Need a new Bullet

[seth hollenbach]

I have always hand loaded north fork bullets for my plains game and dangerous game rifles. Apparently they are going out of business and will have to switch. Any recs for comparable bullets. I have hand loaded the solids, ss, and pp’s all with excellent performance.
Thanks

 

[Bullthrower338]

Buy enough to last you. Practice with cheap stuff and covet the NF’s.
Plenty of other great bullets out there. Swift A-Frames, peregrine and many others should fill the void.

 

[jacques smith]

Cody. Say it aint so
I just got to liking the cup point solids. Any idea were to find something comparable? Best to u and yours. Jacques

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have always hand loaded north fork bullets for my plains game and dangerous game rifles. Apparently they are going out of business and will have to switch. Any recs for comparable bullets. I have hand loaded the solids, ss, and pp’s all with excellent performance.
Thanks

Feeling your pain, not sure how many animals now my family and I have taken with the NF bonded cores. For softs I'll be making the change likely to Swift A-Frames. I've not used them but @AZ KJ did on our hunt in June. I was very impressed with the performance.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Cody. Say it aint so
I just got to liking the cup point solids. Any idea were to find something comparable? Best to u and yours. Jacques

The Woodleigh hydro solid seems to have similar impact as the CPS, but it does not expand like the CPS.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I’m still digesting the whole ‘expanding solid” thing, much like military intelligence to me. I understand the practical theory behind them but doesn’t a solid deformity alter bullet path much more substantially than if it holds a true form? Serious question, not being a smart ass this time. Educate me on the benefit besides a larger wound channel and I am assuming that there has to be an increase in tissue disruption.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Federal TBBC and rhino bullets are of similar construction as the north forks with the solid rear shank but availability is a problem with both. TBBC hasn’t been available for a while on midway and you can’t seem get rhino bullets to the U.S.

 

[fourfive8]

As I understand it, I think the theory behind both the Woodleigh Hydro solid and the NF CPS are similar. The same holds true, to an extent, for any non-expanding flat point solid. The small hollow point at the nose of the Hydro and the CPS creates a slightly larger high pressure gas cavitation envelope around the nose and front of the bullet. A little more with these hollow point designs and a little less with the plain flat point designs.

As the bullet flies through tissue it is stabilized by spinning, the tissue is just a much denser media than air. There is less spin-reducing-friction in the cavitation bubble formed, especially in wet tissue, so the bullet continues to maintain spin rate longer and is stabilized for a greater straight line distance through the tissue. Additionally, because both the FP and CP type noses create a slightly larger high pressure bubble around the nose and front part of the bullet, a slightly larger channel is created than would be the case with a non-expanding round nose or spire point. So, all in all, the results are a bullet that flies through the media/tissue in a straighter line which in turn increases depth of penetration, plus creating a slightly larger channel than would be the case for a round nose or spire point. Additionally, as the bullet slows during penetration, the center of gravity remains near center to slightly forward in the bullet thus aiding stability- as opposed to a non-deforming monolithic spire point which has by design a center of gravity slightly to the rear of the bullet... a somewhat unstable form as friction reduces the spin rate during penetration.

One on left is TSX from buffalo. Two on right are NF CPS from buffalo. An unfired bullet is included with each type for comparison. 416 Rem- impact vel approx 2250 fps.

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

GS Custom bullets makes a solid that works on the same basis as the NF Cup point Solid. I think the GS actually predates the NF version. They have 2 production plants - one in South Africa and one in the US .

 

[Red Leg]

I think the theory behind both the Woodleigh Hydro solid and the NF CPS are similar. The same holds true, to an extent, for any non-expanding flat point solid. The small hollow point at the nose creates a slightly larger high pressure gas cavitation envelope around the nose and front of the bullet. A little more with the hollow point and a little less with the plain flat point.

As the bullet flies through tissue it is stabilized by spinning, just a much denser media than air. There is less resistance in the cavitation bubble formed, especially in wet tissue, so the bullet continues to maintain spin rate longer and is stabilized for a greater distance through the tissue. Additionally, because both the FP and CP type noses create a slightly larger high pressure bubble around the nose and front part of the bullet, a slightly larger channel is created than would be the case with a non-expanding round nose or spire point. So, all in all, the results are a bullet that flies though the media/tissue in a straighter line which in turn increases depth of penetration, plus creating a slightly larger channel than would be the case for a round nose or spire point. Additionally, as the bullet slows during penetration, the center of gravity remains near center to slightly forward in the bullet thus aiding stability- as opposed to a monolithic spire point which has by design a center of gravity slightly to the rear of the bullet... a somewhat unstable form as friction reduces the spin rate during penetration.

Perfect explanation. Neither the Hydro or North Fork "expand". They are solids, but both do create a larger wound channel than a typical solid. The Hydro is every bit as effective as its NF counterpart. Moreover, I much prefer both the Swift A-Frame and the TSX family to the NF soft point.

 

[fourfive8]

GS Custom bullets makes a solid that works on the same basis as the NF Cup point Solid. I think the GS actually predates the NF version. They have 2 production plants - one in South Africa and one in the US .

Yes! GS Custom makes an excellent FP Solid.

Slug on left is poacher's bullet from elephant. Middle bullet is GS FPS from elephant skull. Bullet on right is unfired GS FPS.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Neither the Hydro or North Fork "expand".

That's not exactly true of the NF CPS. It does expand albeit less so than a typical soft point or their bonded cores. The front end does end up wider than the diameter of the shank of the bullet which in turn reduces the penetration.

I'm curious as to why you prefer the A-Frame/TSX to the NF soft point? I've used two of the three and witnessed the performance of the A-Frame in June this year. I've nothing bad to say about the terminal performance of any of the three, really only positive. I have seen evidence of TSX's not opening on the medium and small bores and one reason I prefer the NF and A-Frame.

@Bullthrower338, I spoke to the gents at NF about the CPS a few years back in Dallas. The CPS was developed to create the larger wound channel as has been discussed. It came at the cost of penetration. The question however was how much penetration was lost and could that be afforded over their normal solid. The answer generally was yes. The penetration of the solid with the flat meplat was so good that it was essentially too good. Like complete penetration with an exit from north to south on an elephant good. If you're getting that much penetration, you could almost view it as too much....almost.

Now you may still want that for an elephant, but perhaps not needed on a buffalo. So the CPS was born. It indeed penetrates less than the regular solid, but still has great penetration but now with a larger wound channel.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Thanks guys, great thread!

 

[Red Leg]

That's not exactly true of the NF CPS. It does expand albeit less so than a typical soft point or their bonded cores. The front end does end up wider than the diameter of the shank of the bullet which in turn reduces the penetration.

I'm curious as to why you prefer the A-Frame/TSX to the NF soft point? I've used two of the three and witnessed the performance of the A-Frame in June this year. I've nothing bad to say about the terminal performance of any of the three, really only positive. I have seen evidence of TSX's not opening on the medium and small bores and one reason I prefer the NF and A-Frame.

@Bullthrower338, I spoke to the gents at NF about the CPS a few years back in Dallas. The CPS was developed to create the larger wound channel as has been discussed. It came at the cost of penetration. The question however was how much penetration was lost and could that be afforded over their normal solid. The answer generally was yes. The penetration of the solid with the flat meplat was so good that it was essentially too good. Like complete penetration with an exit from north to south on an elephant good. If you're getting that much penetration, you could almost view it as too much....almost.

Now you may still want that for an elephant, but perhaps not needed on a buffalo. So the CPS was born. It indeed penetrates less than the regular solid, but still has great penetration but now with a larger wound channel.

That is news to me. Appreciate fourfive8's photos. And I am not sure I like that in a solid. You would think any non perfect expansion might cause a deviation in the bullet path. No big thing on most SP applications, but problematic on a frontal brain shot on an elephant. Anyway the Hydro does not expand, drives very deep, and causes an observably larger wound channel than a typical solid.

My concern with Northfork SPs is not from strict analysis and experimentation, but purely from side-by-side comparison during a hunt with my son in the Zambezi Delta a few years ago. I was using TSX's and he was using Northfork SP's - both 300 gr from .375's. He is a superb shot and his Sauer loves the Northfork. Without going into the whole story, he made what seemed to be a perfect shot on his bull that spun and anchored him still standing quartering away. Four angled follow-ups at maybe forty yards had no effect. He eventually spun around to charge and a salvo from my son and both PH's put the animal down. On gutting we found none of the follow-up rear quartering shots reached the heart-lung area.

On waterbuck and even reedbuck he had no exit wounds from the Northforks. Animals were quite dead, but that isn't a lot of penetration. Only TSX that I recovered on the hunt was my buffalo.

I have never had a Swift A-Frame or TSX fail to reach what mattered from any angle on anything. As I say, hardly scientific experimentation, but I have concerns.

 

[Edge]

375 Woodleigh Hydro from bull elephant skull, some deformation/expansion.

 

[crs]

Edge,
Your Hydro looks good - a lot like a brass .458 Punch bullet used on an ele frontal brain shot from my 1886 45-90. Only the Punch shot through the head and into the ele body- had to be cut out. So did a 450 grain .458 NF FPS.

I wonder if any other folks have experience with the Punch bullet?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

That is news to me. Appreciate fourfive8's photos. And I am not sure I like that in a solid. You would think any non perfect expansion might cause a deviation in the bullet path. No big thing on most SP applications, but problematic on a frontal brain shot on an elephant. Anyway the Hydro does not expand, drives very deep, and causes an observably larger wound channel than a typical solid.

My concern with Northfork SPs is not from strict analysis and experimentation, but purely from side-by-side comparison during a hunt with my son in the Zambezi Delta a few years ago. I was using TSX's and he was using Northfork SP's - both 300 gr from .375's. He is a superb shot and his Sauer loves the Northfork. Without going into the whole story, he made what seemed to be a perfect shot on his bull that spun and anchored him still standing quartering away. Four angled follow-ups at maybe forty yards had no effect. He eventually spun around to charge and a salvo from my son and both PH's put the animal down. On gutting we found none of the follow-up rear quartering shots reached the heart-lung area.

On waterbuck and even reedbuck he had no exit wounds from the Northforks. Animals were quite dead, but that isn't a lot of penetration. Only TSX that I recovered on the hunt was my buffalo.

I have never had a Swift A-Frame or TSX fail to reach what mattered from any angle on anything. As I say, hardly scientific experimentation, but I have concerns.

Your son's experience with buffalo is very surprising to me. Penetration with the regular bonded cores, not the PP (PowerPoint which expands faster) has never been a problem for me or those I've hunted with. If it was the PP bullet, I could see that happening. But your experience is what it is.

Not getting an exit wound however has been quite common. I believe this due to the mushroom of the bullet staying in tact and making it difficult to punch a hole in the hide....like trying to push you palm in sand versus poking your fingers into sand. I'd expect and have seen the same with the A-Frames now, same issue. The TSX on the other hand as you know has an X pattern after impact and I believe those "propellers" cut through the hide on exit.

Still, with NF closing, I'll be restarting my load developments using A-Frames.

 

[fourfive8]

For some reason the pics of the GS Custom FPS posted earlier didn't load properly.

Left is an iron slug from poacher's muzzleloader recovered from elephant. Center is GS FPS recovered from skull of elephant. Right is unfired GS FPS.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I would recommend Swift A frame soft points for thin skinned stuff.
If Winchester Silvertips were still available , l would recommend them in a heartbeat. Sadly , they are not available in .375 HH Magnum anymore
For the big Stuff , cutting edge monolithic meplat solids or Woodleigh FMJ Round nose "solids "

 

[Desert Dog]

The TSX totally eliminated the need for me to load softs and solids separately. For me, one bullet does it all (penetrates deep, 100% weight retention, but still expands). The TSX is cheap, highly available, easy to load, and has decades of data and proof backing it up. You won't have to worry about switching loads again.