Is it legal to leave a gun in Africa with PH

[Dakota Hunter]

I was wondering since it’s such a hassle to travel with firearms to Africa is it possible/legal to leave a personal firearm in Africa with the PH for your use when you are there ?

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Legal no...but it has been done.

HH

 

[Mopani]

It‘s not legal. Don‘t do it.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Next question that has been asked at least a couple of times.... Importing ammo without a firearm?. And getting past all the questions from SAPS without acknowledging you illegally imported a weapon.

 

[sureshot375]

No, the PH would have to file paperwork to permanently import the firearm as if her were taking over ownership. Also, you may have to do something on your side to permanently export the firearm. It is really not a practical solution.

Do not just leave your gun there without doing the paperwork.

 

[MarkB]

For export paperwork that should depend on departure country. I have heard of acquaintances doing paperwork to take and leave a rifle in SA, they hunt multiple times annually and use "their" gun when there. They do not take ammo, but do have ammo when they arrive, not sure where it comes from. On Canadian paperwork for temp hunting export there is a box for permanent export. Never clicked so not sure of next process.

I also know person who took over a list of gun related items, scopes, rangefinders, trail cams and left for outfitter, being Canadian this is a huge risk, NOT anything I would ever do.

With planning, paperwork and dollars I am sure there is a possible and legal way to complete.

MB

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

You can buy almost any rifle in South Africa. So take your trusted PH shopping with you and buy him what you really want so it is there ready for you every time you come over.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

You can buy almost any rifle in South Africa. So take your trusted PH shopping with you and buy him what you really want so it is there ready for you every time you come over.

I have done this with a shotgun so I did not have to take one each trip

 

[freefall]

I left a 16 ga Stevens 311 with my brother in IA to hunt pheasant with, should I find myself there in pheasant season.
But to me, part of the joy of owning a firearm is to take it out and shoot/clean/handle it and remember game I have taken with it and the people I did it with. I can not imagine leaving the rifle I used to take a cape buffalo (should I ever) half the world away from me.

 

[mark-hunter]

From the European perspective, its not legal.

 

[One Day...]

I was wondering since it’s such a hassle to travel with firearms to Africa is it possible/legal to leave a personal firearm in Africa with the PH for your use when you are there ?

Legally, i.e. using the SAPS 520 to "sell" the rifle to the PH
Yes, it is legally doable, but the purchase by the PH must be approved by SAPS (South Africa Police Services) and the process takes months ahead of time. As to the legal permanent exportation process in the country of departure, it varies with different countries.

In so many words, it is so complicated that very few private people do it, although some US or European gun dealers have been known to legally export individual rifles to South African dealers who in turn transfer them to South African residents upon SAPS (South Africa Police Services) approval.

In this case your PH legally owns the rifle and loans it to you when you come. This implies that you will always hunt in South Africa and always hunt with the same PH, which may or may not be a realistic prospect................................

As to the risk of the PH being burglarized, or the rifle being confiscated, or the PH dying natural or accidental death, or your relationship with the PH souring, or, or, etc. it all on you. In most cases you will never see the rifle again.......................................

Legally - sort of - by funding your PH to purchase locally a rifle that he will loan you
There is no law preventing you from gifting money to your PH who then purchases a rifle/shotgun in his own name and loans it to you, but you are not the legal owner of the weapon and your PH's purchase must be approved by SAPS, which also takes months.

Again, in this case your PH legally owns the rifle and loans it to you when you come, and this again implies that you will always hunt in South Africa and always hunt with the same PH, and that you assume all the risks of the PH owning the rifle.

Illegally, by sneaking out of country without the rifle
The paragraph header says it all (illegally). Not only the answer is no, it is not legal to leave a temporarily imported rifle without officially transferring it, but you will likely be prevented from leaving South Africa if you cannot submit the rifle that you temporarily imported to SAPS inspection when you leave the country and surrender back to them your temporary importation permit.

By the way, this is the reason why it is critical to not loose your SAPS 520 during your safari as you cannot leave the country without returning it and without it matching the rifle you leave with.

It may be possible (?) to leave the country surreptitiously (and illegally) without the rifle and without surrendering the SAPS, relying on lack of verification, just like it is possible to import ammo for a caliber that is not listed on the SAPS 520 by relying on the fact that the ammo is rarely inspected in South Africa, but this is a major risk to take for both the current trip and any subsequent trip when you may be arrested for the previous trip illegal exit if SAPS has a process to match at some point returned SAPS 520 to issued SAPS 520, and flag illegal departures, which I do not know.
Beside, the rifle itself becomes an illegal rifle, and I would not be surprised that the PH would not want to touch it, since he too would get in a lot of trouble.

In any case, breaking firearm laws in Africa can get you in as much trouble as smuggling illegal drugs. Understand that this means serious jail time. Simply DO NOT DO IT.

In so may words, it is easy enough to travel with a rifle case and ammo case to Africa to not engage on any of the above more risky paths.

So, yes, it is a pain to do the CBD 4457 (coming from the US) and SAPS 520 routine for every trip; to schlep the rifle and ammo cases through airports; to deal with at best untrained and at worst hostile airlines and airports employees; and yes there is always a risk for a piece of luggage to get lost (although the risk is much higher for any regular suitcase than for a rifle case), etc., so, yes, yes, yes, it is a pain, but in truth it remains (so far) very doable, and in terms of risk management, it beast hands down attempting anything shady...

 

[Hank2211]

Many years ago, when Canada stopped allowing Canadians from taking firearms to Zimbabwe (still the case I believe), i picked out a rifle for my PH to buy in Zim, with the scope I wanted. I paid him for it, or gave him an equivalent amount, if you prefer. He rents it to clients when I’m not there, keeps a good eye on it, and accumulates ammo. When I am there, I use it at no charge, and there’s always plenty of ammo.

So technically, it’s his rifle, not mine, legally acquired by him in Zimbabwe. But it accomplishes what you are looking for, and does so legally.