Resizing Brass Question

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Gents,

I ran into something this weekend that I did not anticipate. I have two rifles in .300H&H, one of which I've not shot yet. I started to work up some loads for the yet to be shot rifle using previously shot brass first.

After sizing the first piece, I checked to see if it would feed properly to ensure the shoulder was bumped enough. The bold wouldn't close and so I bumped the die down further and resized. Once again the bolt wouldn't close. So yeah after a few times of this and certain this was getting nowhere, I put a new unfired piece in the rifle and it of course it fed fine and the bolt closed.

Anybody ever have this happen?

I can only think of a couple reasons why this would happen. The sizing die is perhaps a bit on the loose side of tolerance while my chamber is on the tight side. Or the die is just fine, but the brass is springing back a bit which makes it tight in the "newer" rifle.

 

[sandman0921]

Phil,

A couple of questions:

1) How many times has your brass been fired?

2) Have you measured (micrometer) the area just above the belt to see if it falls within spec? Does it measure 0.512 in. (The standard diameter above the belt for belted magnums)?

The reason I ask, as you probably well know, is that with belted magnums, they get an expansion ring/bulge just above the belt that traditional sizing dies can't FL resize (because of the belt). If the ring gets too large with repeated firings (can happen in little as 2-3 firings from full house, magnum loads), the round eventually won't chamber. Couple that with a generous chamber (brass fired through your other rifle), potentially tight chamber on the new rifle, and full house loads and I can see that as an explanation. Just a thought?

If you mike your brass above the belt, and see the bulge, there is a tool to fix that so you don't have to trash the brass.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil,

A couple of questions:

1) How many times has your brass been fired?

2) Have you measured (micrometer) the area just above the belt to see if it falls within spec? Does it measure 0.512 in. (The standard diameter above the belt for belted magnums)?

The reason I ask, as you probably well know, is that with belted magnums, they get an expansion ring/bulge just above the belt that traditional sizing dies can't FL resize (because of the belt). If the ring gets too large with repeated firings (can happen in little as 2-3 firings from full house, magnum loads), the round eventually won't chamber. Couple that with a generous chamber (brass fired through your other rifle), potentially tight chamber on the new rifle, and full house loads and I can see that as an explanation. Just a thought?

If you mike your brass above the belt, and see the bulge, there is a tool to fix that so you don't have to trash the brass.

1) Just a handful of times, I don't keep exact count (yeah I know I should just don't have the patience), but based of what else you said, could be the explanation.

2) Don't know, but I will measure tomorrow and find out.

I do know about the bulge, but didn't notice it, then again the only way to know for sure is to measure. Good thoughts, thanks for the input.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I have encountered being unable to chamber the same caliber shot brass into different rifles, not after full resizing.

This thread has me paying attention. I see some potential for avoiding some issues in the future.


So, what is this tool to fix this little bulge issue?

 

[sandman0921]

I have encountered being unable to chamber the same caliber shot brass into different rifles, not after full resizing.

This thread has me paying attention. I see some potential for avoiding some issues in the future.


So, what is this tool to fix this little bulge issue?

http://www.larrywillis.com


It's called the "Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die". It's pricey, but if you shoot a lot of belted magnums, it can pay for itself after a few reloads of the different calibers. When I purchased mine a few years ago, I was skeptical to say the least, but I thought what the heck. I've definitely gotten a lot more use out of my belted magnums (257 Weatherby, 7mm Rem Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H Mag) using it. Pretty neat little device actually........

 

[lcq]

Gents,

I ran into something this weekend that I did not anticipate. I have two rifles in .300H&H, one of which I've not shot yet. I started to work up some loads for the yet to be shot rifle using previously shot brass first.

After sizing the first piece, I checked to see if it would feed properly to ensure the shoulder was bumped enough. The bold wouldn't close and so I bumped the die down further and resized. Once again the bolt wouldn't close. So yeah after a few times of this and certain this was getting nowhere, I put a new unfired piece in the rifle and it of course it fed fine and the bolt closed.

Anybody ever have this happen?

I can only think of a couple reasons why this would happen. The sizing die is perhaps a bit on the loose side of tolerance while my chamber is on the tight side. Or the die is just fine, but the brass is springing back a bit which makes it tight in the "newer" rifle.

have you measured the length of the case?
Trim Length: 2.840"

 

[BRICKBURN]

http://www.larrywillis.com
......................

Thanks for that.
I may just invest if I see an issue arising.

 

[sandman0921]

have you measured the length of the case?
Trim Length: 2.840"

That's a good point about the case length. They will grow in length after only a few shots through them......I thought about that as well after the previous post I made.......

Brickburn you're welcome. This little tool has come in handy a few times. I'm getting several more reloads out of my belted magnum cases than I was before. Of course, it doesn't relieve you from having to watch for other signs of cases that are on their "last legs" (enlarged primer pockets, neck cracks, etc.), so to speak....in fact I'd say it makes me more cognizant of the need for those inspections since I'm pushing them a little more than I used to....but it does help extend the life of those cases when before, you had no choice but to throw them out. It does help tremendously if you have several belted magnums in your stable that you're reloading for, and having to purchase new cases for, after only 2-3 reloads. If you're only reloading for one belted magnum cartridge it may not be as cost effective, but even then, it will pay for itself if you can get 3-4 more reloads out of the cases than before......

Phil, hopefully the answer will be a simple one. If it's a factory rifle, the chamber dimensions should correlate with SAAMI specs, and be fairly generous in size. If it's a custom rifle, I suppose the chamber could be a "tight" one. I know some of the BR guys, that are obsessed with "gnats hair" accuracy, will actually have the chambers of their fancy, smancy BR rifles reamed with extremely tight tolerances, and also have custom dies reamed with the same reamer so that the brass fit is very snug, as they neck size only. Hopefully that won't be the case in your 300 H&H Magnum and again, it will be something simple. You don't really hear of BR guys using the "old" 30 Super anymore. I've always wanted a rifle in that cartridge....and almost had a custom mountain rifle chambered in it, but went with the 280 AI instead. One day though, when the funds permit, I would love to have one....

Good luck!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

have you measured the length of the case?
Trim Length: 2.840"

Yes I did, don't remember what I measured, but under 2.84".

 

[lcq]

Yes I did, don't remember what I measured, but under 2.84".

unfortunately to accurately measure shoulder bump you need a special tool. The easy way out is buy another bag of brass. Or try the belted collet die

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

unfortunately to accurately measure shoulder bump you need a special tool. The easy way out is buy another bag of brass. Or try the belted collet die

Got the tool from the same guy that makes the belted collet die. Will be digging into this this evening and hopefully have some more information before dieing from heat stroke!

 

[lcq]

Got the tool from the same guy that makes the belted collet die. Will be digging into this this evening and hopefully have some more information before dieing from heat stroke!

At least your electricity prices are way less than half of what we spend in the Socialist Workers Paradise of Ontario. Crank up the air and tell Al Gore to blow a dead puppy

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

At least your electricity prices are way less than half of what we spend in the Socialist Workers Paradise of Ontario. Crank up the air and tell Al Gore to blow a dead puppy

No A/C in the garage.

 

[sandman0921]

Got the tool from the same guy that makes the belted collet die. Will be digging into this this evening and hopefully have some more information before dieing from heat stroke!

Are you talking about the digital headspace gauge? Got that one as well. It does take some getting used to to get a consistent measurement. It is nice in cartridges with unconventional shoulders. I usually use the Sinclair International Bump gauges (similar to the bullet comparators but index off the datum/shoulder of the cartridge case), but they don't make them for the Weatherby Magnum and H&H cartridges, so I bought this on a whim.....which is admittedly what I do a lot........ I'm a sucker for gadgets. But this works pretty well. Piece of advice on the headspace gauge....make sure you take the battery out of the digital gauge after you're done with your measurements because otherwise it will die after a short time, and then when you need it, you won't have it. I may use mine once every year or so when I'm working up a new load.

I still think the bump gauges from Sinclair are the way to go if you can use them. The have them for cartridges with standard shoulders (308 family, 30-06 family, AI family, WSM, belted mag, etc). Anyway, I swear I've accumulated more tools and gadgets for reloading over the years that I could open up an ammunition shop, but I usually end up pulling most of them out a few times every so often, blow off the dust, and use them for something.....at least that's how I make myself feel better for buying something I saw that looked cool...........

Larry's Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die is definitely the real deal. Like I said earlier, I was skeptical and was wondering if it was a solution in need of a problem type of thing but it does do what it says it does. I think it's the best piece of kit he sells for sure...

Have fun, and don't shrivel up like a raisin in the heat. We've had a very hot and humid summer here in TN as well. I reload in the garage as well so I can empathize with the sweat sessions during reloading.......

 

[Steve Steyr]

Just ran into this with a 1903 Springfield I just bought. FL resized twice fired Federal 30/06 brass and it just doesn't fit in the 1903. Went to some W-W oft fired brass from the late 1970's, FL resized, and all is well.
No idea of what the difference is as I haven't taken the time to compare the measurements of the two lots of brass. I do know it wasn't a length problem as I trimmed both lots to 2.480" on a nominal 2.494".

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

So I grabbed a piece of previously fired brass which had been FL resized some time ago. I put it in the new rifle and again, the bolt would not close.

I measured twice just in front of the belt and got 0.510". I measured the length and got 2.336". I didn't do any base to shoulder measurements as I don't think that's the problem and it was too damn hot in the garage to break out that tool.

I haven't got a clue. I didn't bother to resize this piece. I just hope I can resize the new brass that I fire in this rifle so I can use it again.

 

[gillettehunter]

Larry's tool works well. Adds an extra step but males brass useable that otherwise is not useable. Good luck. Bruce

 

[lcq]

No A/C in the garage.

Tell your wife the basement presents a lower risk of explosion

 

[lcq]

So I grabbed a piece of previously fired brass which had been FL resized some time ago. I put it in the new rifle and again, the bolt would not close.

I measured twice just in front of the belt and got 0.510". I measured the length and got 2.336". I didn't do any base to shoulder measurements as I don't think that's the problem and it was too damn hot in the garage to break out that tool.

I haven't got a clue. I didn't bother to resize this piece. I just hope I can resize the new brass that I fire in this rifle so I can use it again.

Phil, I take it factory rounds chamber without a problem?
Take a case from a recently fired factory round and see if it chambers, it should without any resizing. You may have a tight chamber or a headspace issue if it doesn't

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil, I take it factory rounds chamber without a problem?
Take a case from a recently fired factory round and see if it chambers, it should without any resizing. You may have a tight chamber or a headspace issue if it doesn't

Only factory rounds I have are some old 7mm Rem Mags. Loaded brand new brass feeds and bolt closes with no problem.