How far are you comfortable shooting a …..?

[Tra3]

Ok, I’ll bite… What caliber and what rifle on this 1 Mile rimfire shot? What scope were you using? Also, I’m not great on math. How big was the 1.7 moa target at 1,760 Yards?

I know it’s a bit off topic, but it does seem interesting. I would love to see the DOPE on this too…

Ooohh, i also am really curious on this. And I hope it was with a .22LR, because 1600’ of drop or 1000 moa on a dial must be awesome to watch.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Ooohh, i also am really curious on this. And I hope it was with a .22LR, because 1600’ of drop or 1000 moa on a dial must be awesome to watch.

I’ve been working on the math, but I can’t get there…

 

[StevenQ718]

375 h&h: 250 ttsx or 260gr etip 300 yards easily, 300gr tsx 250 yards
416 Rigby: 400gr tsx 200 yards, 350gr ttsx 300 yards
9.3x62: 250gr ttsx 300 yards, 286gr tsx 200 yards

 

[grand veneur]

Good points and well said. I am not as knowledgeable about the origin of the 375HH. If it was originally designed for shooting heavy PG at longer distances we should also remind all that at the time of its origin the typical Safari hunter would arrive with a heavy double rifle such as the 450 or 500NE for use on DG and those are not known to be a great tack drivers out past 50y let alone 100/200y, etc being limited to iron sights only in the 1920's. Same hunters might also bring a Griffin Howe 30-06 or a Mauser 7mm or 8mm rifle for smaller game and often those were iron sight only rifles as well. But marksmanship was taught in the schools and military and Springfield and Mauser rifles were capable of hitting game at longer ranges even if they may or may not have the energy to do the job way out there. Yet these intrepid hunters sometimes wanted a heavier option for the big Eland or Kudu or Wildebeest that was out of range of their big heavies. Hence the 375 was a perfect mid-bore. Perfect for Lion, Leopard, and Hippo, etc, and able to take down Eland, Zebra, Giraffe, as well.

Again in the early 20th century the bullet options were solids or softs and not much else. As bullet quality improved we got choices such as the Nosler Partition in the 1940's, and later Swift A-Frame and and Barnes X bullets in the 1980's. This enhance all rifles but greatly enhanced the capabilities of the 375. These offered both controlled expansion and deep penetration in heavy game animals. Where a 375 caliber solid was not that impressive on big game, a 300g A-Frame or TSX that expands to 2x bullet diameter is making a 3/4" hole in the game animal. That was mo-betta. Compared to the 1/2" hole from the 500 nitro loaded with solids and all of a sudden the little 375 is punching well above it intended weight class. It would not be my choice for Elephant but for most all the other DG animals it is a viable option. All that said, long range with a 375 is not 400 or 500y. It is more like 200y or a bit more. It loses too much energy much out past that.

As for dialing turrets for longer shots? If you take the time to learn how to do this and use a proper zero stop optic with reliable, quality turrets, you will be amazed how well you can shoot at distance. As a young man, the first time I fired my FAL loaded with 308 ammo at a 400y tgt I was stunned that the bullet dropped almost 2 ft! I was using a simple scope and was zeroed at 100y. That was many years ago and I have learned a lot about ballistics since that time. Today, I can dial and reliably hit 400y tgts with my 22lr 10 out of 10 shots. And that bullet is dropping something like 25 feet. So making the same shot at 400y with a 30-06, or 308 using a good FFP MIL scope is a chip shot. But that is shooting a steel tgt, not a living game animal. It is shooting from a bench or prone, not off sticks or a ruck. Practical field conditions usually limit us to taking game shots that are about half the distance we can reliably shoot targets at. My opinion.

To imply that dialing your dope risks making errors is in my opinion, a cop out. It is like saying, "I only use iron sights because them scopes might get tweaked or broken in the field". A good MIL optic will not accidentally get moved on the elevation turret, and it will repeatably return to zero in half a second when dialed back to the zero stop. Knowing when and how much to dial is a process of education, testing and practice. Ballistic apps are great but are only as good as the data you feed them. I always confirm my dope with field testing at discreate distances and then refine my ballistic inputs before I use a rifle on game. I almost never need to dial when hunting. If a critter is so far away that dialing dope might be an option, then I also will have time to range the target, dial the dope and judge the wind before making the decision to shoot. It is ALWAYS better to take the time to get closer before taking the shot. It is only ethical to limit my shots to those distances that I know I can make the shot and deliver the bullet with enough energy to expand and penetrate into and thru the vitals for the shot angle I am about to take. I do not use "Dust and Adjust" on any game animal except prairie dogs and those are varmints.

If I am glassing a game animal and am not comfortable with the shot, It is best to wait and try for a better shot.

As far as the medium cartridges are concerned, especially the 375 H&H Magnum in Africa, it is certain that over time and with the improvement of the bullets it has become clear that these cartridges can also be used to a limited extent for shooting big game.

Sure, when shooting from at longer distance, you should not only consider the external ballistics but also, and especially as a hunter, the terminal ballistics. The size of a game and can, because of a poor killing effect of a bullet, quickly become a limiting factor for long-range shots.

As for the scope when shooting at longer ranges, I have often shot at 1000 yards in the past, so I am familiar with dialing the turrets and can compare it to the Maximum Point Blank Range technique. Turrets dialing is definitely the better technic, but shooting at longer distance at a shooting range with a spotter at your side is not comparable to hunting in the mountains at very high altitudes. I have often hunted in such regions and have also shot game at altitudes over 16,000 feet.

No matter how, since I had to shoot in various situations game at longer distances and,
as is it known from such hunts, it did not always work perfectly. For this reason I remain of the opinion that you have to set certain limits and still keep in mind by shooting that an absolute perfect shot placement is, by long range shooting on game, not guaranteed. The French hunting organizer Ovini has published videos about missed long range shots on game. Very interesting and honest.

 

[grand veneur]

Despite everything, I prefer to hunt in Africa and shoot game at reasonable distances using, among other things, the 375 H&H Magnum cartridge. Perfect shot placement can be achieved in the majority of cases, but unfortunately also not always. I have never shot anywhere a game with the cartridge 9,3x62 and unfortunately also never with the cartridge 416 Rigby. Maybe the latter would have been a better and sufficient alternative to the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum, but unfortunately experience comes with time and age. Despite it, I don't regret to own and to have used a rifle caliber 460 Weatherby Magnum. In a special situation, you can use it for shooting at longer range.

 

[coreydb]

What do feel is longest effective range when shooting a 9.3x62, a .375 HH and a .416 Rigby?
I know they will shoot a long distance but what is a reasonable maximum distance you shoot these calibers?

Those are dangerous game calibers and intended for distances 250 yds and less. Your PH will ask you what you are shooting and get you within the closest range possible for a kill shot.

 

[grand veneur]

Those are dangerous game calibers and intended for distances 250 yds and less. Your PH will ask you what you are shooting and get you within the closest range possible for a kill shot.

Intended for is relative if you look at the older catalogs or look at the open sights of the older big bore rifles. Many of these big bore rifles had sights up to 300 yards and if required up to 500 yards. We know from practical experience that big and dangerous game should be shoot at the closest range possible, but I don't know what experiments were performed with the big bore rifles in the past.

 

[coreydb]

Absolutely Grand Veneur, maybe the experiments were "hit or miss". Wind and bullet dynamics probably weren't taken into consideration? After too many misses I definitely would've re-thunk what the heck I was doing wrong.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

There is a whole other angle too, and that is the appreciation of your quarry, getting close enough to see it properly, judge it's horns, form and general health. How old is it? Living the moment if you wish. For me that makes for everything inside 100 metres, and if it is DG make that a maximum of 50 metres because of the need for an absolutely certain shot.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What do feel is longest effective range when shooting a 9.3x62, a .375 HH and a .416 Rigby?
I know they will shoot a long distance but what is a reasonable maximum distance you shoot these calibers?

@dogcat1
Don't have any of those but have a 35 Whelen, equivalent to the 9.3x62. I have shot it at the range to 300 yards but would feel comfortable out to a max of 400.
My longest shot on game to date with it was lasered by my guide/PH at 275 yards on an impala ram. Even at that range it was an easy shot with 225gn accubond leaving the muzzle at 2,900 fps. Practice, practice then more practice is the key to getting the best out of any rifle regardless of the range.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As close as possible...

Lots of factors to consider. I'm sure you'll get about 20 questions before you will get your desired answer. Unless you are just trying to get your reaction score up...

I took Zebra at 125 Yards with my .375 H&H with 300 Grain Barnes TSX. I'd probably take the same ammo and max out at 200 yards or try to get closer.

https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Barnes-CFR-Specs-and-Ballistics.pdf

It comes down to velocity and the BC of the bullet, and of course the initial zero.

** I Zero at 100 Yards and use a NF Scope with Zero Stop and DOPE in my Range finder. Significant bullet drop past 250 yards on 300 Grain TSX bullets, which is what I normally use...

@NIGHTHAWK
I sight ALL my rifles for maximum point blank range. This allows me to hold dead on game for a reasonable range.
My 222 is 1.5 inches high at 100 for a 200 zero and around 6" low at 300. This way the bullet rises or falls no more than 2" out to around 240 yards. Based on a 4" kill zone

My fast 25 is 2.5" high at 100 for a 275-300 yard zero and between an 8-11" drop at 400. Bullet doesn't rise or fall more than 3" out to 325-350 yards . Based on a 6" kill zine

My Whelen is 3"high at 100 and on zero at between 215- 240 yards
depending on projectile.
The bullet doesn't rise or fall more than 4" out to 265 yards. Based on an 8" kill zone.

As you can see I try and match my rifle to the size of the target to get the most out of my hunting. It helps if you have an accurate rifle and shoot it over known distances before hunting.
My 25 will still be just over 2" high at 200 and put 3 shots into less than an inch at that range.

My little 22K Hornet with a 40gn VMAX @ 2,900fps is an inch high at 100 and zeros at 150, down about 2" at 200. At 200 it groups a bit over an inch and a bit and allows you to head shoot foxes out to that range quite happily. I have exploded a couple of rabbits with it out to around 250 with a bit of Kentucky windage and elevation

With these settings I know I can hold on game centre mass and know I'm fine. Backline hold gives me more range. If I have to hold on air and not hair it's getting a bit far out .
I know this is a bit long winded but I like to get the most out of my gear with the least brain power when hunting. Put crosshairs on target, pull trigger, collect game without having to worry to much about range.
Bob

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

@NIGHTHAWK
I sight ALL my rifles for maximum point blank range. This allows me to hold dead on game for a reasonable range.
My 222 is 1.5 inches high at 100 for a 200 zero and around 6" low at 300. This way the bullet rises or falls no more than 2" out to around 240 yards. Based on a 4" kill zone

My fast 25 is 2.5" high at 100 for a 275-300 yard zero and between an 8-11" drop at 400. Bullet doesn't rise or fall more than 3" out to 325-350 yards . Based on a 6" kill zine

My Whelen is 3"high at 100 and on zero at between 215- 240 yards
depending on projectile.
The bullet doesn't rise or fall more than 4" out to 265 yards. Based on an 8" kill zone.

As you can see I try and match my rifle to the size of the target to get the most out of my hunting. It helps if you have an accurate rifle and shoot it over known distances before hunting.
My 25 will still be just over 2" high at 200 and put 3 shots into less than an inch at that range.

My little 22K Hornet with a 40gn VMAX @ 2,900fps is an inch high at 100 and zeros at 150, down about 2" at 200. At 200 it groups a bit over an inch and a bit and allows you to head shoot foxes out to that range quite happily. I have exploded a couple of rabbits with it out to around 250 with a bit of Kentucky windage and elevation

With these settings I know I can hold on game centre mass and know I'm fine. Backline hold gives me more range. If I have to hold on air and not hair it's getting a bit far out .
I know this is a bit long winded but I like to get the most out of my gear with the least brain power when hunting. Put crosshairs on target, pull trigger, collect game without having to worry to much about range.
Bob

Do you use a a Range Finder or Range Finding Bino’s?

Do you zero at the elevation you hunt at?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Do you use a a Range Finder or Range Finding Bino’s?

Do you zero at the elevation you hunt at?

@NIGHTHAWK
I'm a simple man mate.
I use the MK1 Eyeball for range finding in the field. If it looks to far it probably is. I know the distance from the centre of my reticle to the thick crosshair on max power. I know the average size of the game I hunt so a bit of mental maths. Rough by modern standards but works reasonably for my needs.
If I did have a range finder and had time to use it it means I could possibly get closer.
I try and keep my shots to a max of 200 but set my gear up for the max just incase something comes up further out. I know I can still hold centre mass and have a clean kill.
In Australia we don't have anywhere high enough to worry about altitude or elevation. Shit our gights mountain is less than 5,000 feet. I can zero at sea level here and hunt anywhere in Australia.
Bob

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

@NIGHTHAWK
I'm a simple man mate.
I use the MK1 Eyeball for range finding in the field. If it looks to far it probably is. I know the distance from the centre of my reticle to the thick crosshair on max power. I know the average size of the game I hunt so a bit of mental maths. Rough by modern standards but works reasonably for my needs.
If I did have a range finder and had time to use it it means I could possibly get closer.
I try and keep my shots to a max of 200 but set my gear up for the max just incase something comes up further out. I know I can still hold centre mass and have a clean kill.
In Australia we don't have anywhere high enough to worry about altitude or elevation. Shit our gights mountain is less than 5,000 feet. I can zero at sea level here and hunt anywhere in Australia.
Bob

Makes sense.

 

[R eight]

@NIGHTHAWK
I'm a simple man mate.
I use the MK1 Eyeball for range finding in the field. If it looks to far it probably is. I know the distance from the centre of my reticle to the thick crosshair on max power. I know the average size of the game I hunt so a bit of mental maths. Rough by modern standards but works reasonably for my needs.
If I did have a range finder and had time to use it it means I could possibly get closer.
I try and keep my shots to a max of 200 but set my gear up for the max just incase something comes up further out. I know I can still hold centre mass and have a clean kill.
In Australia we don't have anywhere high enough to worry about altitude or elevation. Shit our gights mountain is less than 5,000 feet. I can zero at sea level here and hunt anywhere in Australia.
Bob

2228 meters if I recall correctly. It’s a hell of a tough climb, if you’re over 120 years.

 

[CBH Australia]

From the OPs cartridges listed I only have the .375H&H and very little experience with it.

They say they shoot surprisingly flat for what they are.

I have it zeroed at 100 with a 1.5-5x scope and intend to use it on pigs and hope to tackle some big game one day.

Maybe I could take it for Sambar in scrubby country .

To answer the question I expect I should be able to use it around 200m and would practice more if I had plans coming up.

If I thought I was going to pursue plains game maybe I would change the scope and still practice and learn more on the trajectory and still expect anything over 200 to be a stretch but with a bit of knowledge 300 could be done if required.

 

[grand veneur]

Do you use a a Range Finder or Range Finding Bino’s?

Do you zero at the elevation you hunt at?

The elevation and also the shooting angle are parameters that must also be taken into account by shooting at longer range. Unfortunately, zeroing your rifle at different elevations und shooting angles is rarely possible on a shooting range. Everything has to be checked again on site in the high mountains and there are sometimes surprises when it comes to external ballistics. Luckily, the shooting distances that count when you have very steep shooting angles are not the same than the ones you measure with your range master, so that often less compensation than planned has to be made and that in both directions. One parameter that is difficult to control is the wind. It was not for nothing else that I wrote that long-range shooting at game remains an uncertain matter.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

The elevation and also the shooting angle are parameters that must also be taken into account by shooting at longer range. Unfortunately, zeroing your rifle at different elevations und shooting angles is rarely possible on a shooting range. Everything has to be checked again on site in the high mountains and there are sometimes surprises when it comes to external ballistics. Luckily, the shooting distances that count when you have very steep shooting angles are not the same than the ones you measure with your range master, so that often less compensation than planned has to be made and that in both directions. One parameter that is difficult to control is the wind. It was not for nothing else that I wrote that long-range shooting at game remains an uncertain matter.

None of what you suggest is that difficult to appreciate or comprehend. With the right equipment and experience it’s actually pretty simple. The OP’s original question has more to do with large bore limitations and the duality of testing said limits or levels of comfort there-in.

I’m more interested in what others have done with large bore calibers, than proving the point of what I’ve done with longer range shooting with purpose built rifles, match ammo, and the supporting equipment.

 

[MS 9x56]

I can only give my experience with the 9.3x62 as I do not own either of the 375 or 416. With my CZ550 FS I would be comfortable to 300 yards. Like Bob I sight all my big game calibers to mpbr. Honestly though I have very few shot opportunity’s in my hilly forested Baliwak past 200 yards but should one present itself I feel well armed with my 9.3x62.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

None of what you suggest is that difficult to appreciate or comprehend. With the right equipment and experience it’s actually pretty simple. The OP’s original question has more to do with large bore limitations and the duality of testing said limits or levels of comfort there-in.

I’m more interested in what others have done with large bore calibers, than proving the point of what I’ve done with longer range shooting with purpose built rifles, match ammo, and the supporting equipment.

View attachment 646862

@NIGHTHAWK
MY wind tester is again the MK1 EYEBALL.
If grass gently swaying, light breeze
Grass moving a bit more stronger breeze and a bit of hold off.
Grass laying over, to windy go back to camp, light fire and lock guns away. Break out the Bundy and have a drink and yarn up and a meal
Go to bed start again tomorrow.
Don't need any of that expensive stuff for the ranges I shoot.
I love simples.
Bob