Mounting a scope on a single bridge Mauser .416 Rigby

[cem rona ergin]

Hi everyone,
I have done my first safari last year in SA and I am hooked, and I hope to visit Africa every year for as long as my health and my wealth allows-)after my return Istanbul I decided to purchase a rifle worthy of big game hunting in Africa and I was lucky enough to find this beauty in Istanbul,Turkey . I need your help on how to mount a scope without changing the safety lever.
I am also not sure if I want to mount a scope on this and if I do how to do it and what will be the best scope to mount.
Thank you very much in advance for your precious comments.
I also would like to thank Serapa Safaris crew here especially Jacques for making my dreams come true.

 

[Jarrod Todd]

What a beauty!! Can't offer you sound advice, but thanks for showing!

 

[Travis2282]

What a beautiful rifle!

 

[Red Leg]

First of all, it is absolutely possible to scope that rifle. And doing so, will make it a far more useful as a general purpose rifle for Africa. The case colored receiver will present a bit of an aesthetic challenge. And you will no doubt hear from some who will say such a rifle was intended to be used only with open sights. However, I have a detachable scopes on all my dangerous game capable rifles. At my age, 64, open sights are problematic at anything beyond 70 meters or so. A scope allows me to take full advantage of the ballistic capability of the rifle in question. Mounting that scope on detachable mounts allows me to quickly dismount it if we need to do a follow-up where some large angry beast may try to stomp us.

So back to the aesthetic. The easiest (and necessary fix) is the safety. Without addressing that tradional wing rotation, you would have to mount a scope very, very high. This is awkward on a normal rifle, and would be extremely uncomfortable on a hard recoiling caliber such as the .416. A number of companies make a replacement lever which could be polished and case colored to match the rifle. Doug Turnbull could do the case color work in this country. I am sure several German gunmakers can do similar work. I am less sure what you would find in Russia.

With regard to scope mounts, in Europe, the EAW mounts are common and would work on your rifle. Again, someone like Turnbull, would be able to match the rifle case coloring on your scope mounts. I have seen Talley mounts which he has done that are extraordinary. Again, I am sure a good German gunmaker could accomplish that work for you.

None of this would be inexpensive, but you already have a very high quality rifle. If you want it to be something with which you can regularly hunt, not simply admire, or save only for close quarters engagement with dangerous game, then I would indeed scope it. And I would do it in consultation with a first quality gunmaker (perhaps a note or call to Hartmann & Weiss info@hartmannandweiss.com would be the place to start) who can preserve the aesthetic qualities of what is a truly beautiful weapon.

 

[bassasdaindia]

I waited for someone to post first before commenting , although I cant see the photos properly , I cant see if it is possible to mount a scope ?

beautiful rifle - that's for sure !

 

[rookhawk]

@Red Leg is correct that it is possible.

A couple of roadblocks you must overcome:

1.) To be proper, you will need to either replace the safety shroud or modify the flag safety to a side swing safety. Easiest to replace it.

2.) The EAW claw mounts are required because you'll need a barrel saddle to affix the front claw. The rear claw will be inlet into the rear bridge as is normal. There are very few individuals in the world that will Color Case EAW mounts. The steel allegedly does not react well to that treatment. In the USA, the most knowledgable EAW installer (and our national importer) is Mark at New England Custom Gun. They will not color case the mounts. (I tried this month)

The job to get this done properly is going to be about a $3000-$4000 job and indeed, Hartmann and Weiss are the most qualified to do the work of about anyone globally.

 

[Peter Larsson]

Leave it home and buy an old Brno to bring to SA!!!
My guncase looked like hell after the last trip there!
A wonder that anything inside was in one piece!

 

[rookhawk]

Leave it home and buy an old Brno to bring to SA!!!
My guncase looked like hell after the last trip there!
A wonder that anything inside was in one piece!

That's truly terrible advice in my opinion.

The "how" of how you hunt is as important as the why, the where, with who, how much, etc.

Having the proper weapon, the most challenging, most personal or most hand made weapon you can is a significant part of the maturity of the hunter seeking that apex hunting experience. I'm reminded of the "5 phases of a hunter" that they beat into your head in any Internationally Recognized Hunter Safety Course. Remember those? The immature ones like "Shooter Stage", "Limit Out Stage", "Trophy Seeker Stage". The latter two? "Method Stage" (where the means of harvest mean a lot) and the "Sportsman's Stage" (appreciation for the nuance of the total experience).

 

[Red Leg]

@Red Leg is correct that it is possible.

A couple of roadblocks you must overcome:

1.) To be proper, you will need to either replace the safety shroud or modify the flag safety to a side swing safety. Easiest to replace it.

2.) The EAW claw mounts are required because you'll need a barrel saddle to affix the front claw. The rear claw will be inlet into the rear bridge as is normal. There are very few individuals in the world that will Color Case EAW mounts. The steel allegedly does not react well to that treatment. In the USA, the most knowledgable EAW installer (and our national importer) is Mark at New England Custom Gun. They will not color case the mounts. (I tried this month)

The job to get this done properly is going to be about a $3000-$4000 job and indeed, Hartmann and Weiss are the most qualified to do the work of about anyone globally.

Rook is absolutely correct that claws are indeed also an option. Though, I was actually referring to their pivot mount. It is extremely strong, and the Teuton's have been fitting them to Mauser actions of one type or another for a very long time. Talley's would also work, and as I noted, I have seen them case colored beautifully. While not period, they certainly have the look, and are, of course, extremely practical.

 

[Peter Larsson]

Had the same discussion with my friend that is going to SA with me in April.
He have the same idea as you about guns,but I think his interest of hunting
comes by his interest in guns.
To me it isn't the gun that's matter but the hunt it selves.
Next time I will borrow a gun on place.

 

[rookhawk]

@Red Leg are we potentially overthinking this? Is it possible there is a no gunsmithing needed german claw mount for the Magnum Mauser action? I know I've seen them for the commercial action FN mauser before. Makes a $2500 job a $300 job.

Actually, i'm not sure it will work and i question the Talley or Pivot without much customization. I'm thinking as I type so apologies for a bizarre reply.

Take a close look at the single square bridge photos. The first thing that must happen is drill/tap which hasn't occurred yet. There is not enough baring surface on the rear bridge for a rear mount (common problem, my .318 had same situation). The remedy is they mill the stripper clip port of the rear bridge flat to create a longer baring surface for the rear mount. So now you've got a rear mount on the gun because you've made a flat area. But what front mount can you use? Talley? Pivot? I think not. The height of the rear and front bridge are different and the difference must be made up with saddles and different front and rear ring heights.

This brings us back to the german claw mount, totally custom, to satisfy this solution. After all the expense no one would go less than the full measure on a $5000 endeavor so we're talking about an ultra-low mount, a straight tube scope, a new safety shroud in Mod-70 style, color case hardening and engraving. It is conceivable to spend more on the mounts, gunsmithing, safety shroud, case hardening, engraving and optic than the cost of the whole gun.

Thoughts?

 

[sierraone]

Great thread/conversation. Am understanding much, but learning much more!!!

 

[Red Leg]

Almost anything requiring a top mount can be made to fit using bar stock and Talley rings. I have a couple of Mausers where the base (bar stock) was tailored to fit cleanly against the stripper clip with room for two screws. The rest is just a matter of accurate verticle measurement. I am pretty sure pivot mount bases already exist for those actions. The real challenge may be the case coloring. Turnbull has mastered tempering re hardened steel. Not sure who else might do it in Europe.

 

[Shootist43]

What a beautiful rifle. Unless you are able to fine someone that can do proper justice to it while installing any type of scope mounts I'd leave it alone. If future hunts require a scoped rifle, they can be had for $1,000 to $2,000 US. I have several "Safe Queens" that may never see the field but none of them look as good as your rifle.

 

[Shootist43]

Does Mauser have a Custom Shop?? If so they could be contacted for their opinion and perhaps mount a scope in a manor befitting that gorgeous rifle.

 

[spike.t]

hi welcome aboard and nice rifle . here is jacques last night at the AH drinks party. not great quality but camera on phone not too brilliant.....

 

[fiocchi]

Firstly, don't scope a rifle built with such care and design not to be...buy one meant to be scoped.

Secondly, if going to be scoped, get a top class smith to fit H&H side mounts very low to work with your stock most likely having a large drop.

Third, get that Smith to fit either a secondary greener side safety or a tang safety so you can leave the original flag on live and not have to remove it. If not, have a 2 pos side safety fitted and case hardened to match on the bolt shroud

 

[sierraone]

Firstly, don't scope a rifle built with such care and design not to be...buy one meant to be scoped.

Secondly, if going to be scoped, get a top class smith to fit H&H side mounts very low to work with your stock most likely having a large drop.

Third, get that Smith to fit either a secondary greener side safety or a tang safety so you can leave the original flag on live and not have to remove it. If not, have a 2 pos side safety fitted and case hardened to match on the bolt shroud

Even though I have the greatest respect for some of the previous posters knowledge and suggestions on how to mount a scope on a single square bridge Mauser action. It is my understanding that a SSB was designed for not mounting a scope. This brings me to Fiocchi's post. I get it that if you have enough money and time, top level gunsmiths can probably mount any scope on any rifle, regardless of the original design. If you have the means to acquire a rifle such as is the subject of this thread, leave it be and buy a Winchester or CZ for $1000 or $1200 to hunt with or if they don't meet your standards, a new DSB Mauser 98 or DSB Rigby Big Game can be had for $14000-$15000. The rifle pictured above is a piece of art. The owner should think long and hard about mounting any scope on it. IMO.

 

[cem rona ergin]

guys ..thank you all for your comments .
what I did was I contacted Herr Wiethaup and asked to come up with a solution .. he promised to come up with one after the hunt show in Germany .
as soon as he comes up with a solution I will post it immediately .
scope mounted or not this baby is going to Africa this year
I already ordered the pelican storm gun case.
I have to admit I still have mixed thoughts about getting work done on this rifle but let's see what kind of solution Herr Wiethaup comes up with.
Any recommendations on scopes?

 

[Red Leg]

guys ..thank you all for your comments .
what I did was I contacted Herr Wiethaup and asked to come up with a solution .. he promised to come up with one after the hunt show in Germany .
as soon as he comes up with a solution I will post it immediately .
scope mounted or not this baby is going to Africa this year
I already ordered the pelican storm gun case.
I have to admit I still have mixed thoughts about getting work done on this rifle but let's see what kind of solution Herr Wiethaup comes up with.
Any recommendations on scopes?

German or Austrian