Norma Big Game ammo question

[JG26Irish_2]

I am planning a Safari to SA for next year. My plains game rifle for that trip is an old FN Browning in 308 Win. It is an old 1960's era Mauser style rifle but is in great shape and was never shot much. It is a reasonably accurate rifle and can print 1" groups at 100y and about 2.5" groups at 200y and 4" groups at 300y from a bench. Slightly less precise from the sticks with good ammo. I had zeroed it at 200y with other ammo last year while getting it ready but for the hunt I was planning to use 180g Swift A-Frame bullets. While I do reload, I was not planning to reload for this hunt. I tried to buy some Swift ammo but it was out of stock. So, when I found a supply of Norma Large Game ammo loaded with the excellent Swift A-Frame bullets I bit the bullet and bought ten boxes of it thinking I would practice and verify my dope with it over time and then take the rest on the hunt, yada yada. Now for the rest of the story...

I finally got a day with temps that were closer to SA winters and took the little FN to the range to test the Norma Ammo, tweak zero and shoot it at 200/300/400y for ballistic verification. I also brought along two boxes of Federal Fusion 180g. These are cheap ammo, and they look it but they shoot well in the FN and other rifles and was what I had used to zero the rifle. At 200y the Fusion grouped 2" right on tgt. I then shot the Norma ammo and it struggled to print a 10" group with one shot very high and all off to the left a few inches. WTF? I also shot both at 300y. The Fusion ammo printed a neat triangular 3" group and dropped within an inch of predictions. The Norma was dropping a bit less but grouped (if you can call it that) all over the place. About 18" grp. I was able to hit a full sized IPSC plate at 400y with it but did not drive down to score the hits. Based on this first test, I have 10 boxes of crap ammo that is not good enough to use on an important hunt. Norma has a great reputation but this is the first time I have tried their factory CF ammo and am very disappointed. I do not think the bullets are the problem. Either this ammo was poorly stored or the loading QC was poor.

My questions: Do any of you have experience with the Norma large game ammo in typical plains game calibers? What was your experience? Good/Bad/Ugly? I still have time so I plan to shop for some of Swift's factory ammo or the Barnes X ammo. Last option is custom reloads with A-Frames. Comments?

Irish

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I’ve used the Norma 300Gr Oryx factory load in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum to hunt African leopard over bait. I was most impressed.

Also used their 200Gr Oryx factory load in .300 Winchester Magnum to hunt European red stag. Very satisfactory performance.

Also used their 100Gr Oryx factory load in .243 Winchester to hunt African impala. Very pleased with their performance.

 

[AimSmall]

The Norma has been very accurate for me, which bullet was it? Norma loads the Swift, and their own. Several other companies load the Swift as well.

 

[wesheltonj]

I’ve used Norma Oryx factory in 308 and 375, since the Obama ammo shortage. No flyers-yet.

 

[UpNorthMI]

I've shot a lot of Norma factory ammo in many calibers and loaded many different Norma bullets and always have had great results. I just purchased some of the 180gn Swift A Frame Norma .308 Win ammo but have not shot any yet.

I've had a similar experience to yourself when I moved from shooting 150/165gn bullets to 180gn bullets in several Ruger .308 rifles that I have. The twist in the rifles was not enough to stabilize the heavier 180gn bullets. I purchased this recent Norma ammo with the thought to pull the bullets to load in 300 Win Mag but thought I would also see how they shoot in a .308 Blaser rifle.

You state you are comparing Federal 180gn to Norma 180gn, could those Federal loads you were using be 150gn by any chance? At least that may explain the issue in that the Norma 180gn loads are struggling to be stabilized . I'll try to get out and test my Norma 308 180gn ammunition in the next couple of weeks.

 

[dchum]

I have 4 boxes of Norma big game loaded with 180gr swift a frames. In my bergara .308 its prints right at and inch. My friends tried some out in his Bergara and its prints 3 inches at 100 just on Saturday. His preferred 165 accubond.
Some rifles just don’t like them I guess.

I would just shoot your 180 fusion. You rifle seems to shoot them great. Plenty of weight and I would say even a good choice for your SA plains game hunt!

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I've shot a lot of Norma factory ammo in many calibers and loaded many different Norma bullets and always have had great results. I just purchased some of the 180gn Swift A Frame Norma .308 Win ammo but have not shot any yet.

I've had a similar experience to yourself when I moved from shooting 150/165gn bullets to 180gn bullets in several Ruger .308 rifles that I have. The twist in the rifles was not enough to stabilize the heavier 180gn bullets. I purchased this recent Norma ammo with the thought to pull the bullets to load in 300 Win Mag but thought I would also see how they shoot in a .308 Blaser rifle.

You state you are comparing Federal 180gn to Norma 180gn, could those Federal loads you were using be 150gn by any chance? At least that may explain the issue in that the Norma 180gn loads are struggling to be stabilized . I'll try to get out and test my Norma 308 180gn ammunition in the next couple of weeks.

Thank You - The Fusion ammo is indeed the 180g bonded core ammo. If the rifle can stabilize the 180g Fusion the twist rate should not be the issue. I really do not need A-Frames for the plains game side of the hunt but had chosen them anyway. There are a few other options out there who load the Swift bullets and it does shoot the Barnes X ammo well. Fusion while cheap fodder has a good rep for accuracy, good expansion and deep penetration (sounds like a porn star, lol). I was just really disappointed with the premium ammo from Norma. I do have plenty of time to adjust and am looking for suggestions. When I clean the rifle tomorrow I plan to measure the twist rate.

I know every rifle is different but when you do get time to test your Norma ammo in your 308 do please let me know the results. If your rifle likes the Norma, I can make a killer deal on some more of it.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Thank You - The Fusion ammo is indeed the 180g bonded core ammo. If the rifle can stabilize the 180g Fusion the twist rate should not be the issue. I really do not need A-Frames for the plains game side of the hunt but had chosen them anyway. There are a few other options out there who load the Swift bullets and it does shoot the Barnes X ammo well. Fusion while cheap fodder has a good rep for accuracy, good expansion and deep penetration (sounds like a porn star, lol). I was just really disappointed with the premium ammo from Norma. I do have plenty of time to adjust and am looking for suggestions. When I clean the rifle tomorrow I plan to measure the twist rate.

I know every rifle is different but when you do get time to test your Norma ammo in your 308 do please let me know the results. If your rifle likes the Norma, I can make a killer deal on some more of it.

I shot some of my Norma Swift A Frame 180gn .308 Win ammo today in my Benelli R1 Endurance synthetic semi auto rifle today, it’s normally a very accurate rifle with 150gn ammo. The Norma 180gn achieved a 4-5” group at 100 yards from the bench, totally unacceptable.

I will revert back to my initial plan of pulling the Swift bullet heads for use in 300 Win Mag and reloading the new .308 cases, with 150gn bullets using the factory powder. I will report back one I try these Swift bullets in my 300 win mag.

Maybe they are “bad” bullets and that is why the ammo is selling so cheap.

 

[dchum]

I shot some of my Norma Swift A Frame 180gn .308 Win ammo today in my Benelli R1 Endurance synthetic semi auto rifle today, it’s normally a very accurate rifle with 150gn ammo. The Norma 180gn achieved a 4-5” group at 100 yards from the bench, totally unacceptable.

I will revert back to my initial plan of pulling the Swift bullet heads for use in 300 Win Mag and reloading the new .308 cases, with 150gn bullets using the factory powder. I will report back one I try these Swift bullets in my 300 win mag.

Maybe they are “bad” bullets and that is why the ammo is selling so cheap.

My .308 180 swift a frame loaded by Norma is very accurate at 100 yards. This is in an 18inch bergara barrel. 1-10 twist.

Ordered the ammo from @RAVEN ROCKS PRECISION . I’m taking it Nilgai hunting soon can’t wait.

 

[UpNorthMI]

My .308 180 swift a frame loaded by Norma is very accurate at 100 yards. This is in an 18inch bergara barrel. 1-10 twist.

Ordered the ammo from @RAVEN ROCKS PRECISION . I’m taking it Nilgai hunting soon can’t wait.

Every .308 rifle I’m trying is 1-11” twist, they do great with 150-165gn bullets but not with 180gn bullets. Thanks for your input I guess 1-11” twist is not enough to stabilize these 180gn bullets properly.

 

[RAVEN ROCKS PRECISION]

I shot some of my Norma Swift A Frame 180gn .308 Win ammo today in my Benelli R1 Endurance synthetic semi auto rifle today, it’s normally a very accurate rifle with 150gn ammo. The Norma 180gn achieved a 4-5” group at 100 yards from the bench, totally unacceptable.

I will revert back to my initial plan of pulling the Swift bullet heads for use in 300 Win Mag and reloading the new .308 cases, with 150gn bullets using the factory powder. I will report back one I try these Swift bullets in my 300 win mag.

Maybe they are “bad” bullets and that is why the ammo is selling so cheap.

Just want to clarify, the great price has nothing to do with any defect/blem/second etc.

Sorry they didn't group well for you though.

 

[sureshot375]

I shot some of my Norma Swift A Frame 180gn .308 Win ammo today in my Benelli R1 Endurance synthetic semi auto rifle today, it’s normally a very accurate rifle with 150gn ammo. The Norma 180gn achieved a 4-5” group at 100 yards from the bench, totally unacceptable.

I will revert back to my initial plan of pulling the Swift bullet heads for use in 300 Win Mag and reloading the new .308 cases, with 150gn bullets using the factory powder. I will report back one I try these Swift bullets in my 300 win mag.

Maybe they are “bad” bullets and that is why the ammo is selling so cheap.

I think this is going to be a twist rate issue for sure.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Just want to clarify, the great price has nothing to do with any defect/blem/second etc.

Sorry they didn't group well for you though.

I purchased this ammo for the components, I did not expect these 180gn bullets to shoot well in any of my .308 win rifles as they just don’t have the twist to stabilize this weight of bullets.

My 300 win mag loves 180 gn bullets, I’m hoping these Swift A Frames shoot as well as the Norma Oryx 180gn bullets that I’ve been loading recently.

The new .308 brass and powder will be used with a 150gn bullet that I know will shoot well in my 1-11” twist .308 rifles.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Again, thank you for your input. Clearly, I am not alone on this issue. I still have not yet checked my twist rate. Hope to do so today. My rifle is an older vintage rifle and I do not know the rate of twist on it. Still, it is doing great with other 180g ammunitions, so if it is a twist/stabilization issue, then it is at the borderline. My ammo also came from Raven Rock Precision. To those of you whose rifles like this ammo, do let me know if you want a real deal on some more of it? I have 9-sealed boxes of 308 win 180g Norma with the Swift A-frame bullets. These are about as good as it gets for large game but I cannot use them. Will sell for a deeply discounted rate.

 

[cash_tx]

Again, thank you for your input. Clearly, I am not alone on this issue. I still have not yet checked my twist rate. Hope to do so today. My rifle is an older vintage rifle and I do not know the rate of twist on it. Still, it is doing great with other 180g ammunitions, so if it is a twist/stabilization issue, then it is at the borderline. My ammo also came from Raven Rock Precision. To those of you whose rifles like this ammo, do let me know if you want a real deal on some more of it? I have 9-sealed boxes of 308 win 180g Norma with the Swift A-frame bullets. These are about as good as it gets for large game but I cannot use them. Will sell for a deeply discounted rate.

Sorry to hear about this issue, and I have sent you a PM about the remaining boxes.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

I cleaned and put away the rifle this morning and while at it did a check of the twist rate. It measured about 12:1. This seems a bit slow for the long 180g bullets. I also looked closer at the tgt and it was not quite as bad as I thought. But the other ammo shot better so, I will be looking for other options for my hunt. I think this is just a rifle issue where the bullets are barely getting stabilized and as such it did not shoot up to my standards.

 

[Longwalker]

Interesting about your twist rate in that FN Browning. I had the same model/ caliber rifle, and mine was more accurate with 165 gr. bullets than it was with 180’s. Now I know why. I have full confidence in Norma ammunition, but obviously that long a-frame 180 grain bullet is no good in your slow twist rifle. Thanks for sharing your experience and good luck on your hunt.

 

[pilar]

I cleaned and put away the rifle this morning and while at it did a check of the twist rate. It measured about 12:1. This seems a bit slow for the long 180g bullets. I also looked closer at the tgt and it was not quite as bad as I thought. But the other ammo shot better so, I will be looking for other options for my hunt. I think this is just a rifle issue where the bullets are barely getting stabilized and as such it did not shoot up to my standards.

Grab some 165gr federal trophy bonded tipped , maybe the gun with like them???
barnes vortex 165 ttsx ?

 

[R eight]

Can’t comment on Norma ammunition in 308. But I have used their ammunition in both 9.3 x 62 and 30/06 with excellent results.

However, I’ve had a similar experience to yours with Federal Premium ammunition in 30/06. My R8 and Rigby both tack drove with the 180 grain Nosler partitions loaded by Federal. But the last batch I bought is rubbish. 3” groups at 100 yards at best. I found that out about 4 months before a moose hunt in 2023. Ended up having to buy, from another shooter, a slab of Sako 180 grain Super Hammer Head ammunition. It shoot well and killed my moose.

Good luck

 

[Firebird]

What is the overall length of the ammo that is not working well for you-maybe a bit long and into the lands?
My daughter has used fed fusion 120 gr in her 7mm-08 for a big mule deer buck and I was very Impressed with the performance. I bought it for cheap Practice ammo but it shot so well that we ended up hunting with it.
Good luck with your situation