Help me travel to Africa - Advice and Rules please

[rookhawk]

First, I did read the travel info on this site so I have some baseline but it opens up more questions.

1.) I'm traveling from Chicago to Bulawayo, Zim. It appears I can avoid overnight in South Africa if I take the flight from JFK in NYC direct to Jo'burg and then catch the SAA leg to Bulawayo 2.5 hours or so later. I've heard from a few to NEVER fly with guns and try to get out of NYC. True? In this scenario I'd have to overnight in NYC with my guns which I'm not sure how I'd do that.

2.) With the new rules for leaving the USA with guns, how much lead time do I need and how do I get my guns out of this country with me on a flight? If i fly Chicago to NYC do I have to get some sort of customs work done in NYC instead of Chicago?

3.) Gun limits. Safari folks are pretty vague on this. I have two rifles for safari but I'd like to bring a third, a shotgun. Can I traverse South Africa with 2 rifles and 1 shotgun? Can I stay overnight in South Africa if I must with the aforementioned 3 weapons or is that a different problem? Do I just leave the shotgun at home and borrow an ill fitting scatter gun from the PH?

The other options for travel would be to fly from chicago to Atlanta and then take delta to Jo'Burg and SAA to Zimbabwe a day later leaving me to figure out how to store guns in Jo'Burg for the night.

Please advise. Thanks!

P.S. - Really concerned about timelines for getting permits to move guns. Any advice on timing required is appreciated because I'll be traveling in the next 2-3 months.

 

[BRICKBURN]

An AH Sponsor that has a service to store your guns in transit in Joburg.
So over night is a lot easier.

http://www.riflepermits.com

 

[johnnyblues]

I live in NY and travel and always start at JFK with my guns. I have never had any Airport police give me any sort of hard time at all. Give your self at least 3 hours at JFK as once you get to the check in counter the agent will call PD to inspect and take your info. From there they will take you to TSA for one more inspection, remember to pack your ammo in your checked baggage and remove the bolt from you rifle and pack it in the gun case. You will need to get a 4457 form from customs which I suggest you get at home before flying to JFK. There has been a lot of discussion here about additional paper work needed to leave the country with firearms. I have hired SSI to handle my trophy importation and they are providing the additional paper work now needed free of charge to there clients. Remember if you are going to overnight in Joberg you will need to get a rifle import permit from the SA police which is easily downloaded on quite a few sites, then I suggest you hire one of the many permit assistance services available to expedite to permit.

If you don't hire them ahead of time you may have quite a wait in Joberg from what I understand. If you are traveling in the next 2-3 months you had better get going.

 

[PeteG]

might be best to give yourself more than 2.5hrs between your flight landing in jhb and the next departure to bulawayo.

if the shotgun is a pump action or semi auto, its not allowed. i think there is a limit of 2 firearms though, so doubt you'd be able to take 2 rifles + 1 shotgun.

 

[BRICKBURN]

......
if the shotgun is a pump action or semi auto, its not allowed. i think there is a limit of 2 firearms though, so doubt you'd be able to take 2 rifles + 1 shotgun.

You can bring more than two rifles into RSA. They limit the number per caliber, but there are exceptions.
(I'd personally have to give my head a shake as to why I would bring more than two.)


I was considering bringing a shotgun along on this next trip. But, for the hassle and the very little shooting I'll be doing with it. It is not worth the effort. If I were on a bird hunt and shooting for days, I'd bring my own shotgun.

Apparently, under very specific conditions/motivations you can get into RSA with the Pump and Semi Auto. I do not think the permitting headache for a transit would be worth while though.


Latest flash from SAPS on the subject of firearms import:

http://www.saps.gov.za/services/flash/firearms/importation.php

 

[Royal27]

if the shotgun is a pump action or semi auto, its not allowed.

I don't believe this is correct. I took a semi-auto shotgun to Zim last August and overnighted in Joberg. There was no issue, although I did do a "letter of motivation" and had my permits pre-approved to be safe.

 

[Royal27]

Apparently, under very specific conditions/motivations you can get into RSA with the Pump and Semi Auto. I do not think the permitting headache for a transit would be worth while though.

It really wasn't an issue, at least for me.

 

[PeteG]

You can bring more than two rifles into RSA. They limit the number per caliber, but there are exceptions.
(I'd personally have to give my head a shake as to why I would bring more than two.)


I was considering bringing a shotgun along on this next trip. But, for the hassle and the very little shooting I'll be doing with it. It is not worth the effort. If I were on a bird hunt and shooting for days, I'd bring my own shotgun.

Apparently, under very specific conditions/motivations you can get into RSA with the Pump and Semi Auto. I do not think the permitting headache for a transit would be worth while though.


Latest flash from SAPS on the subject of firearms import:

http://www.saps.gov.za/services/flash/firearms/importation.php

just repeating what was in an article i came across

" There is a limit of two firearms per hunter that may be imported into South Africa for trophy hunting purposes, however hunters cannot bring in more than one firearm per caliber. An exception to this may apply for shotguns where more than one of the same caliber may be allowed for bird hunting. The client must provide an acceptable written motivation as to why they require more than one shotgun to the SAPS office upon declaration of firearms."

Royal, you are right, "under motivation..." i missed that part too late in the day for me, i should be banned from the forum after hours!

 

[johnnyblues]

First, I did read the travel info on this site so I have some baseline but it opens up more questions.

1.) I'm traveling from Chicago to Bulawayo, Zim. It appears I can avoid overnight in South Africa if I take the flight from JFK in NYC direct to Jo'burg and then catch the SAA leg to Bulawayo 2.5 hours or so later. I've heard from a few to NEVER fly with guns and try to get out of NYC. True? In this scenario I'd have to overnight in NYC with my guns which I'm not sure how I'd do that.

2.) With the new rules for leaving the USA with guns, how much lead time do I need and how do I get my guns out of this country with me on a flight? If i fly Chicago to NYC do I have to get some sort of customs work done in NYC instead of Chicago?

3.) Gun limits. Safari folks are pretty vague on this. I have two rifles for safari but I'd like to bring a third, a shotgun. Can I traverse South Africa with 2 rifles and 1 shotgun? Can I stay overnight in South Africa if I must with the aforementioned 3 weapons or is that a different problem? Do I just leave the shotgun at home and borrow an ill fitting scatter gun from the PH?

The other options for travel would be to fly from chicago to Atlanta and then take delta to Jo'Burg and SAA to Zimbabwe a day later leaving me to figure out how to store guns in Jo'Burg for the night.

Please advise. Thanks!

P.S. - Really concerned about timelines for getting permits to move guns. Any advice on timing required is appreciated because I'll be traveling in the next 2-3 months.

Remember you don't need the permit from the SA police if your not overnighting in SA, as long as your flying with SAA all the way they will just transfer your baggage to your next flight. I m flying to Namibia on SAA from JFK in September, landing in Joberg and connecting to my next SAA flight. I will bring the completed SAP form with me in the event I get stuck in Joberg, but my understanding is if your not staying in SA you don't need the permit.

 

[rookhawk]

Okay, I spoke to a NYC FFL and the NYC police. If you fly into NYC and stay overnight, the second you leave the airport you are in violation of the law and subject to arrest.

Contrary to advice and "72 hour grace period for transfer rumors", there is no way to fly through NY with guns unless you want to spend 6 months getting their gun license.

So, I'll be flying out of Atlanta and will overnight in Jo'burg via Delta it appears.

Any answers to my other initial questions are welcome.

 

[BRICKBURN]

just repeating what was in an article i came across

" There is a limit of two firearms per hunter that may be imported into South Africa for trophy hunting purposes, however hunters cannot bring in more than one firearm per caliber. An exception to this may apply for shotguns where more than one of the same caliber may be allowed for bird hunting. The client must provide an acceptable written motivation as to why they require more than one shotgun to the SAPS office upon declaration of firearms."

Royal, you are right, "under motivation..." i missed that part too late in the day for me, i should be banned from the forum after hours!

Pete what's the source. I'd like to read it. Thx.

 

[johnnyblues]

Okay, I spoke to a NYC FFL and the NYC police. If you fly into NYC and stay overnight, the second you leave the airport you are in violation of the law and subject to arrest.

Contrary to advice and "72 hour grace period for transfer rumors", there is no way to fly through NY with guns unless you want to spend 6 months getting their gun license.

So, I'll be flying out of Atlanta and will overnight in Jo'burg via Delta it appears.

Any answers to my other initial questions are welcome.

I strongly believe you have been given the wrong information. Firstly where I live I New York I don't need a license to buy a rifle or shotgun. I just need as everyone else does to pass the background check. If for some reason you miss your flight what do you do then if you need to overnight? From my experience and I have been flying out of JFK to hunt since 1976 I have never had a port authority police officer question me in any way about my hunting rifles other than to say where you going to hunt? I find it hard to believe with all the hunters traveling through New York no one has had to not overnight for whatever reason. I plan on moving to the greater Atlanta area in three years and intend to overnight in NY when flying to Africa to have dinner with family/ friends while here. Of course do what you are comfortable with might not be a bad idea to check further. I have found a lot of agencies don't know what they are talking about at times.

 

[rookhawk]

The issue is New York city law. Your example only stated New York State requirements.

NYC is not a joking matter. If you leave the airport, you are in a bad way. NYS and Federal law gives you no immunity from city rule.

 

[johnnyblues]

The issue is New York city law. Your example only stated New York State requirements.

NYC is not a joking matter. If you leave the airport, you are in a bad way. NYS and Federal law gives you no immunity from city rule.

Again, I have lived here my whole life and I think you were given the wrong info, as I said somewhere along the line someone has had to overnight in NY due to a flight cancellation or whatever. If you feel you want to overnight in NY maybe the airline can keep the gun for safe keeping until you recheck in. Or if you are using a NY based importer for your trophies see what info he may be able to provide.

 

[rookhawk]

I cited my source. Everyone else has given me what they "think". Please cite a legal document that says you can visit NYC with a gun.

 

[johnnyblues]

Just trying to help. Good luck.

 

[rookhawk]

An uncited opinion without any facts does no one any good.

I get arrested, I lose my livelihood and everything I've worked for my entire life. So getting cuffed by NYPD because of a layover with a single shot rifle isn't in the cards.

I'd like to believe you but I'd like a source of info that I can show the judge, not just say a guy on the Internet said I'd be fine.

No insult intended.

 

[johnnyblues]

Good luck on your safari. I've given you several suggestions the same I would give a lifelong friend.

 

[rookhawk]

I understand you mean well. But let me emphasize you gave two reasons to believe you:

1.) you "think"
2.) you lived in the State of NY your whole life

I hope you can appreciate the fact I would lose my livlihood if I was ever arrested and convicted. I was respectively asking for more than the two basis of your opinion. The travel agent on this site also stated similar info, she thinks and its been fine previously. She too could not give me any documentation to support that.

So NYPD says they'll arrest me and a NY FFL says I will be in violation, and two other people say it'll be just fine.

Wouldnt a chapter and verse of a law be the deciding factor here? Anyone have it?

 

[johnnyblues]

Again what I would do is ask the hundreds of members the specific question " has anyone had to overnight in NY with a rifle". That would be an interesting thread to start and I think you would be asking a question that may be on others minds. I certainly appreciate your concern and rightfully so, as I said I will be moving in several years and would like to know myself. As suggested maybe you could ask a local trophy import agent such as fauna/Flora or I would ask SSI who I will be using for my hunt as they are hunters themselves. Maybe they will know maybe not. They are nice folks to call and I am quite sure they would be happy to give you any info they may have.