Politics

[BSO Dave]

The problem is defining a "true conservative." By that litmus test, particularly with respect to debt and deficit spending, few traditional republicans would consider Trump one. Therefore, does that make him a RINO or does that sobriquet only apply to those who do not adhere precisely to Trump's populist agenda? Currently, it is clearly the latter.

Trump is an enigma politically... Like Reagan, he started out as a democrat and evolved politically as the climate changed in this country... He is no RINO simply because he was never a true lifelong republican, nor did he ever claim to be a devout conservative.... Trump has demonstrated that he is willing to spend money to make money, or spend where it is critically necessary... One example would be his spending to replenish our military when he took office which is a national security concern that even you should have no trouble acknowledging...

I define a RINO as a so-called lifelong republican born of the old D.C. political establishment that has no commitment to the most fundamental conservative principles. They serve themselves first and are more than happy to compromise and capitulate those principles when it serves them politically or financially. The republican party has become infested with them in the last 20 or so years, and they are the main reason I left the party to become an independent. These individuals do not reflect my values or serve my country...

You and I often butt heads over Freedom Caucus members who you often claim to be nothing more than self-aggrandizing distracters and agitators to the political process, whereas I view most of them as the small handful of brave individuals who have demonstrated that they will not compromise or capitulate with the democrats or RINOs... They actually went to D.C. and are executing the will of their constituency that sent them with the mandate to oppose swamp business as usual... Imagine that! A politician that actually goes to D.C. and votes the will of his electorate...! Madness!

With respect to Liz Cheney, I think she suffers from one of Trump's issues in that she allows her personal animus to overtake what is best for the party. She paid for that at the polls. I personally believe that Mitt Romney is an honorable person. His voting to convict Trump in both impeachment hearings took political courage whether one agrees with him or not. I understood the first vote, even if I did not agree, I totally disagreed with his second vote. His views with respect to foreign policy closely mirror my own.

Cheney is definitely guilty of allowing her emotions to rule her actions., just as McCain was... However, you did not answer if you think she is a principled person?

I completely disagree about Romney... I believe his actions on several issues have shown him to be a less than honorable man... Courage requires the assumption of personal risk... What did Romney actually risk with his actions?

With respect to my age, I think all of us are the sum total of our education and experience. My departed mother would have added breeding to that list, but I haven't yet decided how relevant that really is. My experience and education put me at odds with quite a bit of the nonsense I read here calling for revolution or civil war. The republic has survived any number of crises and it will survive Harris and Biden. Cultural issues swing like a pendulum and this one is already swinging away at an accelerating pace from Floyd and Covid world.

My experience and education have me disagreeing with you on this as well... We obviously grew up and reside in completely different Americas... It's not surviving Brandon or Harris that concerns me... It's surviving the socialist-progressive policies that they support... Obviously, you and I view this threat of the current and growing surge to the left much differently...

Cultural issues may indeed swing back and forth, but not this one.... Step away from this sheltered forum for a minute and take a quick look at the content and viewership of FB, TikTok, and then tell me what you see... Liberal progressives control 80%+ percent of the media in this country and therefore 80%+ of the propaganda. They have normalized things that would never have been acceptable by the most liberal democrat 30 years ago... They are the culture in this country now...

However, I absolutely will attempt to explain differences I may have with another poster's political beliefs - particularly when they reflect assertions which my experience says is baseless nonsense.

If that bothers anyone, then I would urge them to block my content.

Interestingly, this is my exact philosophy as well... Different experiences, different perspectives I suppose...

 

[John Wasmuth]

Trump is an enigma politically... Like Reagan, he started out as a democrat and evolved politically as the climate changed in this country... He is no RINO simply because he was never a true lifelong republican, nor did he ever claim to be a devout conservative.... Trump has demonstrated that he is willing to spend money to make money, or spend where it is critically necessary... One example would be his spending to replenish our military when he took office which is a national security concern that even you should have no trouble acknowledging...

I define a RINO as a so-called lifelong republican born of the old D.C. political establishment that has no commitment to the most fundamental conservative principles. They serve themselves first and are more than happy to compromise and capitulate those principles when it serves them politically or financially. The republican party has become infested with them in the last 20 or so years, and they are the main reason I left the party to become an independent. These individuals do not reflect my values or serve my country...

You and I often butt heads over Freedom Caucus members who you often claim to be nothing more than self-aggrandizing distracters and agitators to the political process, whereas I view most of them as the small handful of brave individuals who have demonstrated that they will not compromise or capitulate with the democrats or RINOs... They actually went to D.C. and are executing the will of their constituency that sent them with the mandate to oppose swamp business as usual... Imagine that! A politician that actually goes to D.C. and votes the will of his electorate...! Madness!



Cheney is definitely guilty of allowing her emotions to rule her actions., just as McCain was... However, you did not answer if you think she is a principled person?

I completely disagree about Romney... I believe his actions on several issues have shown him to be a less than honorable man... Courage requires the assumption of personal risk... What did Romney actually risk with his actions?



My experience and education have me disagreeing with you on this as well... We obviously grew up and reside in completely different Americas... It's not surviving Brandon or Harris that concerns me... It's surviving the socialist-progressive policies that they support... Obviously, you and I view this threat of the current and growing surge to the left much differently...

Cultural issues may indeed swing back and forth, but not this one.... Step away from this sheltered forum for a minute and take a quick look at the content and viewership of FB, TikTok, and then tell me what you see... Liberal progressives control 80%+ percent of the media in this country and therefore 80%+ of the propaganda. They have normalized things that would never have been acceptable by the most liberal democrat 30 years ago... They are the culture in this country now...



Interestingly, this is my exact philosophy as well... Different experiences, different perspectives I suppose...

On other platforms, like Facebook, it’s closer to 85/90% propaganda from the leftists. And if you voice opposition you’ll get slammed in the Facebook gulag……

 

[Tanks]

I have no family or loved ones and don’t want any.

Sad. You should get a dog. Nothing like unconditional love of a pet to make one feel better.

 

[Red Leg]

Trump is an enigma politically... Like Reagan, he started out as a democrat and evolved politically as the climate changed in this country... He is no RINO simply because he was never a true lifelong republican, nor did he ever claim to be a devout conservative.... Trump has demonstrated that he is willing to spend money to make money, or spend where it is critically necessary... One example would be his spending to replenish our military when he took office which is a national security concern that even you should have no trouble acknowledging...

I define a RINO as a so-called lifelong republican born of the old D.C. political establishment that has no commitment to the most fundamental conservative principles. They serve themselves first and are more than happy to compromise and capitulate those principles when it serves them politically or financially. The republican party has become infested with them in the last 20 or so years, and they are the main reason I left the party to become an independent. These individuals do not reflect my values or serve my country...

You and I often butt heads over Freedom Caucus members who you often claim to be nothing more than self-aggrandizing distracters and agitators to the political process, whereas I view most of them as the small handful of brave individuals who have demonstrated that they will not compromise or capitulate with the democrats or RINOs... They actually went to D.C. and are executing the will of their constituency that sent them with the mandate to oppose swamp business as usual... Imagine that! A politician that actually goes to D.C. and votes the will of his electorate...! Madness!



Cheney is definitely guilty of allowing her emotions to rule her actions., just as McCain was... However, you did not answer if you think she is a principled person?

I completely disagree about Romney... I believe his actions on several issues have shown him to be a less than honorable man... Courage requires the assumption of personal risk... What did Romney actually risk with his actions?



My experience and education have me disagreeing with you on this as well... We obviously grew up and reside in completely different Americas... It's not surviving Brandon or Harris that concerns me... It's surviving the socialist-progressive policies that they support... Obviously, you and I view this threat of the current and growing surge to the left much differently...

Cultural issues may indeed swing back and forth, but not this one.... Step away from this sheltered forum for a minute and take a quick look at the content and viewership of FB, TikTok, and then tell me what you see... Liberal progressives control 80%+ percent of the media in this country and therefore 80%+ of the propaganda. They have normalized things that would never have been acceptable by the most liberal democrat 30 years ago... They are the culture in this country now...



Interestingly, this is my exact philosophy as well... Different experiences, different perspectives I suppose...

My point merely being that Trump does not fit the traditional description of a republican conservative. Moreover, I find very little about him that is reminiscent of Ronald Reagan. I will grant you that his cultural values are generally conservative as long as they don't apply to him personally, but other than his tax policy, there is little about his protectionist economic instincts that fit the traditional free trade position of the conservative movement in this country. I do not care to debate protectionism, but simply point out that Trump is as easily labeled a republican in name only as the far right labels Lindsey Graham the same.

I believe that Cheney was incensed over Trump's actions following the election and on January 6th. I personally found his rhetoric calling far and encouraging those demonstrations inexcusable. It was indeed more than just a hissy fit but can only be explained as an effort to overthrow the results of the election. Participating in the heavily democrat review of January 6 in the face of the severe criticism of her constituents and much of her party, destroyed Cheney's political career. That reflects principle. On the other hand, I believe her antagonism toward Trump prevented her from weighing the evidence more fairly which did a disservice to the American people.

The politically safe course of action for Romney was to go along with the majority of his party in the senate to not convict Trump. He chose to vote his conscience. There was zero upside for him in taking that course of action and that too effectively ended his career. I think that is by definition a principled action.

Step away from "this sheltered forum?" I would urge that on any number of contributors who seem to only ingest and parrot the latest outrage getting clicks over on NEWSMAX or Breitbart. I am fully aware that there is a movement among a large portion of the population toward a greater role of government in our daily lives. I believe that is indeed a cyclic phenomena. There is considerable polling that shows younger millennials are far more conservative than their Gen X fellow travelers. For that, I think we can thank democrat and social excess.

There is also relatively little the president can do about this other than prevent any new intrusive legislation for four years. Trump may find that harder than most because he will be a lame duck from day one. Perhaps he can take executive action concerning bathrooms.

And yes, I think the Freedom Caucus is made up of a bevy of self-indulgent imbeciles that have cost the party and the country a great deal. Though, I suppose one can be brave and utterly stupid at the same time.

 

[SaintPanzer]

OK, I'll say it out loud. And Mr. Trump is a perfect example of this.

In my mind, a conservative is one who believes that government should be limited, and as local as possible. Instead, the Republican party today has evolved from this "local" view to: The Federal Government Should Be Making Rules That Are The Opposite Of What The Democratic Party Is Doing.

Other examples will occur to you, but consider the abortion issue. The Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade along 9th and 10th Amendment grounds. The issue should be left to the states, because the Constitution is silent on the matter, and any such issues "belong to the States, or to the People."

Democrats: We need a Federal Law to codify Roe v. Wade.
Republicans: We need a Federal Law limiting abortion.

True Conservatives: This is a State Issue.

Consider this: If we were to codify, one way or the other, by what constitutional authority would we do this? Specifically, under which clause in Article 1 would you refer?

Similarly, how many times are we saying "The President should..."? Are these not properly Legislative tasks? Is there not a reason why the Legislative Branch is defined in Article 1, and the Executive in Article 2?

In my mind, if you're doing things by Executive Order that properly require legislation, you're a RINO.

 

[Red Leg]

OK, I'll say it out loud. And Mr. Trump is a perfect example of this.

In my mind, a conservative is one who believes that government should be limited, and as local as possible. Instead, the Republican party today has evolved from this "local" view to: The Federal Government Should Be Making Rules That Are The Opposite Of What The Democratic Party Is Doing.

Other examples will occur to you, but consider the abortion issue. The Supreme Court struck down Roe v. Wade along 9th and 10th Amendment grounds. The issue should be left to the states, because the Constitution is silent on the matter, and any such issues "belong to the States, or to the People."

Democrats: We need a Federal Law to codify Roe v. Wade.
Republicans: We need a Federal Law limiting abortion.

True Conservatives: This is a State Issue.

Consider this: If we were to codify, one way or the other, by what constitutional authority would we do this? Specifically, under which clause in Article 1 would you refer?

Similarly, how many times are we saying "The President should..."? Are these not properly Legislative tasks? Is there not a reason why the Legislative Branch is defined in Article 1, and the Executive in Article 2?

In my mind, if you're doing things by Executive Order that properly require legislation, you're a RINO.

Trump signed 220 Executive Orders. To date, Biden has signed 130.

 

[Red Leg]

SNL could likely resurrect their brand with a bit more even-handed political lampooning.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1840394223184458166

 

[1dirthawker]

ou and I often butt heads over Freedom Caucus members who you often claim to be nothing more than self-aggrandizing distracters and agitators to the political process, whereas I view most of them as the small handful of brave individuals who have demonstrated that they will not compromise or capitulate with the democrats or RINOs... They actually went to D.C. and are executing the will of their constituency that sent them with the mandate to oppose swamp business as usual... Imagine that! A politician that actually goes to D.C. and votes the will of his electorate...! Madness!

+1

this is how i would sum up the freedom caucus as well. they DO butt heads with the main republican party on occasion. and i usually find myself in agreement with them. i believe they DO speak for their constituents, as does apparently, AOC.

re: trump,
he is not a politician, i am thankful for that. he DOES bluster about on occasion, sometimes in a petty way. (i suspect if i was given 95% bad press all the time, i might do the same petty stuff) he is a narcissist, ( i think to survive as a politician and the negative press, one has to be a little bit that way) and he certainly has some things that can aggravate another person. (my typing in small font does that to some people

however, given his short comings (of which there are quite a few) i find that when he speaks, most of the time, he is saying EXACTLY WHAT I AM THINKING! that might be a poor reflection on me as well, but the gist of what he says is what i translate, not the exact wording.

so, with that in mind, i am looking at BOTH candidates and find i cannot observe a single redeeming thing that Kamala stands for. is she a good spokesperson for america? nope. is she trustworthy? nope. is she a good person/mean well for her country? nope. do ANY of her values align with mine? nope. would you want her in charge of running your company or 401K? nope. will this country be better for you, your kids or your grandkids with her in charge in 4 years? certainly not, because the country itself (not the stock market) has not gotten better in the 4 years that she has been in office. did she do anything that she was put in charge of; i.e. the border (czar), finding root causes, getting out of afghanistan, etc in a excellent or competent manner? no again. did she get ANY votes from her constituency, to be placed in her current position of power? (the democratic process that she is so concerned about, like a primary for example) again NO.

so, with that in mind, i can say pretty confidently, that for me, she is a poor choice for running this country that i truly love, that i have served (in military) and wish to be a better place for the people that will be left if i was to die today. (minus a bunch of illegals SHE helped let in)

in a binary choice for president, it is not even a close decision. as my good friend @Velo Dog would say: "your mileage may vary"

 

[Neophyte]

I nominate Hank Williams Jr. for President of the Southern States.

I’m an isolationist that wants little to no taxes, about 90% of the federal government culled, and the power in the hands of the state. I have little use for politicians. I find them to be a self serving bunch of lying hypocrites. Yes, I’ve said that to a now retired county politician who was proud that his offspring were following in his footsteps.

I’ve yet to meet a democrat, communist, I’d like to have a beer with and very few republicans. The writing on the wall tells me that the sun has set on this nation. I will continue to vote for small government, low taxes, and letting people make their own choices. If they choose wrong it’s not the government’s job to bail them out.

No. I don’t want to burn it down as some claim. I want to return to being a Constitutional Republic as our founders intended. The divide between the two parties is really minimal. One side is reaching into my pocket and the other one is reaching into the pocket of the other guy. They are both crooked and useless.

I have little use at this stage of my life for compromise or going along to get along.

 

[freefall]

I have no family or loved ones and don’t want any.

I reiterate, I'm happy you're happy.

 

[BSO Dave]

My point merely being that Trump does not fit the traditional description of a republican conservative. Moreover, I find very little about him that is reminiscent of Ronald Reagan. I will grant you that his cultural values are generally conservative as long as they don't apply to him personally, but other than his tax policy, there is little about his protectionist economic instincts that fit the traditional free trade position of the conservative movement in this country. I do not care to debate protectionism, but simply point out that Trump is as easily labeled a republican in name only as the far right labels Lindsey Graham the same.

I believe that Cheney was incensed over Trump's actions following the election and on January 6th. I personally found his rhetoric calling far and encouraging those demonstrations inexcusable. It was indeed more than just a hissy fit but can only be explained as an effort to overthrow the results of the election. Participating in the heavily democrat review of January 6 in the face of the severe criticism of her constituents and much of her party, destroyed Cheney's political career. That reflects principle. On the other hand, I believe her antagonism toward Trump prevented her from weighing the evidence more fairly which did a disservice to the American people.

The politically safe course of action for Romney was to go along with the majority of his party in the senate to not convict Trump. He chose to vote his conscience. There was zero upside for him in taking that course of action and that too effectively ended his career. I think that is by definition a principled action.

Step away from "this sheltered forum?" I would urge that on any number of contributors who seem to only ingest and parrot the latest outrage getting clicks over on NEWSMAX or Breitbart. I am fully aware that there is a movement among a large portion of the population toward a greater role of government in our daily lives. I believe that is indeed a cyclic phenomena. There is considerable polling that shows younger millennials are far more conservative than their Gen X fellow travelers. For that, I think we can thank democrat and social excess.

There is also relatively little the president can do about this other than prevent any new intrusive legislation for four years. Trump may find that harder than most because he will be a lame duck from day one. Perhaps he can take executive action concerning bathrooms.

As always, you are entitled to your point of view which I respect, although I definitely have a different perspective on most of your positions above...

In regard to both Cheney and Romney who were my chosen, but hardly the only examples of RINOism, they are both entitled, elitist, rich people who are completely out of touch with the average American. Committing political suicide hardly qualifies them for unemployment, or sympathy... They risked nothing but political stature and power which is quite survivable for people of their means... Somehow, they will both avoid homelessness over their treason... Yes, I said treason... Their gamble was calculated politics, not examples of exemplary character...

And yes, I think the Freedom Caucus is made up of a bevy of self-indulgent imbeciles that have cost the party and the country a great deal. Though, I suppose one can be brave and utterly stupid at the same time.

Again, I disagree wholeheartedly...

Your idea of working across the aisle with compromise and capitulation no longer works... You feel the D.C. wheel needs a patch... The freedom Caucus and their constituency think it's completely broken and needs to be replaced... Political bravery is sticking to those convictions even though they are unpopular with the status quo of the swamp. Political bravery is the willingness to tell hard truths even though they may be painful to the American people... I will take any Freedom Causcus member any day over one of your RINOs...

Trump signed 220 Executive Orders. To date, Biden has signed 130.

Had he not had to battle with the democrats and the RINOS simultaneously, maybe he could have signed more bills into law than E/O's...

Furthermore, Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation as an E/O because he was denied the legislative path at the time... Lincoln was the first to admit that he may have abused the powers of his office in doing so, but he was willing to take that risk. He went on to explain that if the people decided he exceeded his executive powers by doing so, they could vote him out in his next term... That was probably the best example of true principled conviction in modern history... It's fascinating how great political leaders measure their success by the electorate and not the opinions of their political peers...

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I find it interesting and worthy of some thought that the two groups most loudly proclaiming we should burn it all down are ANTIFA and angry old white guys.

My father, who was a well respected historian (as a child, I would sit at the supper table and listen to him and Steve Ambrose debate current and past issues) said that there really wasn't a left and right. Political activism was actually a circle and the farther one went in either extreme, the closer they became. I think there was a lot of truth in that observation. From a victim's perspective how does one choose between a Hitler or a Stalin. One also could find a few receipts in this discussion.

Angry old white guys.. You sound like CNN. I should think that a comment like that would be beneath a person of your stature. I would imagine you would likely call someone out over a comment like that if it were targeted at you but it’s perfectly reasonable for you to do the same since there’s an easy target involved? I’ve noticed over time that you’ve got quite the habit of that.

You’re an old white guy yourself and there are plenty of other demographics that are unhappy but not necessarily calling for the burning down of anything. That said, sometimes I think you’d be perfectly content with letting it burn down so you can stand over the ashes and say “What a shame.” Your derisive and dismissive attitude

It may be age related repetition but your bringing up your parents on occasion doesn’t really do you any favors. Talk about breeding? There’s some truth to it but minus elaboration it just comes off as elitist. Your dad was an academic, your mom said the above, you were a college educated officer for decades followed by an executive position in the defense industry then you retired to a “gentleman’s ranch” in the Texas Hill Country. Add all that up and you get someone who is out of touch with the majority of Americans.

The more time that goes on the more I think that you don’t have any more in common with the common man than @Tanks does because no matter what you say in your defense, your posts speak for themselves and they tell a different tale.

 

[Red Leg]

Angry old white guys.. You sound like CNN. I should think that a comment like that would be beneath a person of your stature. I would imagine you would likely call someone out over a comment like that if it were targeted at you but it’s perfectly reasonable for you to do the same since there’s an easy target involved? I’ve noticed over time that you’ve got quite the habit of that.

You’re an old white guy yourself and there are plenty of other demographics that are unhappy but not necessarily calling for the burning down of anything. That said, sometimes I think you’d be perfectly content with letting it burn down so you can stand over the ashes and say “What a shame.” Your derisive and dismissive attitude

It may be age related repetition but your bringing up your parents on occasion doesn’t really do you any favors. Talk about breeding? There’s some truth to it but minus elaboration it just comes off as elitist. Your dad was an academic, your mom said the above, you were a college educated officer for decades followed by an executive position in the defense industry then you retired to a “gentleman’s ranch” in the Texas Hill Country. Add all that up and you get someone who is out of touch with the majority of Americans.

The more time that goes on the more I think that you don’t have any more in common with the common man than @Tanks does because no matter what you say in your defense, your posts speak for themselves and they tell a different tale.

And now the best you can contribute is to get personal? If it helps you should consider I have no personal feelings with respect to you.

What I do know is that I often disagree with much of the mutual feel good complaining that I read in this “discussion.” I call that independent thinking. Others seem to call that objectionable.

If my views are intolerable to you, don’t read my posts. Though I might cautiously suggest that may say more about you than me.

 

[BSO Dave]

And now the best you can contribute is to get personal? If it helps you should consider I have no personal feelings with respect to you.

What I do know is that I often disagree with much of the mutual feel good complaining that I read in this “discussion.” I call that independent thinking. Others seem to call that objectionable.

If my views are intolerable to you, don’t read my posts. Though I might cautiously suggest that may say more about you than me.

I don't think he was getting personal... I think he was pointing out what I and many others have also called you out for in some of your replies which can be condescending and a bit elitest at times...

You have taken your ball and gone home with me on more than one occasion in these discussions... If you feel you are wasting your time with certain individuals the ignore function works both ways... I personally would rather engage than ignore especially when I am having a debate with someone who is obviously intelligent even though we do not agree... There is always value in that...

Take the constructive criticism and reflect upon it for what it's worth...

 

[freefall]

It's only CONSTRUCTIVE criticism when I'M doing the criticizing.
Directed at me, it's personal abuse.
Quite possibly, a hate crime!

 

[Datchew]

Your idea of working across the aisle with compromise and capitulation no longer works... You feel the D.C. wheel needs a patch... The freedom Caucus and their constituency think it's completely broken and needs to be replaced...

I think this is a pretty damn good assessment of the fracture in the Republican party... Maybe "conservativism" in general.

Not including red leg but instead generally speaking, the old party is bloated, fat, and filled with folks more focused on being an upstanding member in the country club than in effectively doing their core purposes for which they were appointed.

They go native and join the uniparty blob.

Worse, they're attacking their own when they point out that the house is burning down around us domestically while they're spending the family fortune on non-citizens at home in our faces as well as wasting it on wars in another country.

(Yes, some military involvement is necessary but the priorities are ass backwards. Like the stupid engineer fresh out of school with a pregnant wife buying his Corvette and living in a apartment)

The key thing people want is effectiveness from their elected leaders and we haven't had it for about 40 years despite worse service and higher prices.

 

[Red Leg]

I don't think he was getting personal... I think he was pointing out what I and many others have also called you out for in some of your replies which can be condescending and a bit elitest at times...

You have taken your ball and gone home with me on more than one occasion in these discussions... If you feel you are wasting your time with certain individuals the ignore function works both ways... I personally would rather engage than ignore especially when I am having a debate with someone who is obviously intelligent even though we do not agree... There is always value in that...

Take the constructive criticism and reflect upon it for what it's worth...

Then I would urge you to not read my posts if they are so objectionable.

And you are correct. I made the error of again responding to one of your posts directed to me.

 

[freefall]

Then I would urge you to not read my posts if they are so objectionable.

And you are correct. I made the error of again responding to one of your posts directed to me.

Exceedingly mature and reasoned response there.

 

[barryk]

Trump signed 220 Executive Orders. To date, Biden has signed 130.

Unfortunately....I believe executive orders accelerated on both sides as Congress relinquished their responsibility to make decisions and pass laws.