Holland and Holland Aperture sight windage adjustment

[Frederik Badenhorst]

Hi guys

I have a 375 H&H by Holland & Holland that is fitted with a cocking piece mounted aperture sight.

The problem is the rifle shoots a foot to the left at 100m.

I tried to figure out how to adjust the windage on this aperture sight so it might work , but unfortunately has had no luck so far.

The front sight is captive - it slides into position without any possibility for sideways movement.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thank you.

I will include some photos.

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

Hi Frederik, I think I may be able to assist you. I have a cocking piece mounted ghost ring on my 404 J - different design, but the principle is the same
That rear facing little screw right below the aperture - loosen that screw slightly and then roll or slide the aperture to the right (I can see that it is currently all the way to the left, which would would make your rifle shoot right). My guess is a little to the right of center would be good starting point. Adjust as needed once sighting in the rifle. One suggestion - don’t bother with targets, a straight dead vertical line at 20 yards is perfect - remember you are now only worried about the wind age accuracy, so make sure you see the line sharp and crisp. Hope this helps, mate

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

 

[Opposite Pole]

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I want one! What brand is it? Where can one buy it? Can it be mounted on Win M70?

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

I want one! What brand is it? Where can one buy it? Can it be mounted on Win M70?

OP, right now we are in full lock down - cannot get anywhere. As soon as life normalizes somewhat I will get you all the details. If memory serves me well enough, I think it was around the US$ 600 mark. Deer but well worth it

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

Hi Frederik, I think I may be able to assist you. I have a cocking piece mounted ghost ring on my 404 J - different design, but the principle is the same
That rear facing little screw right below the aperture - loosen that screw slightly and then roll or slide the aperture to the right (I can see that it is currently all the way to the left, which would would make your rifle shoot right). My guess is a little to the right of center would be good starting point. Adjust as needed once sighting in the rifle. One suggestion - don’t bother with targets, a straight dead vertical line at 20 yards is perfect - remember you are now only worried about the wind age accuracy, so make sure you see the line sharp and crisp. Hope this helps, mate

Sorry, got mixed up with left and right - rear aperture to the left makes your rifle shoot to the LEFT ( not right as stated above)

 

[Shootist43]

Opposite Pole how about this one: https://mclaughlincustomfirearms.com/rigby-peep-sights/

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

@Uwe Jaspersen So I loosened the screw and there is a limited amount of rotation that can be exerted on the round disc. The opposite end is more of an oval that allows minute lateral movement of the little pinpoint hole. I tried to capture it on a photo. There is only about 1-2 millimetre movement. The base that you see in the photo and was referring to looks to be immovible.
The little disc is already to the far right in regards to movement.

Photo 1 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the right

Photo 2 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the left

Photo 4 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the left

Photo 4 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the right

 

[Shootist43]

Frederik, in your OP the first photo shows the disk to be left of center which would make your rifle shoot left just like Uwe said. Attached is the link to a sight adjustment calculator, plug in the numbers to see how much the rear sight needs to be moved. https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13093

Also, please provide a detailed photo of your front sight.

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

Frederik, in your OP the first photo shows the disk to be left of center which would make your rifle shoot left just like Uwe said. Attached is the link to a sight adjustment calculator, plug in the numbers to see how much the rear sight needs to be moved. https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13093

Also, please provide a detailed photo of your front sight.

@Shootist43 You are mistaken, sir.
You are referring to the disk pedestal being to the left, the base upon which the disc is sitting, unfortunately, this part is immovable as stated above. The only moving part that I can find is the disc itself that rotates slightly to the left or right.
If you look closely at the picture you can see the screw slots into a recess of the pedestal making lateral movement impossible.

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

I will post a picture of the front sight at a later time. The front sight has been bent to the left by one of the rifles previous owners in an attempt to rectify the fact that the rifle shoots to the left.

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

@Uwe Jaspersen So I loosened the screw and there is a limited amount of rotation that can be exerted on the round disc. The opposite end is more of an oval that allows minute lateral movement of the little pinpoint hole. I tried to capture it on a photo. There is only about 1-2 millimetre movement. The base that you see in the photo and was referring to looks to be immovible.
The little disc is already to the far right in regards to movement.

Photo 1 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the right

Photo 2 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the left

Photo 4 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the left

Photo 4 : Aperture disc is fully rotated to the right

Hi Frederik, hard to make out in the pictures, but the one picture shows your aperture disc firmly on the right - it almost looks like it might be too much already. Check it out at the range

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

I will post a picture of the front sight at a later time. The front sight has been bent to the left by one of the rifles previous owners in an attempt to rectify the fact that the rifle shoots to the left.

Hi Frederik, it almost seems that the previous owner tried to correct the sights but got confused and pushed the rear sight over to left to sort out the left POI. When that did not work he then went on to bubba the front bead to the left (which is the right direction, but not quite the right method

 

[Shootist43]

Frederik, are you located anywhere near a good gunsmith, if so maybe he can help. I cannot believe that Holland and Holland would let a rifle out of their shop that groups a foot left at 100 Yards. Would you consider sending them an email with photos? I have to say that since bespoke H&H rifles are out of my price range, I don't know if they are still in business. If they are, I'm sure they will be willing to help.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Perhaps there’s a pressure point between the stock/barrel somewhere? Wood can swell or bend with time. Is the barrel freefloated and are the action screws tight?

 

[Uwe Jaspersen]

Perhaps there’s a pressure point between the stock/barrel somewhere? Wood can swell or bend with time. Is the barrel freefloated and are the action screws tight?

OP, the fact that the aperture disc was squashed to the one side to start off with, makes me think that this is the cause. H&H would not put a rifle in the market with a pressure point. Plus pressure points tend to create spray pattern - does not sound like that is the case here

 

[Forrest Halley]

So given the long radius of sights and the change made, has anyone shot the thing to verify?

 

[Frederik Badenhorst]

HAHAHAHA....have you guys ever had to deal with Holland and Holland on older guns.

Don't get me wrong, they are an amazing company with breathtaking products, but believe you me, they are not falling over their feet to assist with inquiries like these. I can totally understand this, they have a small staff and they are dealing with a lot of custom orders. I am not complaining, so please don't crucify me for this statement.
That is just my own experience and I might not be shared by anyone else. I wrote them an email about refurbishing this rifle 4 months ago. Still no reply. I am patient though.

We have such an amazing knowledge base in this forum that I was hoping that someone could advice me.Specifically
someone with experience with these specific aperture sights.

@Forrest Halley - Yes sir I have shot it many times , with the disc in all the conceivable positions - Still shoots to the left

This gun was bought from a French gentleman, we conversed via google translate for about a month. He could only tell me that the gun was bought by him 30 years ago in the Yukon. So I don't have a lot of history on the gun. It is just an amazing rifle and handles extremely well. It has a single square bridge Mauser magnum action and shoots really well....just to the left. An alternative is swapping out the long cocking piece with a replacement cocking-piece and a Rigby style peep site.

 

[Scrumbag]

@Frederick Badenhort can you strip the cocking piece off the the bolt and take some more detailled pictures?

Is there a join between the cocking piece and the sight mechanism? If there is, you might be able to do crude adjustment by moving the rear sight in relation to the cocking piece and then fine adjustement by sliding the aperture.

Kind regards,

Scrummy

 

[Scrumbag]

@ Opposite Pole

I used a Prechtl-Waffen (https://www.prechtl-waffen.de/waffenteile-cat298.html) peep sight on my 9.3x62.

I understand John McLaughlin in the US also makes them: https://mclaughlincustomfirearms.com/rigby-peep-sights/

ATB,

Scrummy