Needing Latest Info For Building A Budget .416 Remington Mag Rifle

[Country-Folk]

I recently bought an early 1950's Remington 721 that was converted to a .375 H&H Mag with an Apex Match Grade barrel.
I'm not a hunter although I would love to go hunting like I did back in my teenage years but I'm now paraplegic and so not able to hunt unless a deer would be considerate to come in my back yard,
and so even though it costs nearly 5.00 every time that trigger is pulled, I just love the power of the 375 H&H Mag and love the hobby of learning the components of the gun, the functions of them, and reloading the rounds.

Now I'm wanting to build my own big game rifle... a .416 Remington Mag which I need to do a budget build whereby buying the components separately in order to even being able to buy them versus having to hand out upfront a MUCH larger amount of money for a complete rifle. And no, I dont care if I will have a little more money by going the route of buying the components separately versus buying the complete gun.... again, I could never afford the upfront cost of buying a complete gun.

I have already done a bit researching on this subject of building a gun but unfortunately I'm either not finding more-recent articles or not finding any info whereby the person provided detailed info .... they're content isn't pertaining to today's market or the content is only/mostly providing generalized info.

1) The main thing I need to know is what manufacture's bolt action is sold individually, it's good quality but at the lowest cost, and what is the model number of the action so I can be certain to only locate that identical bolt action within the search results of the web or within the manufactures web site.

Note: I just got off of the phone with Winchester and their parts department said they WILL NOT sell their bolt action by itself and WILL ONLY sell the complete rifle.

So is Mauser K98 Large Ring action a good choice, or is their extra modifications that have to be done? I seen people talking of using the Mauser K98 but they were saying the .416 cartridge wont fit in the magazine compartment and therefore metal had to be machined to make space and had to be very careful of the feed ramp.

I also seen people mention the Remington 700 action but many are saying the 700 is not the better way to go since the action is not quite made for the big ballz of a .416 magnum cartridge.

So are any of those things true? Are those bolt actions a good choice? What are some better choices for bolt actions?

2) Upon finding the bolt action to go with, I can then match up the barrel, trigger, stock, and sights for the gun on my own.

 

[ChrisG]

Hi @Country-Folk and welcome to AH.

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

1. As far as I know, the only company mass producing actions that can be bought by themselves for a reasonable price is Savage and they cost about as much as a brand new savage rifle. Short of going for a $5k Granite mountain action or the like, you're going to be into to the price of a Winchester M70 in 416 Rem Mag, (about $1,300-$1,600) with just the action and the barrel let alone any stock work or a scope/iron sights. New action+milling to make it fit, probably $1000 or more, plus buying a barrel ($300-$600) and having it installed, anywhere from $300-$750 or more depending on what you want to do.

If it were me, and it was at one point, I would (and did) buy a Ruger M77 African in .416 Ruger. It would have 90% of the power of a .416 Rem mag and look the part for probably around $1,250ish for a new rifle or $1,000 used.

Sorry, but labor is always going to be a major expense of building a rifle. I have accrued a number of tools over the years so that I could some of the work myself, but I still don't own a milling machine or a metal lathe for the meat and potatoes work. Skilled labor ain't cheap.

I may be way off in my numbers but I feel they are pretty conservative. Hope that points you in the right direction

 

[Country-Folk]

Hi @Country-Folk and welcome to AH.

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

1. As far as I know, the only company mass producing actions that can be bought by themselves for a reasonable price is Savage and they cost about as much as a brand new savage rifle. Short of going for a $5k Granite mountain action or the like, you're going to be into to the price of a Winchester M70 in 416 Rem Mag, (about $1,300-$1,600) with just the action and the barrel let alone any stock work or a scope/iron sights. New action+milling to make it fit, probably $1000 or more, plus buying a barrel ($300-$600) and having it installed, anywhere from $300-$750 or more depending on what you want to do.

If it were me, and it was at one point, I would (and did) buy a Ruger M77 African in .416 Ruger. It would have 90% of the power of a .416 Rem mag and look the part for probably around $1,250ish for a new rifle or $1,000 used.

Sorry, but labor is always going to be a major expense of building a rifle. I have accrued a number of tools over the years so that I could some of the work myself, but I still don't own a milling machine or a metal lathe for the meat and potatoes work. Skilled labor ain't cheap.

I may be way off in my numbers but I feel they are pretty conservative. Hope that points you in the right direction

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the information.
I realize there will be some machine work.
I'm very fortunate to have a dad who is a machinist and still working for Timet Metals for 50 years now. Although I will have to twist his arm to help me on this project lol. the nice thing is that he certainly knows how to get the job done.

So my main problems is knowing what action to go with.
After reading your suggestion, I tried checking out Savage's web site but didn't have much luck.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong since I didn't find any actions that are listed.
In their search box, I tried typing variables of:
"Actions"
"Magnum actions"
"Receivers"
"Bolt Actions for magnums rifles"

and I tried a couple other things on their site but just a LONG list of stuff showed up that had little to NOTHING to do with what I was searching for

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?

 

[ChrisG]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the information.
I realize there will be some machine work.
I'm very fortunate to have a dad who is a machinist and still working for Timet Metals for 50 years now. Although I will have to twist his arm to help me on this project lol. the nice thing is that he certainly knows how to get the job done.

So my main problems is knowing what action to go with.
After reading your suggestion, I tried checking out Savage's web site but didn't have much luck.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong since I didn't find any actions that are listed.
In their search box, I tried typing variables of:
"Actions"
"Magnum actions"
"Receivers"
"Bolt Actions for magnums rifles"

and I tried a couple other things on their site but just a LONG list of stuff showed up that had little to NOTHING to do with what I was searching for

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?

You can try these guys: https://jaoutdoors.com/product/savage-110-magnum-long-action/

That has the right bolt face diameter, but the action would need to be opened up and magazine geometry determined.

 

[ChrisG]

You can try these guys: https://jaoutdoors.com/product/savage-110-magnum-long-action/

That has the right bolt face diameter, but the action would need to be opened up and magazine geometry determined.

You also could try calling Savage custom shop as well. That number is on their website. Those people would have an answer for you

 

[Country-Folk]

You can try these guys: https://jaoutdoors.com/product/savage-110-magnum-long-action/

That has the right bolt face diameter, but the action would need to be opened up and magazine geometry determined.

Thanks for the heads-up

Will check out that link you sent me and will try to call Savage tomorrow.

Hope you gave a good evening

 

[Country-Folk]

McGowenBarrel.com provides a variety of pre-fit barrels for many different manufactures, and at what I would personally consider to be a reasonable cost.
The following link is to their barrels and services for barrels that are fitted to Savage actions:

https://mcgowenbarrel.com/savage-pre-fit-barrels/

https://mcgowenbarrel.com/shop/full-custom-barrel/

Also going to re-post the link down below that Chris was so cool to provide .... it got me a VERY nice head start on the magnum long action to use for my .416 Rem Mag project:

https://jaoutdoors.com/product/savage-110-magnum-long-action/

 

[Country-Folk]

No luck with calling Savage's technical service.

I just got off of the phone with Nick at Savage and he said due to legal reasons he's not able to tell me anything but to consult with a gunsmith.

So I'm now back to not knowing if the Savage 110 Magnum Long Action will be adequate for the .416 Rem Mag cartridge.

I did find in one of Savage's manuals for the 110 Magnum long Action which showed the highest cartridge for it was the .375 Ruger and the .375 H&H Mag. So I talked with Savage cust service who told me that was for the older version of their 110 Magnum Long Action and currently the .338 Lapua is the highest caliber that's been tested on their new latest version of it.

 

[ChrisG]

No luck with calling Savage's technical service.

I just got off of the phone with Nick at Savage and he said due to legal reasons he's not able to tell me anything but to consult with a gunsmith.

So I'm now back to not knowing if the Savage 110 Magnum Long Action will be adequate for the .416 Rem Mag cartridge.

I did find in one of Savage's manuals for the 110 Magnum long Action which showed the highest cartridge for it was the .375 Ruger and the .375 H&H Mag. So I talked with Savage cust service who told me that was for the older version of their 110 Magnum Long Action and currently the .338 Lapua is the highest caliber that's been tested on their new latest version of it.

A 416 Rem has a shorter COAL than a .338 Lapua and since the Lapua operates at the same pressure as a .416 Rem mag, and the base diameter of a .338 Lapua is larger (thereby creating more bolt thrust than a .416 Rem), on that level it seems the action should hold up fine and fit the cartridge

 

[Country-Folk]

A 416 Rem has a shorter COAL than a .338 Lapua and since the Lapua operates at the same pressure as a .416 Rem mag, and the base diameter of a .338 Lapua is larger (thereby creating more bolt thrust than a .416 Rem), on that level it seems the action should hold up fine and fit the cartridge

I definitely see what you mean for how the overall length of the Rem Mag is shorter than the 338 Lapua, and so that's a good thing

...but from what I personally been seeing across the web, the average foot-pounds of muzzle energy for the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge is 4770 and the .416 Remington Magnum cartridges has 5120

That's an increase of 350 foot-pounds when going from the 338 Lapua up to the 416 Remington.

I have NO idea for how that amount of increase effects the action of the Savage 110 Magnum Long Action ... I mean is that increase of 350 foot-pounds something that is:
1) nominal (nothing to be concerned with)
2) moderate (certainly needs to be taken into consideration)
3) a bit serious (therefore dont even consider the Savage 110 Mag Long Action)

 

[ChrisG]

I definitely see what you mean for how the overall length of the Rem Mag is shorter than the 338 Lapua, and so that's a good thing

...but from what I personally been seeing across the web, the average foot-pounds of muzzle energy for the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge is 4770 and the .416 Remington Magnum cartridges has 5120

That's an increase of 350 foot-pounds when going from the 338 Lapua up to the 416 Remington.

I have NO idea for how that amount of increase effects the action of the Savage 110 Magnum Long Action ... I mean is that increase of 350 foot-pounds something that is:
1) nominal (nothing to be concerned with)
2) moderate (certainly needs to be taken into consideration)
3) a bit serious (therefore dont even consider the Savage 110 Mag Long Action)

It would all be about the pressure on the bolt face. That is a simple calculation. Maximum PSI X Surface Area being pressed on. That gives you your bolt thrust. Its more compicated in real lift because the actual psi is based on the total thrust of the inside of the casing, but it would do for comparison purposes. For example, a 300 win mag at 64,000psi is for all practical purposes exerting nearly the same pressure on the bolt as a .458 win mag does. Even though it generates more energy than the
300. The enery has to go somewhere though, so it goes into your shoulder. Since force=mass x acceleration, if F is constant (in this case, the pressure x the surface area of the bolt head), then MxA has to fluctuate. Conversely, given a bigger bullet, if the pressure is constant, the force will be higher on the base of a bigger, heavier bullet, making it more efficient. Real life example:

Given 64,000psi as a benchmark

Area of a belted magnum case head = (pi x 0.266"^2) = 0.222 sq. in.


300 win mag
Bullet base area= pi x 0.0237" =0.0745 sq.in.

Bolt thrust= 64,000psi x 0.222 sq.in. = 14,208 lbs

Force on the base of the bullet at peak pressure = 0.0745sq.in. x 64,000psi=4,768 lbs

416 rem mag.
Bullet base area= pi x 0.1359= 0.427 sq.in.

Bolt thrust = 14,208 lbs (same case head so same thrust)

Force on the base of the bullet at peak pressure = 0.427sq.in. x 64,000psi = 27,324 lbs

So from the example above, you can exert a much larger force on the base of a larger diameter bullet given a fixed pressure, thereby givong you higher energies without increasing the thrust on the bolt of the rifle.

 

[Country-Folk]

I can see you're very smart and well I am a bit ignorant when it comes to those deep thoughtsies of the calculations

However I'm a jack of all trades when it comes to working with my hands ... 2 years of electrical trades, mechanic, carpentry, welding and fabrication, and restoring jukeboxes and classic coke machines

but sadly all I can think of after reading your reply is .... hmmmm I sure wish that you would of been sitting beside me in physics and algebra 2 .... I wouldn't have flunked them lol

So anyways
I definitely get the gist of what you're saying.
Seems to make good sense that the Savage bolt action would definitely handle the 416 Rem Mag, and so there shouldnt be any worries as long as I make sure to follow the specific guidelines for mating the barrel to the action, and for ensuring the proper fitment of the magazine compartment

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I recently built a 404 Jeffery on a 8mm Czech military 98 Mauser action. I'm no gunsmith and it was my first attempt building a rifle. I did everything but mount the barrel and open the bolt face. Bolt face was opened by a local machinist whose never done gun stuff before. I obtained Duane Weibe's booklet for building magnum on 98 Mauser. A big help. I ordered 416 Rem bottom metal from Swift-Blackburn and it required no modification for 404. Magnum follower from New England Custom Gun required very little modification. Model 70 style 3-position safety and bolt shroud from Parkwest (Myers sells better ones). Winchester Safari Express iron sights bought off ebay. Warne Quick Detach rings. Modifying the feeding rails and loading ramp was a bit tricky. Just takes time, patience, and following the proper sequence when trimming metal. I don't have a lathe or shaper and managed. Did the feeding rails with Dremel tool. I'm sure if I'd had a lathe I could have mounted the barrel. I watched the gunsmith mount a new barrel for my Springfield 03A3 and he was done in a half hour. Reaming the chamber in a new barrel apparently doesn't even require a lathe. The finished product turned out very nice. It cycles flawlessly and will put bullets in the same hole at 50 yards.

I might also suggest looking at either 1917 or P14 Enfield for a donor action. They come equipped with 3-position side safety and the ejection port is longer. You would need to cut into the locking ring of 98 Mauser just a bit for loaded 416 Rem to eject. Not a big deal but don't think it would be necessary with 1917. The big advantage to 98 Mauser build is the availability of aftermarket parts. Almost endless. I would suggest having a look at Weibe's booklet. $25 including postage. A great resource.

 

[Country-Folk]

I recently built a 404 Jeffery on a 8mm Czech military 98 Mauser action. I'm no gunsmith and it was my first attempt building a rifle. I did everything but mount the barrel and open the bolt face. Bolt face was opened by a local machinist whose never done gun stuff before. I obtained Duane Weibe's booklet for building magnum on 98 Mauser. A big help. I ordered 416 Rem bottom metal from Swift-Blackburn and it required no modification for 404. Magnum follower from New England Custom Gun required very little modification. Model 70 style 3-position safety and bolt shroud from Parkwest (Myers sells better ones). Winchester Safari Express iron sights bought off ebay. Warne Quick Detach rings. Modifying the feeding rails and loading ramp was a bit tricky. Just takes time, patience, and following the proper sequence when trimming metal. I don't have a lathe or shaper and managed. Did the feeding rails with Dremel tool. I'm sure if I'd had a lathe I could have mounted the barrel. I watched the gunsmith mount a new barrel for my Springfield 03A3 and he was done in a half hour. Reaming the chamber in a new barrel apparently doesn't even require a lathe. The finished product turned out very nice. It cycles flawlessly and will put bullets in the same hole at 50 yards.
View attachment 658080
I might also suggest looking at either 1917 or P14 Enfield for a donor action. They come equipped with 3-position side safety and the ejection port is longer. You would need to cut into the locking ring of 98 Mauser just a bit for loaded 416 Rem to eject. Not a big deal but don't think it would be necessary with 1917. The big advantage to 98 Mauser build is the availability of aftermarket parts. Almost endless. I would suggest having a look at Weibe's booklet. $25 including postage. A great resource.

Hi Ontario Hunter

Thanks for taking your time to provide that information.
Was very interesting to read and especially since you provided a bit of detailed information.

I actually love the Mauser K98 bolt action!
I have 2 sporters ... a .270 Winchester and a 30-06 Springfield on Mauser K98
Have never had any problems with the K98 action ... well other than I did something stupid one day by improperly inserting the bolt and once the bolt was in, it would not come back out! I ended up spending a few days of searching for the fix until finally coming across a guy on youtube who showed the trick of how to remove it.

but anyways.... I liked seeing that you had a pretty easy time with building your rifle. It certainly turned out looking nice!
As of right now I'm focused on using the Savage 110 Magnum Long Action since I can buy it new and there might be less particular fitting that needs done to make it work, but will keep your advice in mind if the Savage route hits a dead end