New classic British shotgun acquisition

[Gsxrmike]

I thought you classic shotgun enthusiasts would enjoy seeing my recent acquisition. It is a Westley Richards
12 gauge double made in 1926. It is in fantastic condition and the bores are bright and free of pits.
I do have a question. It looks perfect to my inspection. Would you guys feel comfortable taking it to the range and firing some very light 1 oz loads through it or do you think I should have a gunsmith inspect it first?

 

[cpr0312]

Congrats on your new purchase!

Someone will be able to give you good advice on your question for sure

 

[marcosfal]

I would shoot that without hesitation. That’s just my opinion though.

 

[Red Leg]

I can't tell you anything from an internet photograph about whether a gun is safe to shoot. Nor can anyone else. Key measurement on these guns (assuming on face and that the ribs are solid - barrels should ring when tapped) is the barrel wall thickness. Too many of these guns had pitting removed with aggressive barrel polishing that has taken them out of proof and made them unsafe and unsalable in the UK - somehow they have a way of ending up over here. Not just any gunsmith can measure that for you and know what it means.

It looks like a nice gun, but all the case coloring is gone (in fact, the action looks polished) and the action pins and holes look to have been drifted by someone using a steel tool. That indicates someone may have been inside who should not have been. The action metal is fairly proud - not totally unusual with shrinkage over a hundred year period, but the stock looks like it might have been somewhat aggressively sanded when restored (even without holding the gun, the checkering looks to have clearly been re-cut). The action and stock refinish are potential red flags (again, I am only speculating from one photograph). It was also put into a modern made canvas case with a reproduction WR case label. In other words this is a nice looking, but likely well used gun that seems to have been dressed up a bit. It may indeed be in fantastic restored condition, but that needs an informed assessment. If you do not have a lot of expertise in assessing SxS's , it pays to do some due diligence (preferably before buying the gun - but certainly before shooting it.)

Were it me, I would not shoot it until someone competent had gone over it with a fine tooth comb. You are here in Texas, and JJ Perodeau https://jjperodeau.com/ is a short one-day ups shipment away in Oklahoma. For a very reasonable fee, he will disassemble, clean, and inspect the gun. He will hopefully tell you that I had no clue and that it is a wonderful original condition gun. But regardless, he will let you know what, if any issues, may be in play.

 

[norfolk shooter]

I must say a very nice gun indeed!! I would have the wall thickness checked on a gun of that age you never know!!!

 

[Red Leg]

Also, before shooting you need to determine the proof of the gun. Based on what you say is the date of manufacture, it is almost certainly a 2.5" chamber with max proof of 1 1/8 ounces. If you look, you can see that on the barrel flat. I have a number of 2.5 inch guns, and I only run 2.5 inch shells through them (they can be ordered by several manufacturers). A 2 3/4 light load won't blow it up, but it can cause difficulty in opening the action which puts unnecessary stress on the gun over time.

 

[Shootist43]

If I were you, I'd follow Red Leg's advice.

 

[Gsxrmike]

Also, before shooting you need to determine the proof of the gun. Based on what you say is the date of manufacture, it is almost certainly a 2.5" chamber with max proof of 1 1/8 ounces. If you look, you can see that on the barrel flat. I have a number of 2.5 inch guns, and I only run 2.5 inch shells through them (they can be ordered by several manufacturers). A 2 3/4 light load won't blow it up, but it can cause difficulty in opening the action which puts unnecessary stress on the gun over time.

Red Leg: Thanks for taking time to give me the detailed advice. I will definitely follow your advice and have your guy in OK give it a thorough inspection. Whatever he discovers I’ll still be happy to have it in my collection but it would be nice to get to fire a few shells through it.

 

[Red Leg]

And obviously, it is one of the premier makers, and their basic boxlocks were as solidly built guns as ever to come out of Birmingham. But like you would a fine looking '56 Chevy, have a good mechanic really check it out before taking it out for a drive.

 

[sierraone]

If I were you, I'd follow Red Leg's advice.

Always on doubles, and many other subjects also!

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Good Lord . That is a beautiful British game shot-gun. What a pleasant co-incidence . I have very recently acquired a 12 bore side by side shot-gun from Westley Richards myself ( with the photographs having been posted on these forums in an article titled " A seventy year dream come true " ) . Is yours calibrated for the 67 millimeter cartridge or the 70 millimeter cartridge ? And what are the choke level in each barrel ?
My own example is proofed for 1.25 ounce loadings ( having 70 millimeter chambers ) and has a quarter choke in one barrel and a half choke in one barrel. However , Red Leg and many other educated forum members very wisely told me to use 1 and one eighth ounce loading in mine , for stress reduction.
My own example was built only three years after yours ( 1929 ) and it has removable locks . I had my local gun smith inspect mine . It's barrels have a thickness in the walls of 0.031 . My local gun smith advised not to use any shot size larger than AAA in the gun , as it will strain the gun. The forum members here wisely advised me to be even more cautious and use nothing larger than number 6 cartridges in the old gun.
Red Leg gives very sound advise. Have the gun examined by a competent gun smith and most importantly enjoy your piece . I have a childhood weakness for British game shot-guns . I use Game Bore cartridges in mine and will also use Eley cartridges when l buy them next time from England . Heartiest congratulations for the shot-gun. It looks to be a gem.

 

[Gsxrmike]

Good Lord . That is a beautiful British game shot-gun. What a pleasant co-incidence . I have very recently acquired a 12 bore side by side shot-gun from Westley Richards myself ( with the photographs having been posted on these forums in an article titled " A seventy year dream come true " ) . Is yours calibrated for the 67 millimeter cartridge or the 70 millimeter cartridge ? And what are the choke level in each barrel ?
My own example is proofed for 1.25 ounce loadings ( having 70 millimeter chambers ) and has a quarter choke in one barrel and a half choke in one barrel. However , Red Leg and many other educated forum members very wisely told me to use 1 and one eighth ounce loading in mine , for stress reduction.
My own example was built only three years after yours ( 1929 ) and it has removable locks . I had my local gun smith inspect mine . It's barrels have a thickness in the walls of 0.031 . My local gun smith advised not to use any shot size larger than AAA in the gun , as it will strain the gun. The forum members here wisely advised me to be even more cautious and use nothing larger than number 6 cartridges in the old gun.
Red Leg gives very sound advise. Have the gun examined by a competent gun smith and most importantly enjoy your piece . I have a childhood weakness for British game shot-guns . I use Game Bore cartridges in mine and will also use Eley cartridges when l buy them next time from England . Heartiest congratulations for the shot-gun. It looks to be a gem.

Thanks. Mine is a more basic working gun compared to the gorgeous gun you purchased. Mine was 2 1/2 inch (63mm) but was converted to 2 3/4 (70 mm). It is currently in the hands of the gunsmith recommended by Redleg. As part of his inspection I’ve asked him to evaluate the chamber work to confirm that it was appropriately performed. I will be using RTS shells 3/4 oz loads of #6 or 7.5 shot if the gunsmith verifies the soundness of the gun.

I hope you enjoy many years of shooting your Westley Richards.
I’m afraid I’ve been bitten badly by the vintage shotgun bug.
This afternoon I purchased another Westley Richards 12 bore.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

Thanks. Mine is a more basic working gun compared to the gorgeous gun you purchased. Mine was 2 1/2 inch (63mm) but was converted to 2 3/4 (70 mm). It is currently in the hands of the gunsmith recommended by Redleg. As part of his inspection I’ve asked him to evaluate the chamber work to confirm that it was appropriately performed. I will be using RTS shells 3/4 oz loads of #6 or 7.5 shot if the gunsmith verifies the soundness of the gun.

I hope you enjoy many years of shooting your Westley Richards.
I’m afraid I’ve been bitten badly by the vintage shotgun bug.
This afternoon I purchased another Westley Richards 12 bore.

Gsxrmike
I can relate . I spend at least 20 minutes a day recently looking at fine vintage Belgian shot-guns in internet. My new fascination is knowing more about Belgian shot-guns .
And l would love to see pictures of your new 12 bore at a time of your convenience. I am sure it will be a beautiful one as well.

 

[Red Leg]

Thanks. Mine is a more basic working gun compared to the gorgeous gun you purchased. Mine was 2 1/2 inch (63mm) but was converted to 2 3/4 (70 mm). It is currently in the hands of the gunsmith recommended by Redleg. As part of his inspection I’ve asked him to evaluate the chamber work to confirm that it was appropriately performed. I will be using RTS shells 3/4 oz loads of #6 or 7.5 shot if the gunsmith verifies the soundness of the gun.

I hope you enjoy many years of shooting your Westley Richards.
I’m afraid I’ve been bitten badly by the vintage shotgun bug.
This afternoon I purchased another Westley Richards 12 bore.

It is a truly fine madness.

 

[shadowhunterz]

An excellent Trap gun, Congrats.

 

[Red Leg]

An excellent Trap gun, Congrats.

Not really.

However, it should, assuming it checks out, be a superb general purpose game gun. Trap guns were built like pigeon guns with 70mm chambers and tightly choked 30 or 32 inch barrels. With 1 ounce loads, this gun will be ideal for upland game.

 

[Gsxrmike]

I just received a call from Mr. Perodeau, the gunsmith recommended by Red Leg. He informed me that the gun is in great shape and should be perfectly safe to shoot. The minimum barrel wall thickness measurements were .028 and .029. The chokes were .010 and .020 which should be Improved Cylinder and Modified so that should work out fine for upland game hunting.
Although I plan to use lower pressure RTS shells, he said the gun should be fine if I wish to use regular 2 3/4 “ shells for late season pheasants.
Next will be a trip to the range to see how it patterns with different loads before I plan a hunt.

 

[Red Leg]

Excellent news!!! Like a positive physical from your physician. Congrats on a wonderful acquisition.

 

[Gsxrmike]

Thanks Red Leg!