New Holland double

[ianthompson]

Hi I was fortunate to aquire an 1897 H&H 450/400 3 1/4 nitro express very reasonable cost. (2800) I am fairly new to double rifles so need to develop a load and plan on trying reloader 15 with 280 cast bullets (it was the closest I could find). I know I should get Graeme Wrights book but haven't found an affordable copy. I will try to use his cordite conversion and foam backer rod.
I was also able to get 20 pieces of Hornady so should be ready to start working un a load.

The rifle is regulated for 40 grains cordite and a 270 grain bullet.

The questions I have are if it is common to loose or damage firearms on a trip to Africa (I have never hunted outside wisconsin and would rather have to restock my 416 98 action than the H&H) how big of game can I take with this combination in africa and can you use hand loads abroad if the headstamp is for the correct cartridge?

Thanks.

 

[VertigoBE]

Congrats on your new double rifle. Would love to see some picture.

Now on to your questions:
firearms getting lost, or damaged during travel, does happen. But not at a rate that everyone who travels to Africa with a firearm will experience this. Insurance is also a thing.
With a 450/400, with the correct bullets, you can take any and all game on this planet. Up to and including brain shots on elephant.
Correct, head stamp's need to match what is on the rifle (although i have no one take a look at the headstamp yet. Usually they just look at the outside of the factory box and count the number of rounds inside.

 

[Mekaniks]

Hi I was fortunate to aquire an 1897 H&H 450/400 3 1/4 nitro express very reasonable cost. (2800) I am fairly new to double rifles so need to develop a load and plan on trying reloader 15 with 280 cast bullets (it was the closest I could find). I know I should get Graeme Wrights book but haven't found an affordable copy. I will try to use his cordite conversion and foam backer rod.
I was also able to get 20 pieces of Hornady so should be ready to start working un a load.

The rifle is regulated for 40 grains cordite and a 270 grain bullet.

The questions I have are if it is common to loose or damage firearms on a trip to Africa (I have never hunted outside wisconsin and would rather have to restock my 416 98 action than the H&H) how big of game can I take with this combination in africa and can you use hand loads abroad if the headstamp is for the correct cartridge?

Thanks.

Welcome to AH

Congratulations on your double. It sounds like a great find.

Please post some pics. We have an unwritten rule around here, if there is no pics it didn't happen

 

[Red Leg]

If it is actually regulated for a 270 gr bullet, that will be a problem hunting any thick skinned game. Your rifle is apparently designed to perform at 450/500 3 1/4 Black Powder Express pressures and velocity using cordite. The 270 gr bullet was a BPE load. Those rifles were not designed to be used on thick skinned DG. Such a bullet from that caliber and velocity will have the SD of an ashtray. It would be fine for PG in Africa at short range - even a lion perhaps, but I wouldn't attempt to use it on a buffalo much less an elephant.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Red Leg is 101% correct. You may want to send the rifle to Ken Owens & have him develop a load for you. He can probably take it to its maximum safe level.

 

[ianthompson]

Well I can't get the pictures to upload. I will try again later. It is stamped cordite 40 270 so there is no doubt in my mind it is regulated for a mild cartridge. Probably best to use it for black bear and deer. I was able to get an interarms magnum action new in the box that will become a 416 taylor (only because the brother in law has a swedging set for 416) so will use that instead. Thanks.

 

[318AE]

Pictures will prove very helpful. I suspect this rifle may have been re-regulated and reproofed “nitro for black” at some point after its original manufacture. I’ve never had an issue taking a rifle to Africa - lots of paperwork, but ultimately no issues. Sounds like a fun rifle to carry through a riverine thicket, hunting for bushbuck and the like.

 

[ianthompson]

Pictures will prove very helpful. I suspect this rifle may have been re-regulated and reproofed “nitro for black” at some point after its original manufacture. I’ve never had an issue taking a rifle to Africa - lots of paperwork, but ultimately no issues. Sounds like a fun rifle to carry through a riverine thicket, hunting for bushbuck and the like.

 

[ianthompson]

 

[ianthompson]

View attachment 540629

 

[ianthompson]

They came out in an odd rotation but you get the idea.

 

[Mekaniks]

View attachment 540629

Very Nice!! Thanks for sharing

 

[VertigoBE]

If it is actually regulated for a 270 gr bullet, that will be a problem hunting any thick skinned game. Your rifle is apparently designed to perform at 450/500 3 1/4 Black Powder Express pressures and velocity using cordite. The 270 gr bullet was a BPE load. Those rifles were not designed to be used on thick skinned DG. Such a bullet from that caliber and velocity will have the SD of an ashtray. It would be fine for PG in Africa at short range - even a lion perhaps, but I wouldn't attempt to use it on a buffalo much less an elephant.

I learn something yet again. Need to keep my mouth shut more and listen!

 

[Rare Breed]

If it is actually regulated for a 270 gr bullet, that will be a problem hunting any thick skinned game. Your rifle is apparently designed to perform at 450/500 3 1/4 Black Powder Express pressures and velocity using cordite. The 270 gr bullet was a BPE load. Those rifles were not designed to be used on thick skinned DG. Such a bullet from that caliber and velocity will have the SD of an ashtray. It would be fine for PG in Africa at short range - even a lion perhaps, but I wouldn't attempt to use it on a buffalo much less an elephant.

I believe the closest powder to cordite is the IMR3031

 

[318AE]

I think what I see is the following:

An original proof mark, marked out - likely the original BP proof
A BP proof which would indicate “nitro for black” at this time; and the nitro/cordite proofs.

A “full up” nitro 450/300 3” would be 60 gr cordite and a 400 gr bullet (although many were proofed/regulated at 55 as “tropical“ loads due to cordite‘s temperature sensitivity). I believe a 450/400 3.25 is also generally proofed at 60 gr.

All that aside - really cool rifle and a great buy…..

View attachment 540628

 

[ianthompson]

I think what I see is the following:

An original proof mark, marked out - likely the original BP proof
A BP proof which would indicate “nitro for black” at this time; and the nitro/cordite proofs.

A “full up” nitro 450/300 3” would be 60 gr cordite and a 400 gr bullet (although many were proofed/regulated at 55 as “tropical“ loads due to cordite‘s temperature sensitivity). I believe a 450/400 3.25 is also generally proofed at 60 gr.

All that aside - really cool rifle and a great buy…..

I was read someplace that 450 400 was popular in India so have wondered if it was intended for tiger or something smaller like that. Either way it was too interesting not to get it. Same fellow was at a gun show this winter with a Holland rook rifle in .295 rook than also ended up coming home with me.

 

[ianthompson]

 

[Red Leg]

A rook rifle is a special thing!

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

If it is actually regulated for a 270 gr bullet, that will be a problem hunting any thick skinned game. Your rifle is apparently designed to perform at 450/500 3 1/4 Black Powder Express pressures and velocity using cordite. The 270 gr bullet was a BPE load. Those rifles were not designed to be used on thick skinned DG. Such a bullet from that caliber and velocity will have the SD of an ashtray. It would be fine for PG in Africa at short range - even a lion perhaps, but I wouldn't attempt to use it on a buffalo much less an elephant.

SD of an ashtray

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

Reproofed as indicated by the stamp.

EJ