Rifle/ammo failure on Elephant

[Philip Glass]

Hey bad gun handling even if you practice. Can go bad because you practice bad.
Back when revolvers were stander issue during a fight guys were sticking empty speed loaders in there pocket
And picking up mags after they changed over.

Why? Because they did what they did on training.
I have seen it on ccw ranges have have told people to drop them and pic them up after there shooting was done.

I have heard more than once you know what this mag cost?

I think most people just piddle around at the range instead of putting themselves in a real scenario. This is why I tell people who are going on a DG hunt to go to the range and try to break your gun. Rapid fire, learn to reload quickly and shoot again. See what your gun does when it is really hot, etc.
Sitting at the bench and methodically loading one cartridge by hand ever so gently just won't cut it!

 

[Monski]

I think most people just piddle around at the range instead of putting themselves in a real scenario. This is why I tell people who are going on a DG hunt to go to the range and try to break your gun. Rapid fire, learn to reload quickly and shoot again. See what your gun does when it is really hot, etc.
Sitting at the bench and methodically loading one cartridge by hand ever so gently just won't cut it!

Good advise and what I do/have done but one time maybe not enough. I had a rifle that worked perfectly before a hunt. While walking around the bush for multiple days with the magazine full of rounds during the hunt, the magazine spring was then just weak enough to cause the rifle to malfunction on follow up shots. Murphy's law was in effect. I never thought to fill the magazine with dummy rounds for a period of time as part of testing the rifle, which I do now to make sure there are no issues.

 

[deewayne2003]

Anyone firing a double with a splinter forend quickly learns the necessity of a glove on the left hand. Held correctly, the left side hand actually is grasping the barrels. They heat up very quickly.

Ok, I should have said gloves on both hands.

I understand the Michael Jackson look while shooting volume on a thin forend and have seen it in sporting clays numerous times.

Now he’s whereing gloves on both hands and shooting a Heym that has more than enough forend to be comfortable.

Between the hat, gloves, ammo belt with extra pouches…. Seems more like diving into the look of an elephant hunter than executing the actions.

 

[Red Leg]

Ok, I should have said gloves on both hands.

I understand the Michael Jackson look while shooting volume on a thin forend and have seen it in sporting clays numerous times.

Now he’s whereing gloves on both hands and shooting a Heym that has more than enough forend to be comfortable.

Between the hat, gloves, ammo belt with extra pouches…. Seems more like diving into the look of an elephant hunter than executing the actions.

I can't argue with that. A gloved right hand really complicates a reload.

 

[Brian]

Watching this video moves me to offer my equipment preferences for hunting dangerous game.
I intend my post to be helpful to first time DG Hunters and not to be critical of those who have sorted out their own way of doing things.

Cape buffalo are the only dangerous game that I have ever hunted in Africa. I have killed 19 cape buffalo and learned some things the hard way.

I need to say that I strongly recommend never using gloves, a sling or binoculars. They are just liabilities when hunting dangerous game. They don't help you in anyway with knocking down your DG and they may cause you trouble in a demanding situation.

Gloves will slow you down. Binoculars are completely redundant and can get in the way, your PH has binoculars. A sling can get tangled up in branches or the shooting sticks. If your rifle is too heavy for you sometimes get the tracker to carry it fo a while. ( I am 80 years old and my 12 pound rifle is alway too heavy for me! )

I like to carry the best bullets available including some CEB solids, in the most handy place possible.
I keep several on a tight elastic retainer on the buttstock so I can reload very quickly. I carry more on my belt on my front right side.

I never use Hornady bullets or any other sub standard bullet for dangerous game.
I have found that for me, there are great benefits to using a .500 or bigger caliber and no reason to use a small caliber like a .375. ( For me, fear of recoil is not a good reason.)

Many DG hunters don't do things the way that I do them and many of them have more experience and are better at it than I am. I get it. I have just picked this time to share my way of doing things like many other hunters have done for me. Some beginner DG Hunters may appreciate it. You seasoned DG hunters, please don't take any of this personally. This post is not about you.

 

[skydiver386]

The gloves aren't something I'd wear, but looking at the open sores on the clients arm, I think I know the deal.

About half the men I know over 70 years old develop open sores on their arms and hands. Sometimes it's skin cancer, sometimes cuts and scrapes that just don't heal. When you get old it's better to protect exposed skin rather than trying to get cuts to heal.

 

[Brian]

My cuts heal well. It's partly nutrition.
Some times I wear Camo for sneaking up on Buffalo. That is when I use camo gloves. They are the light mesh type and I cut off the fingers and thumbs about half way up, then I am good to go for gun handling and loading.

 

[375Fox]

The gloves aren't something I'd wear, but looking at the open sores on the clients arm, I think I know the deal.

About half the men I know over 70 years old develop open sores on their arms and hands. Sometimes it's skin cancer, sometimes cuts and scrapes that just don't heal. When you get old it's better to protect exposed skin rather than trying to get cuts to heal.

Also common for African carry to limit sweat on barrel leading to rust.

 

[Brian]

375Fox,

Yes I agree, I have seen that, mostly it's a North American hunter who wears shooting glove while they are shooting a dangerous game animal. Have you ever seen a seasoned hunter or PH wearing gloves while he is shooting a dangerous animal? I don't think that I have. Maybe.

I have worn leather gloves in rough country while stalking a buffalo but I whip them off when I get close to shooting. I don't want to risk a fumble in my reload for the sake of delicate little hands.

As far as the rust issue goes, some hunters just wipe their rifle off with a non smelling gun oil or solvent at the end of each day.

The kind of rifle that I use for buffalo are not worth being concerned about rust on the barrel. I am not bragging that I use low cost utility rifles for hunting buffalo. If I could ever afford a nice double I would probably feel differently about all this.

This might give you a chuckle, I have no class at all. I take a rattle can of camo paint that will match the area and season that I will be be hunting in and spray my barrel with a dull colour or I wrap it with camo cloth. It definitely makes the PH chuckle ! Brian

 

[375Fox]

375Fox,

Yes I agree, I have seen that, mostly it's a North American hunter who wears shooting glove while they are shooting a dangerous game animal. Have you ever seen a seasoned hunter or PH wearing gloves while he is shooting a dangerous animal? I don't think that I have. Maybe.

I have worn leather gloves in rough country while stalking a buffalo but I whip them off when I get close to shooting. I don't want to risk a fumble in my reload for the sake of delicate little hands.

As far as the rust issue goes, some hunters just wipe their rifle off with a non smelling gun oil or solvent at the end of each day.

The kind of rifle that I use for buffalo are not worth being concerned about rust on the barrel. I am not bragging that I use low cost utility rifles for hunting buffalo. If I could ever afford a nice double I would probably feel differently about all this.

This might give you a chuckle, I have no class at all. I take a rattle can of camo paint that will match the area and season that I will be be hunting in and spray my barrel with a dull colour or I wrap it with camo cloth. It definitely makes the PH chuckle ! Brian

One PH I hunted with had a very old high end double that he wore gloves with (I want to say Rigby but I can’t recall). He’s the one who told me that reason. J Alain Smith wears gloves in many of his videos. I generally agree with your opinion I think. My rifles are working tools. I’m not afraid to scratch them. Reliable is only thing I need. I don’t take binoculars or a sling anymore. They are just something to hang up. However, there are hunters that take very valuable rifles on hunts and I can’t fault them for taking the best care of them if they insist on hunting with them. I have a 22 I regularly African carry at home. I wipe down with oil each night but the salt from sweat still leads to rust. Vasoline and steel wool is the only thing that slows the rust.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I believe that the first couple of shoulder shots would have eventually proven fatal for the bull (as mentioned in the video by Mr. Taylor). Due to the pressing need to secure the elephant before sundown (in order to avoid a long tracking job), the client was instructed to keep pouring more shots into the elephant until the bull went down on the spot.

What’s far more concerning, is the fact that:
1) The client had TWO misfires. He was clearly using Hornady DGS (Dangerous Game Solids) factory loads in his Heym Model 89B (in either a .470 Nitro Express or .500 Nitro Express chambering). I’m beginning to lose more & more faith in Hornady day by day.
2) At the 39 minute mark, the client approached the wounded bull elephant with only one barrel of his rifle loaded (despite having ample time to load the second barrel).

Elephants are notoriously difficult to down quickly with the shoulder shot (especially with calibers smaller than .500 bore). They usually end up going 50 yards on a heart shot, 100 yards on a double lung shot and much further if only one lung is ruptured.

I emptied an entire magazine (6 rounds) of a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum BRNO ZKK602 (loaded with RWS 300Gr nickel jacketed round nosed FMJ solids) into the heart-lung region of my first elephant in Botswana. Most of those bullets had managed to hit vital regions, but it still managed to cross a stream & give us one well of a tracking job for more than 40 minutes.
View attachment 692238

I had 2 buff charges early on in my Safari career that I completely attribute to poor hornady ammunition. Literally had my life on the line with shit non bonded bullets. Never again for me.

HH

 

[DLSJR]

Disgusting shit show. I couldn’t watch it much beyond his first fuck up.

Videos like this should never see the light of day as far as I’m concerned. Just another old guy who isn’t up to the demands of dangerous game hunting. And he documented it for the world to see. SMH.

 

[Sideshow]

I just watched this. Yes its hard to watch. But its a good training tool in what can go wrong.
So I'll take from it that.
If you don’t want to end up like this chap then practice a lot. Get that muscle memory correct. As well as being mentally prepared for the occasion. That's a tuff one to get right. But get to the zoo and get up close to them would be a good way to go about it. Im sure someone here would know how to simulate the stress that comes with the confrontation of a hunt like this? If so maybe you can enlighten us.
It would be hard to get the smell, heat etc but you could get the sound. Here's the one at Holland & Holland

 

[Altitude sickness]

IMHO the best way to prepare to kill animals is to kill animals. With your chosen weapon. It really does not matter what the animal is.

A example
For me when I am out with my binoculars trying to stalk up on a sitting rabbit and shoot him where he sits. With a bow or rifle. (I won’t shoot them sitting with a scattergun) and I am completely focused on finding, stalking and getting a shot. I am as excited as with any other animal. The target animal doesn’t matter if the hunt is done correctly.
Now kicking a brush pile and blasting him with a shotgun is still fun. But it’s a different hunt.

I have had friends that were such trophy hunters. Passing inferior sized animals for years. Only to screw the pooch when crunch time finally came for them.

You need to experience a lot of (crunch times) with your weapon to be completely ready. The only way to come close with a paper target is adding stress by having people watch you shoot. It’s not the same but more practical for most hunters.

Shooting in competition or with someone that shoots better than yourself is a good added stress. A key learned skill is to block out all external distractions and focus on the fundamentals.

Rabbits with .458 WM one frontal brain

 

[bimbo]

Ciao ragazzi!

Non so se questo video è già qui, ma vorrei sapere perché si verificano così tanti spari (è normale?) e perché il fucile/le munizioni si rompono?

Pew-Pew inizia al minuto 9

Hi guys!

Not sure if this video is already here, but I would like to know why so many shoots? (its normal?) and why the rifle /ammo failure?

pew-pew starts at 36 min mark

 

[bimbo]

Terrible hunting video saw just yesterday me too.A lot of people believe still now at energy of rifle!The most important factor is the accuracy of the shot and bullet quality especially on big dangerous game.Over 30 thousand elephant dropped down in '80 years in Zim on culling operation,with 308 30/06 and 7.92x54r.Shot straight is allthing.Premium bullet and right speed as well next.All the greatest hunters in the history of elephant ivory hunting,have done same.Light or medium bore x killing and heavy rifle,on gun bearer,x defence.Today the law and the market force hunter to get a great rifle and...mmm dream with it and its miracolous powerful.No accuracy no trophy.

 

[bimbo]

36:25

The shooting opportunity, but we don't know what the hunter saw because we have the camera's angle. I see a lot of branches and there may have been a problem. It certainly did not go ideally, but despite everything, I would not judge the hunter and his PH from the armchairs at home. The hunter was very hesitant in many regards and the ammunition issue is a separate event, but no one anticipates that he will need 14 cartridges, or I don't know how many, for shooting an elephant.

 

[bimbo]

In Zim PH says about Tembo...1 on its head or seven ones in its chest...but 14 ones are sure too much!If rifle is not perfect,due for lack handling and so lack of accuracy, for hunter can become the worst rifle in the world especially when he is hunting dangerous game

 

[Tanks]

Shooting in competition or with someone that shoots better than yourself is a good added stress. A key learned skill is to block out all external distractions and focus on the fundamentals.

That's why I compete.

 

[crackerman]

IMHO the best way to prepare to kill animals is to kill animals. With your chosen weapon. It really does not matter what the animal is.

A example
For me when I am out with my binoculars trying to stalk up on a sitting rabbit and shoot him where he sits. With a bow or rifle. (I won’t shoot them sitting with a scattergun) and I am completely focused on finding, stalking and getting a shot. I am as excited as with any other animal. The target animal doesn’t matter if the hunt is done correctly.
Now kicking a brush pile and blasting him with a shotgun is still fun. But it’s a different hunt.

I have had friends that were such trophy hunters. Passing inferior sized animals for years. Only to screw the pooch when crunch time finally came for them.

You need to experience a lot of (crunch times) with your weapon to be completely ready. The only way to come close with a paper target is adding stress by having people watch you shoot. It’s not the same but more practical for most hunters.

Shooting in competition or with someone that shoots better than yourself is a good added stress. A key learned skill is to block out all external distractions and focus on the fundamentals.

Rabbits with .458 WM one frontal brain

Like everyone else has said this is just painful to watch.

2020 hindsight that it may be, this seems to be a pure case of the hunter having an idealized vision in his head of how great he’s gonna be at crunch time, but having spent exactly 0 time preparing.

I’ve shot my whopping one buffalo, but went into it with the mindset of this is a gun fight. I’m bringing a rifle and the buffalo is bringing horns and we are equally matched or it’s tilted more in the buffs favor. I’ve shot plenty of pistol competitions, and I’ve taken a number of defensive shooting classes and brought that focus and attitude towards the hunt.

In some of my defensive shooting scenario classes, I’ve seen this exact mindset where somebody is going to run the scenario as the greatest person ever, but their magazines fall to the ground, and they immediately panic and don’t know how to process anything else. Ultimately you have to survive the evolution however possible and if you can’t do that in a training scenario, you have no business doing it in a real hunting scenario.

This has been said the number of videos I watch where especially people with doubles look to pick up their brass and pull their head off the stock is insane. It may have been a case of ammo, but there’s no possible way that Hunter spent an appropriate amount of time practicing with his rifle.

Similar to our long range, shooting thread, the number of people who watch a video on the Internet and think they can do something when they only shoot a Whitetail two times a year gets people hurt and animals lost.

As my kid would say, I do try to bring receipts of what I preach other people should do I do myself.