Historically, how common were 7x64 and 9.3x57?

[clockwork_7mm_gator]

I read frequently that the 9.3x62 was a near universal "utility" gun for German settlers in various colonies. In the first half of the 20th century, and especially between the world wars, I'm curious how popular the 9.3x57 and 7x64 were? They seem like counterparts to English rivals but the 7x64 and 7x57/Rigby also overlap quite a bit. Thanks y'all.

 

[PerH]

More used 9,3x57 in Sweden than elsewhere based on what i have seen. Always been ammo around for it, Norma have made it as i know almost non stop. And Blaser even made a series barrels in 9m3x57 they went much to Germany and most to Sweden.

 

[clockwork_7mm_gator]

Gosh darn my phone...typo in the title

 

[Red Leg]

The 9.3x62 was created in 1905. It had decade in which to gain a secure foothold in German Southwest and East Africa before WWI. The 7x64, on the other hand, was created in by Wilhelm Brenneke in 1917. The First World War ended in November 1918 and resulted in the loss of the German African colonies to British control. Hence, the demand for a German light plains game rifle never materialized. The 7x64 and it's rimmed counterpart, the 7x65R, did go on to great and continuing popularity on the Continent of Europe.

9.3x57 was a bit of an odd duck. With the creation of the x62, the x57 had relatively little utility in Africa. As noted above, for some reason it did catch on in Scandinavia. Where the big, slow, heavy for caliber bullet was effective on the Scandinavian "moose."

 

[sestoppelman]

The late Kenya PH and gunwriter Finn Aagaard used a 7x64 during much of his hunting career and always spoke highly of it.
He had a 98 Mauser made by or sold by Waffen Frankonia marked for "B.E.A Corp, that being the British East Africa Corp. A rare rifle.
More than a few years ago now I stumbled on the same exact rifle, not his, but the same gun in every way, without his personal modifications.
Sadly, like a frikken idiot, I sold it! One of my stupider moments!

 

[John Telford]

7x57 ammo was way more available at the time I suppose? The German Colonies used the 9.3x62 and the military calibers such as the 7x57 ,8x57 which became the 8x60 after WW1. Once the Colonies where lost to Germany their gun trade also took a knock. The same can be asked about Shulers calibers.

 

[PerH]

The 9.3x62 was created in 1905. It had decade in which to gain a secure foothold in German Southwest and East Africa before WWI. The 7x64, on the other hand, was created in by Wilhelm Brenneke in 1917. The First World War ended in November 1918 and resulted in the loss of the German African colonies to British control. Hence, the demand for a German light plains game rifle never materialized. The 7x64 and it's rimmed counterpart, the 7x65R, did go on to great and continuing popularity on the Continent of Europe.

9.3x57 was a bit of an odd duck. With the creation of the x62, the x57 had relatively little utility in Africa. As noted above, for some reason it did catch on in Scandinavia. Where the big, slow, heavy for caliber bullet was effective on the Scandinavian "moose."

And Bear since re Swedes have ordinary hunting times on them and not cry babies who put weird rules on anything .(yet),

And Boar ,well known tracking purpose it handle well, 286 and 232 of various types and a Jaktmatch Fmj.

 

[clockwork_7mm_gator]

Yea, I figured losing colonial holdings didn't help. But also wondered how many other folks picked them up, especially the 7x64, because it really is a good cartridge.

My question probably would have been better asked including the 9x57, which I think predates the x62 by almost a decade, and was a straight 8x57 necked up with no other alterations?

Part of my question also had to do with the utility of the 9.3x62. Would your average pre-WW1 colonist be using that single rifle for everything from small plains game to DG or were they delving into more specialized batteries like we might today? (I know there's no single answer here, but the mythology of the 9.3x62 points to it being the "one rifle" for a lot of farmers.)

 

[spike.t]

One rifle for everything...relative cheap reliable rifles, and great calibre that is capable of taking any African game if the shooter does his job...perfect for what the farmers etc needed then

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Look at this.

https://doublegunshop.com/fran3.htm

This is the last known website of Auguste Francotte ( from 1996 ), before the company ceased operations. Their bolt action rifles were offered in 7x64mm Brenneke and 7mm Remington Magnum, but not 7x57mm Mauser. This leads me to believe that the caliber was reasonably popular in Belgium, during the 1990s.

 

[Longwalker]

Interesting that you pose a question about the 7x64 in the past tense. I believe that for nearly 100 years it has been one of the most widely used cartridges in Europe. It is still very popular, and is currently chambered in most modern, standard European rifles. It is also quite popular in much of Africa, especially countries with historical ties to Germany. My understanding is that the 7x64 is also more popular than the 7x57 in most areas of Europe and Africa. Almost no modern rifles are chambered for 7x57 except break action rifles for the rimmed version. It is mainly in the USA that the 7x64 is an "obscure" cartridge.
I agree with the assessment of the 9.3x62 as a one rifle, do everything cartridge. Early farmers likely did not have a specialized range of rifles to use.

 

[sestoppelman]

I have owned several and currently have one of the Zastava M70 imports that were plentiful a short time ago in the round. Like all I have owned its a good shooter.

 

[clockwork_7mm_gator]

Walker

Interesting that you pose a question about the 7x64 in the past tense. I believe that for nearly 100 years it has been one of the most widely used cartridges in Europe. It is still very popular, and is currently chambered in most modern, standard European rifles. It is also quite popular in much of Africa, especially countries with historical ties to Germany. My understanding is that the 7x64 is also more popular than the 7x57 in most areas of Europe and Africa. Almost no modern rifles are chambered for 7x57 except break action rifles for the rimmed version. It is mainly in the USA that the 7x64 is an "obscure" cartridge.
I agree with the assessment of the 9.3x62 as a one rifle, do everything cartridge. Early farmers likely did not have a specialized range of rifles to use.

Walker - my question was about use in the first half of the 20th century... so it had to be past tense! I had a 7x64 and still regret selling it, so no arguments from me about its current efficacy.

 

[Scrumbag]

So, 7x64

7x64 still very popular in Europe and I think large parts of subsaharan Africa

I Europe it was popular as in several countries that banned military calibres. (So, for example, if you wanted ~.30-06 performance but couldn't use one for hunting, you used a 7x64. Very similar performance with 150-175gr bullets which would do most of what you want in Europe).

Historically, if 7x57 was good, how about those nice long 7mm bullets going faster? Hmmmm More Betterer

9.3x57 was a very useful way of making loves of x55 and x57 actions (and the factories that had the tooling for them) produce a very useable hunting cartridge with more thump for boar, moose and larger deer - I think Husqvarna had a lot to do with this. Funnily enough the Canadians seem to love 9.3x57 and I think that's the chambering Speer had in mind for their 270gr 9.3 offering.

 

[mark-hunter]

9.3x57 is something that I have nevere seen. I doubt there is any factory ammo, made today.
On the other hand 7x64 is very popular and present on old continent.

"57" casing, today is becoming less popular, even in european factory rife production.
7x57 is shadowed by 7x64
9.3x57 is shadowed by 9.3x62.... and to less extent with 9.3x64.

 

[DieJager]

My understanding is that the 7x64 is also more popular than the 7x57 in most areas of Europe

True probably only surpassed recently by the 308 I think, over in the Netherlands those two are the most popular hunting calibers

 

[PerH]

Didnt France until recently have its law regarding former and curren millitary cartridges which made 7x64 popular since its not a millitary designed one.

7x64 is much popular her also,7x57 is more enthusiast one.

7x57R were the first R cartridge sold in large quantas to combos,drillings of all levels og price here . So its ubiqoutous to have around.

 

[Scrumbag]

Didnt France until recently have its law regarding former and curren millitary cartridges which made 7x64 popular since its not a millitary designed one.

7x64 is much popular her also,7x57 is more enthusiast one.

7x57R were the first R cartridge sold in large quantas to combos,drillings of all levels og price here . So its ubiqoutous to have around.

Yes, law stood until the end of 2013.

That was why I bought a 7x64, hunting in France. Belgium I think had a similar law on using military calibres and I think Italy still does.

How's Norway? Cold yet?

Scrummy

 

[PerH]

Yes, law stood until the end of 2013.

That was why I bought a 7x64, hunting in France. Belgium I think had a similar law on using military calibres and I think Italy still does.

How's Norway? Cold yet?

Scrummy

About 8 inch snow ,some wind . Will rain tomorrow or so they say .

2013 the law stood to,thats long for it . But also understandable why other cartridges like 280 Rem and such have been so popular .

 

[IvW]

True probably only surpassed recently by the 308 I think, over in the Netherlands those two are the most popular hunting calibers

I thought they only hunt 3 bird species and rabbit and hare in Netherlands?