High fence reserves

[wildfowler.250]

Hi guys,


Just wondering if you could answer a couple of questions for me please?


I don’t mind hunting high fence as long as the areas are huge and you don’t ever see the fences,(obviously on the way in you will).


Do these areas regularly release animals onto the ground? I was speaking to someone who was hunting in Africa recently and he said that these places basically have to because of the volume of hunters and numbers of animals taken off the place. I’ve also heard stories of animals being shot with ear tags or shooting an animal with holes in its ears where the ear tags have been previously removed.


I don’t mind the high fence concept but wouldn’t want to hunt somewhere where animals are regularly released to be shot? Do these places have self sustaining populations or is it a case of put and take?


No judgement either way. I’d just rather get a little more info


Cheers!

 

[BRICKBURN]

............Do these places have self sustaining populations or is it a case of put and take?
.

There are both, without a doubt.
Every place will supplement the original breeding stock. That is only a reasonable breeding plan.

Review and compare to get some clues:
The size of the property.
The number of properties to be hunted.
The species.
The number of species on the property.
The number of hunters per year/week, etc.
The topography and geography of the area to be hunted. Flat open hay field or .....
Is the species Endemic to the area. (Historic Distribution)

 

[gillettehunter]

First thing is to just ask. Most of the outfitters will be happy to provide details. Like Brickburn says most will release some stock to improve their genetics. Don't be afraid of 5000 acre properties in areas with lots of cover. Family owned with little hunting pressure and it is most likely not a "stocked ranch". More arid areas should be a larger property. Good luck.
Bruce

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have hunted in South Africa on 10,000 to 20,000 acre high fence areas and 50,000 acres in Namibia and didn't feel fenced in. The ultimate though was the Bubye Valley Conservancy (BVC) in Zim. It's over 800,000 acres.

 

[sambarhunter]

When you drive in and out of the gates is when you know it!

There are no gates free range!

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Hi guys,


Just wondering if you could answer a couple of questions for me please?


I don’t mind hunting high fence as long as the areas are huge and you don’t ever see the fences,(obviously on the way in you will).


Do these areas regularly release animals onto the ground? I was speaking to someone who was hunting in Africa recently and he said that these places basically have to because of the volume of hunters and numbers of animals taken off the place. I’ve also heard stories of animals being shot with ear tags or shooting an animal with holes in its ears where the ear tags have been previously removed.


I don’t mind the high fence concept but wouldn’t want to hunt somewhere where animals are regularly released to be shot? Do these places have self sustaining populations or is it a case of put and take?


No judgement either way. I’d just rather get a little more info


Cheers!

It seems to me that it is becoming an understanding that most of South Africa is put and take. This is certainly NOT the case. There are some excellent, massive areas in South Africa with self sustaining herd of animals to be hunted.
Simply do your research and you will be treated to a great hunting experience.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen

 

[johnnyblues]

+ 1 what Marius said. I ve hunted both and I can tell you there is certainly enough cover at least where I hunted to make it a hunt. research and the proper PH are key! My go to go when I hunt in SA is KMG safaris one of our sponsors.

 

[Ridgewalker]

I’ve hunted a few 5-10,000 acre properties. Some with maybe 200 acre open fields, but still mostly very thick bushveld. The hunt was certainly not a given in most. The animals only came into the fields after dark. While out hunting night critters with a spotlight, I couldn’t believe the number of PG animals I saw which we didn’t even get a flickering glimpse of during the day!

Huge properties, or free range areas are wonderful if you have the time to pursue game. But just as in hunting elk in Colorado, the PH/guide has to know the animals and where they will be at what time of day and in what season. Game knowledge is the biggest key no matter where you hunt. Africa just has such an abundance of different game that it aids your success.

Best of luck deciding what works for you!

 

[Red Leg]

I’ll simply echo what Marius notes. There are many properties of sufficient size that the animal’s natural domain is completely unconstrained. The vast majority of those properties and herds are managed as self-sustaining environments. Shooting plans are developed and strictly followed. Clients are booked based upon that shooting plan. Instead of adding animals, many of these well-run operations sell off excess game at auctions, cull and sell for meat, or to hunters interested in a cull shoot.

There are indeed other locations in the RSA that are either quite small properties, or where maximum hunter through-put is the goal. Let me just say, I would never knowingly book with such an operation.

I primarily have hunted free-range concessions and likely will continue to do so. Those environments, particularly for plains game, are nothing like North America. It is Africa after all, and the low fence ranch concessions of central Namibia let’s say, are generally teaming with game animals - though teaming with just the animals native to that region.

Do your research. Be cautious of the advice of someone who has been to the Continent just once or only with one outfitter. Always remember anyone can have a cool looking website. I was given the sage advice over a decade ago to use the services of a well established hunting consultant to book my first few hunts in Africa. Their role is to match your expectations and budget with the right outfitter. The Atcheson brothers are terrific and so is Bob Kern of the Hunting Consortium.

 

[dobber]

I have hunted the same property 3 times, the last 2 times was strictly his place. There have been Kudu living there for many many years, in fact some of the herd were caught and moved when Addo park was being put into motion. There have been many people on the site that have hunted with Warren at the 'Kudu camp" and will attest to the amount of animals there (its 25,000 acres)

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

I hunt two large reserves, both exceeding 40000 acres and both with buffalo and white rhino on it. One has a herd of elephants on it. They don’t introduce new stock for hunting but at some point would’ve introduced some species to the reserve. The hunting is tough, far tougher than some would imagine. 40000 acres is big, if a client is fit enough we often hike 5-8 miles a day. I’ve never hunted with a client who complained that he wasn’t pushed to the extremes of his fitness ability. With a lot of clients I’ve had to take their fitness into consideration and plan the stalks accordingly. It’s seldom as a PH you have a client who is fit as you’d like him to be. A high fence boundary on a 40000 acre reserve has zero impact on the fair chase of a hunt. When hunting these reserves I stay over night for 1-3 nights balancing my time with hunting time on my own property and area.

I often think the problem comes in due to the number of species SA has. You want to hunt 8-12 different species on one property and not drive at all, chances are you’re going to hunt either put or take animals or inferior trophy quality animals. Choose an outfitter that will balance your time between the properties he has access to. Look at his trophy quality. You can’t book 30 clients a year and shoot world class trophies on a 10000acre property without doing some serious put and take.

 

[Philip Glass]

Ask lots of questions of your outfitter before booking

 

[Hank2211]

I hunt two large reserves, both exceeding 40000 acres and both with buffalo and white rhino on it. One has a herd of elephants on it. They don’t introduce new stock for hunting but at some point would’ve introduced some species to the reserve. The hunting is tough, far tougher than some would imagine. 40000 acres is big, if a client is fit enough we often hike 5-8 miles a day. I’ve never hunted with a client who complained that he wasn’t pushed to the extremes of his fitness ability. With a lot of clients I’ve had to take their fitness into consideration and plan the stalks accordingly. It’s seldom as a PH you have a client who is fit as you’d like him to be. A high fence boundary on a 40000 acre reserve has zero impact on the fair chase of a hunt. When hunting these reserves I stay over night for 1-3 nights balancing my time with hunting time on my own property and area.

I often think the problem comes in due to the number of species SA has. You want to hunt 8-12 different species on one property and not drive at all, chances are you’re going to hunt either put or take animals or inferior trophy quality animals. Choose an outfitter that will balance your time between the properties he has access to. Look at his trophy quality. You can’t book 30 clients a year and shoot world class trophies on a 10000acre property without doing some serious put and take.

Mr. Thomas, let me start by saying that I may be somewhat sensitive to some of your comments, so please don't take this personally.

With that out of the way, I have to say little annoys me more than to hear PH's complain about how fit their clients are. Here, you say ""It's seldom as a PH you have a client who is as fit as you'd like him to be." How fit is that exactly? As fit as you are? I don't know you, but from your avatar, I'd suggest I might refer to you as "young fella" in conversation. I also assume you've spent a good part of your life outdoors, engaged in physical activity. All of the implies a pretty high level of fitness.

I don't know what a typical hunter looks like, or if such a person even exists. But I'm 61, I weigh a bit more than I should, and I've been "blessed" with a bit of arthritis in the knees. And like many of us, I've spent my life working in an office, behind a desk. Not conducive to suddenly becoming a marathon runner upon retirement. Having said that, I work out with a trainer twice a week, and try to get some more physical activity in when I can. Still, there is no way I could keep up with a PH my own age, let alone one half my age.

Let's take one other factor into account. I hunt because I love being outdoors (since I spent most of my life indoors, remember?), I love being around animals, and I love loud noises (no bow hunting here). If I can't keep up to you and the result is that I don't get the animal, well, I'm not terribly upset, because I now get to do it all over again tomorrow! And if I don't get what I want on this trip, well, that's a pretty good reason for coming back next year! It's that kind of thinking that's got me to 15+ safaris. Yet some PH's seem disappointed when you can't keep up with them . . . as if this is a personal affront to them.

I imagine more hunters look like me than look like you. I also imagine most of us do what we can to get into better shape before a hunt. But just like you can't fight Mother Nature when it comes to hunting, you can't fight her (or at least not much and rarely successfully) when it comes to aging. So I suggest that all of you PH's try just a bit harder to understand your clients, and to work within the limits they have.

There. Rant over. Apologies for getting away from fenced hunting.

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Mr. Thomas, let me start by saying that I may be somewhat sensitive to some of your comments, so please don't take this personally.

With that out of the way, I have to say little annoys me more than to hear PH's complain about how fit their clients are. Here, you say ""It's seldom as a PH you have a client who is as fit as you'd like him to be." How fit is that exactly? As fit as you are? I don't know you, but from your avatar, I'd suggest I might refer to you as "young fella" in conversation. I also assume you've spent a good part of your life outdoors, engaged in physical activity. All of the implies a pretty high level of fitness.

I don't know what a typical hunter looks like, or if such a person even exists. But I'm 61, I weigh a bit more than I should, and I've been "blessed" with a bit of arthritis in the knees. And like many of us, I've spent my life working in an office, behind a desk. Not conducive to suddenly becoming a marathon runner upon retirement. Having said that, I work out with a trainer twice a week, and try to get some more physical activity in when I can. Still, there is no way I could keep up with a PH my own age, let alone one half my age.

Let's take one other factor into account. I hunt because I love being outdoors (since I spent most of my life indoors, remember?), I love being around animals, and I love loud noises (no bow hunting here). If I can't keep up to you and the result is that I don't get the animal, well, I'm not terribly upset, because I now get to do it all over again tomorrow! And if I don't get what I want on this trip, well, that's a pretty good reason for coming back next year! It's that kind of thinking that's got me to 15+ safaris. Yet some PH's seem disappointed when you can't keep up with them . . . as if this is a personal affront to them.

I imagine more hunters look like me than look like you. I also imagine most of us do what we can to get into better shape before a hunt. But just like you can't fight Mother Nature when it comes to hunting, you can't fight her (or at least not much and rarely successfully) when it comes to aging. So I suggest that all of you PH's try just a bit harder to understand your clients, and to work within the limits they have.

There. Rant over. Apologies for getting away from fenced hunting.

Hi Hank

My name’s Victor Watson. There’s no Thomas in my name. I’m 42 years old, beginning to age and not as fit as I’d like to be either. Who over 40 is?

I believe you’ve taken what I stated very personally and completely out of context. I wasn’t complaining about clients fitness I was merely explaining that hunting in a 40000 acre property, most people will test their physical limit. My oldest client is 76 years old, he’s hunted with me 5 times and I love every moment of hunting with him. Im sure the feeling is mutual else he’s be hunting with someone else. The majority of my return clients are over 65. I understand my clients needs, despite you thinking otherwise.

You need to re consider your tone if you value engagement from outfitters on AH. I wrote off the cuff what I thought about fenced hunts, successful PHs know what it’s like to work with their clients physical limitations. It’s not a personal attack on anyone at all and my intention wasn’t to offend at all.

 

[Hank2211]

Hi Hank

My name’s Victor Watson. There’s no Thomas in my name. I’m 42 years old, beginning to age and not as fit as I’d like to be either. Who over 40 is?

I believe you’ve taken what i stared very personally and completely out of context. I wasn’t complaining about clients fitness I was merely explaining that hunting in a 40000 acre property, most people will test their physical limit. My oldest client is 76 years old, he’s hunted with me 5 times and I love every moment of hunting with him. Im sure the feeling is mutual else he’s be hunting with someone else. The majority of my return clients are over 65. I understand my clients needs, despite you thinking otherwise.

You need to re consider your tone if you value engagement from outfitters on AH. I wrote off the cuff what I thought about fenced hunts, successful PHs know what it’s like to work with their clients physical limitations. It’s not a personal attack on anyone at all and my intention wasn’t to offend at all.

Apologies for getting your name wrong. Not sure how I did that.

I told you in the first line of my post that I was being "somewhat" sensitive, and that this wasn't personal about you. I also acknowledged it was a rant - but if you look at the threads on AH relating to what PH's look for in clients, or complaints PH's have about clients, you will find fitness referred to time and time again. And without any differentiation between those who are genuinely slugs and the rest of us who are doing the best they can with what they have. That annoys me.

I understand what you were trying to get at in your post - that you can work just as hard in fenced areas as in unfenced areas. (I am happy to debate that with you, but I get what you were trying to say.) But is that all you were trying to say? Nevertheless, I was using something you said to make a point of my own.

Notwithstanding my various caveats though, you seem to have taken my comments very personally. To quote just about every politician I've ever heard, I'm sorry if you took my comments that way.

Now, I will admit I have no idea what you mean when you say I "need to reconsider [my] tone if value engagement from outfitters on AH." Are you suggesting outfitters won't engage with me on AH? Or are you suggesting that if people say something outfitters don't like then they will stop engaging on AH? Or is it something else altogether?

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Apologies for getting your name wrong. Not sure how I did that.

I told you in the first line of my post that I was being "somewhat" sensitive, and that this wasn't personal about you. I also acknowledged it was a rant - but if you look at the threads on AH relating to what PH's look for in clients, or complaints PH's have about clients, you will find fitness referred to time and time again. And without any differentiation between those who are genuinely slugs and the rest of us who are doing the best they can with what they have. That annoys me.

I understand what you were trying to get at in your post - that you can work just as hard in fenced areas as in unfenced areas. (I am happy to debate that with you, but I get what you were trying to say.) But is that all you were trying to say? Nevertheless, I was using something you said to make a point of my own.

Notwithstanding my various caveats though, you seem to have taken my comments very personally. To quote just about every politician I've ever heard, I'm sorry if you took my comments that way.

Now, I will admit I have no idea what you mean when you say I "need to reconsider [my] tone if value engagement from outfitters on AH." Are you suggesting outfitters won't engage with me on AH? Or are you suggesting that if people say something outfitters don't like then they will stop engaging on AH? Or is it something else altogether?

The topic was about fenced hunts. You changed it into something else altogether. A little personal and a little condescending. I don’t have a desire to contribute any further. That should answer your last question.

 

[BRICKBURN]

 

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for the replies guys. Nice to hear some of these bigger conservancies can self sustain their own population. Wouldn’t mind the odd animal being added to give the gene pool some variety but wouldn’t want to go somewhere where there’s a regular addition and removal of game.


Thanks again for the input!


Cheers!

 

[firehuntfish]

It seems to me that it is becoming an understanding that most of South Africa is put and take. This is certainly NOT the case. There are some excellent, massive areas in South Africa with self sustaining herd of animals to be hunted.
Simply do your research and you will be treated to a great hunting experience.

Thank you for beating me to it...