High end bolt vs low end double

[JG26Irish_2]

I love doubles for what they are: A worthy piece of firearm history. But nobody much hunts Rhino anymore except with a tranc rifle and so, unless you are hunting large bull elephant at 20y or are a PH who is regularly having to track down wounded Cape Buffalo, the double is a nice to have and not a need to have. If you have the means and want one, by all means, go for it. I do not need one but still like them and have off and on considered one. My best shotgun is a 12ga SxS double with dbl trigger and is a peach.

But, I am a precision marksmanship snob. If my rifle cannot place three shots inside of 1" at 100y, I consider it unworthy of my time. And, really the good one are closer to 3/4" or 1/2" at 100y. Not many iron sight doubles are going to shoot like that nor do they really need to but there are a lot of them that cannot group 2" at 50y either.

My best DG rifle is able to regularly place all of its shots within a 1" circle at 100y and shoot ridiculously well at longer ranges as well all with factory ammo and only a 1-6x scope.

 

[Tanks]

Not many iron sight doubles are going to shoot like that nor do they really need to but there are a lot of them that cannot group 2" at 50y either.

Heym, VC and Rigby will guarantee at minimum 2" at 50 meters and will keep regulating the rifle until it can do that or better. My Heym will have the two rounds touching at 50 meters.

 

[festuscat]

I love doubles for what they are: A worthy piece of firearm history. But nobody much hunts Rhino anymore except with a tranc rifle and so, unless you are hunting large bull elephant at 20y or are a PH who is regularly having to track down wounded Cape Buffalo, the double is a nice to have and not a need to have. If you have the means and want one, by all means, go for it. I do not need one but still like them and have off and on considered one. My best shotgun is a 12ga SxS double with dbl trigger and is a peach.

But, I am a precision marksmanship snob. If my rifle cannot place three shots inside of 1" at 100y, I consider it unworthy of my time. And, really the good one are closer to 3/4" or 1/2" at 100y. Not many iron sight doubles are going to shoot like that nor do they really need to but there are a lot of them that cannot group 2" at 50y either.

My best DG rifle is able to regularly place all of its shots within a 1" circle at 100y and shoot ridiculously well at longer ranges as well all with factory ammo and only a 1-6x scope.

I have Rigby dbl rifle 500 NE that is very accurate at 25 yards and good out to100.
To each his own. I have bolt action rifles for Africa too, but I like and trust this rifle

Here’s a tgt from a big bore competition a few years back. Gun shot well and I didn’t suck as bad as I thought. The target pictures need to be rotated 90degrees cw
I never stood next to someone w/ a muzzle break but I understand why everyone one not behind the rifle winces a bit

 

[RIGBY]

I have Rigby dbl rifle 500 NE that is very accurate at 25 yards and good out to100.
To each his own. I have bolt action rifles for Africa too, but I like and trust this rifle

Here’s a tgt from a big bore competition a few years back. Gun shot well and I didn’t suck as bad as I thought. The target pictures need to be rotated 90degrees cw
I never stood next to someone w/ a muzzle break but I understand why everyone one not behind the rifle winces a bit

Beautiful rifle, and nice shooting! What year was it made?

 

[festuscat]

Beautiful rifle, and nice shooting! What year was it made?

It was made in Pasa Robles, California. It was just after Rigby left London.
I took possession of the rifle early 2001. I was a bit involved with the build. James Tucker & Reto Reto Buehler were 2 of the gunsmiths ion the build.

It regulates w/ 107 gn RE19, but shoots factory Norma well, and we reload and shoot a lot of reduced loads of 45 gn AA5744. Even my niece shoots full loads and she weighs 125 or so.

I will say that I have the rifle set up more like an Olympic trap gun, in that the gun shoots where I look with the front bead in the periphery rather than aiming it traditionally. The front site.bead is on the blade several mm above the base- that linesup with the read sight with the blade and bead standing above it ( I am probably confusing the description). Where the bead is, the bullet impacts.
No 6 o’clock hold etc. also I encourage everyone shooting it to shoot the R then L barrels, watching the target and not the end of the gun.

We all shoot several times a week, practice reloading, slow is smooth , smooth is fast.
I am fortunate that I live in a place where we can shoot and practice.

It’s tough w/ big bores to go to a range - anyway, too long winded but just wanted to let you know we do things and hope it helps if it makes sense.

I go to the UK and London, and my last trip I wanted to make an appointment to come see y’all.

Congratulations on continuing the Rigby name - it appears to be in excellent hands.
Fair winds and following seas.

Jack

 

[RIGBY]

It was made in Pasa Robles, California. It was just after Rigby left London.
I took possession of the rifle early 2001. I was a bit involved with the build. James Tucker & Reto Reto Buehler were 2 of the gunsmiths ion the build.

It regulates w/ 107 gn RE19, but shoots factory Norma well, and we reload and shoot a lot of reduced loads of 45 gn AA5744. Even my niece shoots full loads and she weighs 125 or so.

I will say that I have the rifle set up more like an Olympic trap gun, in that the gun shoots where I look with the front bead in the periphery rather than aiming it traditionally. The front site.bead is on the blade several mm above the base- that linesup with the read sight with the blade and bead standing above it ( I am probably confusing the description). Where the bead is, the bullet impacts.
No 6 o’clock hold etc. also I encourage everyone shooting it to shoot the R then L barrels, watching the target and not the end of the gun.

We all shoot several times a week, practice reloading, slow is smooth , smooth is fast.
I am fortunate that I live in a place where we can shoot and practice.

It’s tough w/ big bores to go to a range - anyway, too long winded but just wanted to let you know we do things and hope it helps if it makes sense.

I go to the UK and London, and my last trip I wanted to make an appointment to come see y’all.

Congratulations on continuing the Rigby name - it appears to be in excellent hands.
Fair winds and following seas.

Jack

Thank you for all the details – it certainly appears that the rifle is in good hands! Thank you also for the kind words about the team - they are very talented and work very hard.

We would love to see you at the London store. Don’t hesitate to reach out when you plan to be there next and I can connect you with someone that can give you a tour of the workshop and the store. Cheers!

 

[Houston Bill]

For me the is no question I prefer the double rifle I have 2 of them now and a 3rd, Rigby Shikari, on the way. I have what most would consider a low end double in 470 Nitro that shoots better than 1 MOA at 50 yards and my Heym 450/400, which I purchased for under $10k also shoots 1 MOA at 50 yards. I have hunted dangerous game and plains game with my doubles and shot plains game out to 125 yards. I have Trijicon red dots on all my doubles. So for me the double is quintessential Africana and I prefer to hunt with a double.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

For me the is no question I prefer the double rifle I have 2 of them now and a 3rd, Rigby Shikari, on the way. I have what most would consider a low end double in 470 Nitro that shoots better than 1 MOA at 50 yards and my Heym 450/400, which I purchased for under $10k also shoots 1 MOA at 50 yards. I have hunted dangerous game and plains game with my doubles and shot plains game out to 125 yards. I have Trijicon red dots on all my doubles. So for me the double is quintessential Africana and I prefer to hunt with a double.

The double is absolutely the quintessential Africana rifle. Any that will consistently print 1/2" groups (1 moa) for 3 shots (or 4) at 50y is impressive and good enough any anyone's book. But, to be regulated that close at 50y means the bullets are going to be diverging out beyond that range. Probably not enough to matter until out past 100y which should be further than most will want to shoot them on game. Sadly, the ones I have encountered are grouping closer to the example that festuscat posted which was four shots that all hit a paper dinner plate or ~4-5" at 50y (I am guessing it was 50y?)

They are great but are still an archaic tool that is more classic traditional than state of the art today. Think about why doubles came into existence in the first place. They were muzzle loading black powder hunting rifles that gave the hunter two shots on game instead of one. Then when cartridge ammo came about they evolved into the guns we see today, first as black powder cartridge rifles and then Nitro powder cartridge rifles. But, much of their "Raison d'être" no longer exists today since modern repeating rifles were invented. As always we are entitled to our own opinions and mine does nothing to detract from the classic African lure of the big nitro double.

I get it. I like to fish only with a fly fishing rig and only with dry flies. It means I will not catch as many fish, but the ones I do catch are most rewarding. It is the same, I expect for most double owners. Again the elephant hunters and PH's excepted since the double remains a state of the art weapon for those two specific cases.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The double is absolutely the quintessential Africana rifle. Any that will consistently print 1/2" groups (1 moa) for 3 shots (or 4) at 50y is impressive and good enough any anyone's book. But, to be regulated that close at 50y means the bullets are going to be diverging out beyond that range. Probably not enough to matter until out past 100y which should be further than most will want to shoot them on game. Sadly, the ones I have encountered are grouping closer to the example that festuscat posted which was four shots that all hit a paper dinner plate or ~4-5" at 50y (I am guessing it was 50y?)

They are great but are still an archaic tool that is more classic traditional than state of the art today. Think about why doubles came into existence in the first place. They were muzzle loading black powder hunting rifles that gave the hunter two shots on game instead of one. Then when cartridge ammo came about they evolved into the guns we see today, first as black powder cartridge rifles and then Nitro powder cartridge rifles. But, much of their "Raison d'être" no longer exists today since modern repeating rifles were invented. As always we are entitled to our own opinions and mine does nothing to detract from the classic African lure of the big nitro double.

I get it. I like to fish only with a fly fishing rig and only with dry flies. It means I will not catch as many fish, but the ones I do catch are most rewarding. It is the same, I expect for most double owners. Again the elephant hunters and PH's excepted since the double remains a state of the art weapon for those two specific cases.

I agree. Quintessential Africana only washes so deep on me ... not much more than skin depth. Gotta admit a Trijicon red dot sitting on top of a double rifle seems to be an oxymoron re quitessential Africana.

Fly fishing has the added advantage of increasing the odds dramatically for successful catch and release, even with barbed hooks. Classic style with peak conservation. What's not to like? And, depending on species and environmental conditions, I can often catch more on flies than others using bait or lures.

 

[Tanks]

agree. Quintessential Africana only washes so deep on me ... not much more than skin depth. Gotta admit a Trijicon red dot sitting on top of a double rifle seems to be an oxymoron re quitessential Africana.

Well, when I was charged by an elephant I had a bolt gun, a .500 MDM, it did the job. But if I had needed a second shot, I wouldn’t have had the time. Having the faster second shot is my main reason for using a double.

Plus they look and feel great.

 

[ftrovato]

I agree. Quintessential Africana only washes so deep on me ... not much more than skin depth. Gotta admit a Trijicon red dot sitting on top of a double rifle seems to be an oxymoron re quitessential Africana.

Fly fishing has the added advantage of increasing the odds dramatically for successful catch and release, even with barbed hooks. Classic style with peak conservation. What's not to like? And, depending on species and environmental conditions, I can often catch more on flies than others using bait or lures.

My old eyes lead to compromises to continue traditional quests.

Red dots help me do half as well as what I did 10 years ago without them. I have several on my semi-auto pistols and double rifle.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Heym, VC and Rigby will guarantee at minimum 2" at 50 meters and will keep regulating the rifle until it can do that or better. My Heym will have the two rounds touching at 50 meters.

Mine too.

 

[Houston Bill]

The double is absolutely the quintessential Africana rifle. Any that will consistently print 1/2" groups (1 moa) for 3 shots (or 4) at 50y is impressive and good enough any anyone's book. But, to be regulated that close at 50y means the bullets are going to be diverging out beyond that range. Probably not enough to matter until out past 100y which should be further than most will want to shoot them on game. Sadly, the ones I have encountered are grouping closer to the example that festuscat posted which was four shots that all hit a paper dinner plate or ~4-5" at 50y (I am guessing it was 50y?)

They are great but are still an archaic tool that is more classic traditional than state of the art today. Think about why doubles came into existence in the first place. They were muzzle loading black powder hunting rifles that gave the hunter two shots on game instead of one. Then when cartridge ammo came about they evolved into the guns we see today, first as black powder cartridge rifles and then Nitro powder cartridge rifles. But, much of their "Raison d'être" no longer exists today since modern repeating rifles were invented. As always we are entitled to our own opinions and mine does nothing to detract from the classic African lure of the big nitro double.

I get it. I like to fish only with a fly fishing rig and only with dry flies. It means I will not catch as many fish, but the ones I do catch are most rewarding. It is the same, I expect for most double owners. Again the elephant hunters and PH's excepted since the double remains a state of the art weapon for those two specific cases.

My regulation is at 50 yards, off a modified lead sled and my doubles have Trijicon red dots on them. When I was writing my post I was thinking 1" groups at 50 yards which you correctly pointed out is really 2 MOA. The 1st target below is my Rizzini 470 NE after it came back from JJ Perodeux. The red bullseye is 1" in diameter. The 2 holes touching on top are the right barrel/left barrel for the Hornady DGX bullets and the 2 holes below are the DGS bullets. Rifle is regulated to the Hornady ammo. So not only is it an accurate double it shoots the softs and the solids close to the same point of impact. The DGX group is about 1 MOA and the rifle is consistently 2 MOA or better.

The second target is my Heym 450/400. The target is from when I was sighting in this rifle for my recent trip to SA. The first two shots are right barrel/left barrel and are a bit high and left of the bullseye. I adjusted my Trijicon sight and the next 2 shots are in the bullseye and touching the edge of the bullseye. Group looks to be about 1.5 MOA

I normally like to keep shots on game with my doubles at 50 - 60 yards or less. On my trip to SA last month I shot a cull wildebeest at 123 yards, my PH thought it was about 60 to 70 yards. He was a great PH, not disparaging him in any way, but I did give him shit for his distance estimation! From a left to right perspective the shot went right where I aimed (point of the shoulder on a strong quartering to angle). It was about 3" or so low because I did not account for a drop thinking the shot was 60 or 70 yards. So on this particular occasion I did not have a lot of left /right diverging out to 123 yards. Typically I don't practice with my double at that distance, perhaps I should to understand better what the divergence might be.

I certainly hope my Rigby Shikari will shoot as well as these 2 doubles!

 

[mdwest]

For me the is no question I prefer the double rifle I have 2 of them now and a 3rd, Rigby Shikari, on the way. I have what most would consider a low end double in 470 Nitro that shoots better than 1 MOA at 50 yards and my Heym 450/400, which I purchased for under $10k also shoots 1 MOA at 50 yards. I have hunted dangerous game and plains game with my doubles and shot plains game out to 125 yards. I have Trijicon red dots on all my doubles. So for me the double is quintessential Africana and I prefer to hunt with a double.

Ive seen and handled the Hyem... at under $10K @Houston Bill stole that rifle.. Even after its been hunted, its in nearly perfect condition.. based on the animals he took with it (the distances shot, the species, etc) its clearly a tack driver as far as doubles go.. I can absolutely see the appeal in hunting with that particular double..

 

[Houston Bill]

My old eyes lead to compromises to continue traditional quests.

Red dots help me do half as well as what I did 10 years ago without them. I have several on my semi-auto pistols and double rifle.

I agree. Wish I could still hunt safely with iron sights but sadly I am consistenly more accurate and faster to acquire the target and shoot with the red dot.

 

[SStomcat]

Heym, VC and Rigby will guarantee at minimum 2" at 50 meters and will keep regulating the rifle until it can do that or better. My Heym will have the two rounds touching at 50 meters.

And if I may add my Krieghoff big 5