Load recommendations for 416 Rem Mag?

[Matt_WY]

Just received a new 416 rem from AHR. Planning to run 400 gr Barnes TSX and Solids, though I also have some 400 gr A-frames to try out.

Any recommendations on powders that do well in 416s? I played pick-a-powder from the Barnes data today and barring any other suggestions I may just try RL-15.

Thanks!

 

[fourfive8]

I spent a lot of time and effort on mine and found Varget was hard to beat. No erratic performance and not temperature sensitive. Some other powders may push various bullets faster but I easily reached my 400 gr bullet goal of 2350 fps shooting Swift A Frames, North Fork Cup Point Solids and Barnes TSXs with zero pressure signs, excellent accuracy and very low velocity SDs.

 

[hgr2]

My first bullet of choice in 416 Remington mag was the 400gr TSX when I got my M70SE.

Got a good supply of Hornedy brass and had a couple popular listed powders already on the shelf.


The intent was to use a temperature stable powder, first choice was Varget then H4895. With a full charge of Varget, sometimes the powder was so compressed that it would make the bullet creep out of the case making it too long to fit the magazine, even with a heavy crimp from a Lee crimp die. If I recall correctly some people had never had a problem with this combination. I posted about it here(somewhere) a few years back. I was uncomfortable with the possibility of a loaded round locking up in the mag. So, I changed to the 400gr Swift A-frame, the shorter lead based bullet let me comfortably use my powder of choice and it provided good accuracy approaching 2400FPS. Used that bullet for my first buffalo.


I have since loaded some 400gr TSX using TAC, a relatively slow ball powder with very good results.

 

[mdwest]

H4895 is my powder of choice for my 416... gives me good velocity and accuracy

 

[Dr Ray]

Try AR2209 or its renamed powder h4350
Lower pressures for sane velocity

 

[Dr Ray]

Obviously meant same velocity
Sorry my fat thumb and iPhone

 

[Dirtdart]

I have had really good luck with Norma 203B in my .416 Remington with Swifts, Woodleighs, and some Barnes solids. RE15 and 203B are very similar. If you are ordering new cans then go with the Norma. You are more likely to find Alliant on the shelf in one of the local shops. If you are close to Glenrock WY they used to have a component shop with the best prices around.

 

[Dirtdart]

I would like to add that I am pleased with accurate rounds with low spreads in velocity achieving 2150FPS for 450gr bullets and 2250FPS with 400gr bullets in this cartridge. I wouldn't know if Norma 203B would be the best choice if you were trying to milk all the velocity possible with the .416 Remington?

 

[fourfive8]

Interesting the issue of compressed load with Varget. I was able to easily get 2400 fps with most all 400 gr bullets and Varget with well less than 100% load density. Could be difference in brass, resizing or chamber dimensions? For hunting loads, no matter the cartridge, I avoid any compressed loads, or slow burn ball powder loads or especially compressed slow burn ball powder loads. And for heavy recoilers like the 416s, 450s, etc. I always crimp into a groove using the Lee FCD.

 

[hgr2]

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/400gr-tsx-and-varget-in-416-rm.11493/#post-125591

This is the thread referenced above

 

[Matt_WY]

Thanks for the replies guys! I have both varget and h4895 on the shelf, so I'll start with those.

 

[bruce moulds]

there is no safety problem with compressing powder if you work up to it, even ball powder.
the main issue is that bullets can be pushed back out of the case, increasing the cartridge overall length in relation to magazine and/or throat length.
this can in part be overcome by leaving the round in the seating die in the press while you weigh the next charge.
serious compression might also bulge the case.
homework will establish how these issues can be dealt with.
one advantage of compressed charges is that bullets cannot be forced further into cases by recoil, thus mitigating the need to crimp, which will destroy brass.
the other advantage is that very low velocity differences come from compression of powder.
the slower burning the powder, and the longer the projectile (barnes), the higher the probability of needing to compress.
the slower the powder, for the same velocity there is less pressure.
many urban myths surround powder, and one of them is compression.
in fact a compressed load of slow powder might well have less pressure than a loose charge of faster powder, while giving higher velocity.
bruce.

 

[lwaters]

I use to load my 270 with 62 gr. of H-4831. I had to tap the case on the bench to get it all in. Also had to use Winchester cases. Never had any problems with that load.

 

[TOBY458]

Varget works very well for me.

 

[fourfive8]

Winchester became well aware of problems associated with compressed ball powder loads in their 458 WM ammo in their attempt to have the 458 WM perform up to predetermined, market driven minimum velocity standards. A few cycles of ammo into high temperatures over some time and presto- congealed/caked powder and very unreliable ammo performance.

 

[bruce moulds]

458,
I believe there were problems with early ball powders.
we also heard stories about 223 ammo causing ar15 rifles to jam in Vietnam due to ball powder.
I have loaded 270 win with win 785 powder up to the top of the neck, compressing it with the bullet to fit the magazine with no problems in hot and cold.
this powder might be discontinued now.
I have unloaded ammo in different calibres from 223 up to 9.3 mm with compressed powder, and never seen congealed powder.
sometimes you need to loosen it a little first to get it to pour out, but it always looks the same as new.
compression is ok if you do your homework.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

Of course, the original 458 WM Win (Olin?) factory ball powder that caused the problems was 50-60s vintage. But with all the superior extruded powders available today, there shouldn't be any need to compress any load especially slow-for-application ball powders. I chose long ago no need to tempt fate if not necessary.

And at the opposite end of environmental conditions scale- kind of ironic that in extreme cold conditions, compressed ball powder loads can also have problems. Like some particularly popular heavy, compressed ball powder loads in the 44 Mag handgun that experience delayed ignition or fail to fire issues.

 

[bruce moulds]

there is no point in compressing if you don't need to, just for the sake of it.
however, there are cases where a compressed slower powder will give higher velocity at lower pressure then the next fastest one available.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

Back to the 416 RM. My target velocity with my 400 gr hunting bullets including- A Frames, TSXs and NF Solids was 2350. My rifle a standard factory Win 70 bolt gun. I tested and shot quite a few combinations prepping for my first DG hunt several years ago. I settled on 73.5 gr Varget, Win LR Mag primers, R-P brass and all bullets crimped in with a Lee FCD. That load is well under 100 % load density. Ave vel over at least three reps of 5 rounds each on different days was 2347 fps with an ave standard deviation of 5.4 fps. No pressure signs and excellent accuracy. See no reason to change (and haven't changed) that load in that gun for any use from PG to DG.

I was able to easily reach and exceed 2400 fps with the 400 gr bullets without compressing loads using two or three different popular powders in the general Varget burn rate range. Even at the 2400 to 2450 fps level the loads were not compressed and there were no pressure signs. Now seems to me... there is certainly alot of margin for error with zero worries and absolute confidence about sticky bolts and pressure spikes or other such mishaps with the 2350 fps load operating well under max operating pressure for the round!! Also, the effectiveness is proven times over- from impala to Cape buffalo and many in between.

 

[DLSJR]

My .416 is a Hoffman, which is similar to the Remington, though with the shoulder about 1/8” further forward and with a bit more powder capacity. Ive had great luck with RL15. I was shooting 81 grains (again, in my HOFFMAN, so it probably is too much for the Remington) of RL15, pushing 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaws and their solids, at 2,510 FPS. It is a fantastic buffalo round.