. It seems everyone I know has lost a mag in the field and then they have a single shot. I love the fact that he R8 mag can be locked.
As for my range/ranch guns I am having a hard time thinking of which ones are single stack.

 

[mark-hunter]

For hunting purposes it is best to not have a detachable mag. It seems everyone I know has lost a mag in the field and then they have a single shot. I love the fact that he R8 mag can be locked.
As for my range/ranch guns I am having a hard time thinking of which ones are single stack.

I am in agreement.
I have all types of magazines in various rifles.
I already lost one (full) mag during a hunt, of course detachable. in semi auto.

SOme systems are better then others, for example: Sako 85 has good locked type mag, which does not need to be removed when reloading.

Closed top rifles such as tikka, or steyr cannot have that system, must have detachable mag.

But, more I hunt, more I appreciate fixed non removable mags, with open top loading system, eventually with hinged floor plate, or fixed floor plate.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am in agreement.
I have all types of magazines in various rifles.
I already lost one (full) mag during a hunt, of course detachable. in semi auto.

SOme systems are better then others, for example: Sako 85 has good locked type mag, which does not need to be removed when reloading.

Closed top rifles such as tikka, or steyr cannot have that system, must have detachable mag.

But, more I hunt, more I appreciate fixed non removable mags, with open top loading system, eventually with hinged floor plate, or fixed floor plate.

Not to derail too far but today I learned detachable magazines were made for 98 Mauser actions. I saw one for sale on an online auction site. It appeared to be military design. Presumably single stack as the magazine is inserted inside existing bottom metal with floorplate removed. Would not appear to be sufficient width in the box for stagger stacked cartridges. Anyone have experience with those? Interesting concept.

 

[mark-hunter]

Not to derail too far but today I learned detachable magazines were made for 98 Mauser actions.

I am not surprised. There are some funny pictures from ww1, with mausers with added capacity mags in trenches.

I know somebody in Balkans, makes backmarket removable magazines to fit in zastava m70 (mauser clone). However, if I remember correctly in this case this reduced magazine capacity from 5 to 4.
I also remember some versions of famous CZ550 were originally produced with removable mag (4 rounds) or fixed mag (5rounds).

As for preferability. I know some people change single stack magazine in tikka t3, with added adapter and trigger guard with AICS (or similar to AICS?) double stack metal magazine, and some steyr SSG aficionados prefer to change SSG 69 magazine (rotary type) with similar magazine as well.

However, I never heard somebody replacing double stack magazine for single stack, ehmmm

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am not surprised. There are some funny pictures from ww1, with mausers with added capacity mags in trenches.

I know somebody in Balkans, makes backmarket removable magazines to fit in zastava m70 (mauser clone). However, if I remember correctly in this case this reduced magazine capacity from 5 to 4.
I also remember some versions of famous CZ550 were originally produced with removable mag (4 rounds) or fixed mag (5rounds).

As for preferability. I know some people change single stack magazine in tikka t3, with added adapter and trigger guard with AICS (or similar to AICS?) double stack metal magazine, and some steyr SSG aficionados prefer to change SSG 69 magazine (rotary type) with similar magazine as well.

However, I never heard somebody replacing double stack magazine for single stack, ehmmm

I'm just assuming from the photo this 98 Mauser removable magazine is single feed. It looks much narrower. Seems like it should be doable to make a double stack fixed mag rifle with detachable floorplate accept single stack detachable mags without changing the bottom metal. Would be less capacity but possibly faster reloading. Stripper clips have their disadvantages (frailty).