Large chamber / short throat

[45-70guy]

I’m back on another project, this one an old 1903 Springfield higher number chambered in 35 whelen. My favorite!
I found this as an old timer a state away had built this and supposedly used it 5+ years ago but is now selling his collection.
So anyways I grabbed this and started taking measurements etc… to get it ready for some load development.
Now first thing was head space gauges, these gauges I have are new and I have used them to test out my other 6 whelens, 3 custom jobs and 3 factory.
All are within spec which I know doesn’t mean Jack if your sizing your brass correctly but just did it for a reference against all other rifles.
So this rifle closes on a field gauge, it’s a stripped bolt.
2 peices of scotch tape on the field gauge is where it feels resistance.
Next I tried a factory 200g load to check the throat, won’t close the bolt.
I’m going to pull the OAL gauge out again today and see if I can get an average across each of these bullets in this throat compared to my others.

My question is after all this rambling, starting low on charge weight and seating at .030” off the lands to start will this be more of a pain than it’s worth?
Or do I have the throat reamed out slightly to allow for longer seating depths which would be Sammi range and also close up the headspace?
Brass for this rifle will only be used in this rifle.
I’m curious to any and all information pertaining to this as I have not come across “old” 35 whelens that were from the wildcat era which can obviously be different

 

[fourfive8]

Checking headspace and setting sizing die accordingly is correct first step with any newly acquired rifle. Next step is checking chamber length and keeping brass trimmed to about 010” shorter than chamber length.

Bullet seating to about .030” off the lands is a good place to be for hunting ammo.

The jam length will be different for any particular bullet in a particular chamber and is not directly related to grain weight of bullet.

 

[45-70guy]

Ok thank you for that, I also just took measurements of 3 other whelens just to get a comparison on this throat length, which seems to be the reason this particular rifle cant chamber factory ammo.

For reference: all compared to the measurements on this one in discussion
-1903 chambered to 35 whelen ( different than rifle mentioned In post )
0.300” longer throat

-factory m77 Ruger 35 whelen
0.276” longer throat

-factory rem 700 35 whelen
0.260” longer throat
( this rifle having the shortest of the bunch but still quiet a bit longer

So I guess my next question is this:
Is 0.250”-0.300” of a shorter throat something to think about ? My main concern with this is the fact I need to loose case space I order to physically fit a 225g or 250g bullet, which in turn also eats up case capacity.

These averages were all relative to each bullet used to test, I used the exact bullet for each rifle and used the following to get these numbers:
Hornady 250g RN
Northfork 225g ss
Barnes 225 Tsx
Sierra GK 225g
Speer 250g Hot - Cor

 

[USMA84DAB]

Only two in my .35 WAI stable - however, I also have had trouble with the curvature of the projo fitting into the throat. All other aspects of the cartridge are fine (the cartridge fits in the case gauge, but when I go to chamber the smaller projos (200 gr) the curvature of the bullet doesn't fit in the throat, so the bolt won't close. I hand turned a throat reamer to remedy the situation. The 2nd rifle is still waiting on re-welding the bolt handle, as I REALLY stuck it running a round into the chamber. Just one more rifle project/repair!

 

[ZG47]

Nothing new here. A New Zealand hunter and author called Keith Severinsen had to borrow some .30-06 ammo whilst hunting in South Africa. It was Sako factory ammo with Hammerhead bullets and the first round would not chamber due to the bullet profile. I cannot remember the projectile weight and the book is currently buried within several piles that I will reshelve tomorrow.
Thank you for clearly relating your story. It may help younger/newer shooters to engage their brains before heading into the field. Have a good year.

 

[45-70guy]

Thanks for the sight guys, I do enjoy a new challenge here and there just to keep the spark alive during the winter.
Hoping to finalize this with an old original redfeild 2-7 scope but I’ll need to send that out as the glass is starting to fog over and after 4x the clarity goes to crap.
So for now I have a 20mm 1-4x leupold I found In the archives

 

[fourfive8]

Ok thank you for that, I also just took measurements of 3 other whelens just to get a comparison on this throat length, which seems to be the reason this particular rifle cant chamber factory ammo.

For reference: all compared to the measurements on this one in discussion
-1903 chambered to 35 whelen ( different than rifle mentioned In post )
0.300” longer throat

-factory m77 Ruger 35 whelen
0.276” longer throat

-factory rem 700 35 whelen
0.260” longer throat
( this rifle having the shortest of the bunch but still quiet a bit longer

So I guess my next question is this:
Is 0.250”-0.300” of a shorter throat something to think about ? My main concern with this is the fact I need to loose case space I order to physically fit a 225g or 250g bullet, which in turn also eats up case capacity.

These averages were all relative to each bullet used to test, I used the exact bullet for each rifle and used the following to get these numbers:
Hornady 250g RN
Northfork 225g ss
Barnes 225 Tsx
Sierra GK 225g
Speer 250g Hot - Cor

In some actions, the magazine length can determine chamber specs that limit cartridge OAL. If that Whelen rifle jams standard 225 and 250 grain factory loaded ammo bullets into the lands, it may indeed have an unusually short throat. Simple matter for a gunsmith to lengthen the throat if he has a compatible throat reamer. Matter of fact, with the correct throat reamer and a simple Tee handle, it is within the capability of most reasonably competent DIYers.

If you can determine your action and magazine can reliably cycle longer OAL cartridges, no reason to have to restrict load/bullet options, especially factory loaded ammo, with an overly short throat. Plenty of YouTube tutorials for DIY chambering. I did the exact same thing to one of my Win 70 338-06s a few years ago. I lengthened the magazine, reset bolt stop and ejector and lengthened the throat a tad… all DIY. That 338-06 has been my go-to PG rifle since

 

[BigKev15]

Just for the record I currently shoot both 600 and 1,000 tard benchrest. Unfortunately none of the Sammi speed chambers are throated long enough for me to seat the bullets long (single feed one at a time) where I want them. To resolve that I choose the exact bullet that I'm planning on competing with and load one to the length that I want. This cased bullet is epoxied in place. I then have my gunsmith use a throating reamer to open up the throat to match what I've given him. The only real problem is that your rifles throat is now set up for that particular case and bullet combination. I've shot the same bullets made by the same bullet manufacturer (Vapor Trail) for the past 10 years. Hope this helps.

 

[45-70guy]

Thanks guys that does help, I do know my action ( 1903 Springfield) can indeed take a longer coal as I have 3 others which are all throated to 0.300” longer.
I took a chamber cast this morning after checking the trapline and the case dimensions are spot on, but it looks as my rifling starts right at the mouth of the case and there’s not much of any free bore? What do you guys think?
I’ll try to attach photo here