Hornady just announced bonded DGX

[CTDolan]

“I have however pondered why Swift bothers to make their truly large bore A-Frames in semi-spitzer, instead of flat nose or round nose.“ ~ Velo

Ditto with regard to the Partition.

Yeah, I’m pretty damn sure that the 500 grains is going to be held to within 75 yards so give it a round nose, please!

 

[CTDolan]

This is what woodleighs look like too though... the interior lead is soft and once the jacket strips away, nothing is there to support it. The core lead is exposed mashes and smears away. The bullets appear to be bonded all the way to the nose as evidenced by the lead that is still bonded to the jacket sections that have expanded. If it wasn't, these would be copper petals not covered in a tinned layer of lead.

Nosler’s Partition, one of the original (and still favored) premium projectiles, is famous for shedding its front core.

 

[CTDolan]

See that eland 350 yards out? Damn, good thing I’ve got these spitzers! As if...

 

[ChrisG]

Nosler’s Partition, one of the original (and still favored) premium projectiles, is famous for shedding its front core.

Exactly! I'm not saying its a bad thing! Deformation and obliteration of the front core requires a huge amount of energy which gets dumped into the tissues around the bullet as residual. But the bulk of the bullet stays together and penetrates.

 

[One Day...]

Been on the road a few days. Got to pay those bills, right ;-)

I am happy that posting the link to the Robertson video proved valuable to the group.

Re. cost/benefit analysis: no argument there. I shoot PPU in various calibers by the hundreds all year long on steel for practice & pleasure (and they are darned good at it), and I hunt with Federal Premium Nosler Partitions. My current use of factory DGX ammo is practice and "brass donor" (have not gone to reloading yet, but will one day). BUT, I would not mind using DGX B for hunting SHOULD they prove to be worth it (hence my interest), especially since I can only afford a cow buffalo hunt and I am strongly advised to NOT shoot bullets likely to exit in the midst of the herd. Seems like I am in good company with Boddington ;-)

Re. A Frames: as a guy who has been using exclusively Nosler Partitions for 40 years in Europe and USA/Canada with 6 mm, .243, .270, 7 mm (x64 & Rem), .300 (Win & Wby), .338 Win, .340 Wby, .375 H&H - Lord, what do I forget? - since the days when A Frames where not even a thought in the future, I am a fervent believer in the partitioned dual core concept, and yes, I do have a few boxes of Swift for my .416 Rigby intended for field use, from which I do expect the same stellar performance I have had from Partitions for 40 years, whether they shed their front core or not, which happens with monotonous regularity in my experience based on the few bullets I recover that did not punch through. This apparently did not prevent the job from getting done, and therefore did not bother me overly.
From what I saw from friends shooting the A Frames in the last 20 years or so, I did not change from Partitions to A Frames because A Frames also seem to shed their front core, or at least most of it, based on recovered bullets, hence I do not see a real life reason for replacing the couple hundreds Federal Premium Nosler Partition cartridges I keep in various calibers. I may be wrong there, but to me Partitions in European / American calibers are good enough.
Except that in Arizona sooner or later they will be illegal due to the no-lead requirement in Condors areas, that I expect to sooner or later be extended to most the northern part of the State where I live and hunt. Can you spell TSX market opportunity LOL...

Looking forward to read on DGX B in about one year, when enough have been shot at game for DATA to speak...
Thx
Pascal

 

[One Day...]

At the end of the day, I feel that the Swift A-Frame is a best choice for other than creaky old antique doubles, which might suffer damage from this heavily reinforced bullet (it is rumored in some circles that antique doubles MIGHT separate at the muzzles, due to solder breaking loose).

I fully understand that what I am going to say does not imply anything re. whether A Frames would damage old doubles or not, but, for what it is worth, I can testify that the general concern about hard bullets damaging old doubles is justified. My Jules Burry .450#2 double (see my 20 year old avatar pic) was damaged from shooting A Square Monolithic Solids in the following manner. When looking tangentially at the barrels external surface, you could discern where the rifling was inside the barrel. The land were apparently pushed enough for their contour to become visible on the external surface of the barrel. I had George Caswell of Champlin Firearms look at the rifle, which he deemed not damaged - and actually later bought from me - so I did not experience solder joint breaks, but George expressly advised to immediately stop shooting monos AND hard jacketed bullets. Maybe another reason why I have been happy that DGX existed since they were about perfect in my double (regrettably long gone to pay for children tuition bills).

Just sharing my personal experience with a particular rifle and a particular bullet. Does not mean other rifles would react the same to other bullets, but if you need to know a first hand experience re. the issue, I was happy to share: yep, it happened to me.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I fully understand that what I am going to say does not imply anything re. whether A Frames would damage old doubles or not, but, for what it is worth, I can testify that the general concern about hard bullets damaging old doubles is justified. My Jules Burry .450#2 double (see my 20 year old avatar pic) was damaged from shooting A Square Monolithic Solids in the following manner. When looking tangentially at the barrels external surface, you could discern where the rifling was inside the barrel. The land were apparently pushed enough for their contour to become visible on the external surface of the barrel. I had George Caswell of Champlin Firearms look at the rifle, which he deemed not damaged - and actually later bought from me - so I did not experience solder joint breaks, but George expressly advised to immediately stop shooting monos AND hard jacketed bullets. Maybe another reason why I have been happy that DGX existed since they were about perfect in my double (regrettably long gone to pay for children tuition bills).

Just sharing my personal experience with a particular rifle and a particular bullet. Does not mean other rifles would react the same to other bullets, but if you need to know a first hand experience re. the issue, I was happy to share: yep, it happened to me.

Look at North Fork or Cutting Edge Bullets

 

[Ridgewalker]

I fully understand that what I am going to say does not imply anything re. whether A Frames would damage old doubles or not, but, for what it is worth, I can testify that the general concern about hard bullets damaging old doubles is justified. My Jules Burry .450#2 double (see my 20 year old avatar pic) was damaged from shooting A Square Monolithic Solids in the following manner. When looking tangentially at the barrels external surface, you could discern where the rifling was inside the barrel. The land were apparently pushed enough for their contour to become visible on the external surface of the barrel. I had George Caswell of Champlin Firearms look at the rifle, which he deemed not damaged - and actually later bought from me - so I did not experience solder joint breaks, but George expressly advised to immediately stop shooting monos AND hard jacketed bullets. Maybe another reason why I have been happy that DGX existed since they were about perfect in my double (regrettably long gone to pay for children tuition bills).

Just sharing my personal experience with a particular rifle and a particular bullet. Does not mean other rifles would react the same to other bullets, but if you need to know a first hand experience re. the issue, I was happy to share: yep, it happened to me.

Yep, and I don’t shoot steel shot in my Arrieta and AyAs for good reason.

 

[ChrisG]

Hornady just put out this video on the bonded DGX. Dr. Kevin Robertson does the autopsy on the buff in the vid. Interesting watch.

 

[ChrisG]

Hornady just put out this video on the bonded DGX. Dr. Kevin Robertson does the autopsy on the buff in the vid. Interesting watch.

Oh I guess the link to this was already posted... sorry. I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake. Anyway, now it is embedded in the thread. Cheers!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

“I have however pondered why Swift bothers to make their truly large bore A-Frames in semi-spitzer, instead of flat nose or round nose.“ ~ Velo

Ditto with regard to the Partition.

Yeah, I’m pretty damn sure that the 500 grains is going to be held to within 75 yards so give it a round nose, please!

@Velo Dog and @CTDolan,

The North Forks are a semi-spitzer too. I don't know for certain, but I believe that flat face is all that's needed to initiate expansion and may in fact be intended to somewhat slow it down and control it. A round nose I would think would expand more quickly. The spitze design maybe also works better for feeding?

 

[CTDolan]

@Velo Dog and @CTDolan,

The North Forks are a semi-spitzer too. I don't know for certain, but I believe that flat face is all that's needed to initiate expansion and may in fact be intended to somewhat slow it down and control it. A round nose I would think would expand more quickly. The spitze design maybe also works better for feeding?

Agreed, it would feed better in those rifles which need a little assistance that way.

My guess is that, with the spitzer profile, manufacturers feel as though they've all bases covered, up close and not so close.

 

[meigsbucks]

When I hunted buffalo in ZIm in 2013, I used a .416 Ruger. Prior to the hunt I asked my PH, should I use the Hornady factory DGX and DGS or go with handholds using Barnes TSX and Banded Solids. He said the DGX regularly came apart but the solids were OK. Most were in .375. The Barnes worked great!

 

[Velo Dog]

PHOENIX PHIL and CTDolan,

I agree with you both.
It just seems a little off-key IMO, to make pointy shaped projectiles in calibers .40 and larger (sort of like carrying a .45 auto-pistol, for self defense against bandits and such, but loaded with spitzer pointed bullets).
Be that as it may, since the A-Frame bullets perform so incredibly well, just as they are, my head scratching over this is really just academic / whimsical camp fire talk.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Dr Ray]

Hornady just put out this video on the bonded DGX. Dr. Kevin Robertson does the autopsy on the buff in the vid. Interesting watch.

Very interesting that’s for sure.

 

[Edgar DeHart Jr.]

Plus 1

We will see how well they kill animals. The degree of dead could be much better with the new bullet.

Not just merely dead but really quite sincerely dead?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Not just merely dead but really quite sincerely dead?

Perhaps fewer sincerely dead or injured PH's / hunters too.

 

[spike.t]

Like George Grey in the Aberdares, 1911?

chris it was on the athi plain not the aberdares....

 

[ChrisG]

chris it was on the athi plain not the aberdares....

You're right. My bad, trying to recall from memory has failed me again.

 

[tarbe]

Just for fun....a comparison.

400gr .410. A-Frame on the left, North Fork on the right.