Explora/Paradox

[Alexandro Faria]

Good Morning, Gun nuts!

Is there, by any chance, anyone here that hunts/shoots with either an Explora(Westley Richards) or a Paradox(H&H)? Or perhaps someone that has any experience or would like to share their opinions? I would just like to know what you think of a either?

Kind regards,
Alex

 

[Red Leg]

I have had a William Evans Paradox for about ten years and I think it is an absolutely amazing thing. With loads built by Ross Seyfried it will shoot a three to four inch composite 4 shot group (LxR/LxR) at 100 yards. That is with open sights. If either of us could see better, I think the rounds would all touch. It shoots the new H&H ammo into about six-inches at the same range. The gun also shoots perfect "modified" patterns from each bore. I took it to Africa once and shot sand grouse and rolled two warthog at the same waterhole. This gun, a 1 1/8 ounce proofed A&D box lock, was built right before the First World War, and soon after H&H's patent expired so Evans named it a Paradox. Simply an amazing thing.

Should you be looking at an older one make sure that the rifling is still present. It is difficult to see, and many had it criminally bored out by shade tree gun smiths to turn the gun into a shotgun. I saw a Westley Richards that had been so ruined within the last year.

 

[CAustin]

Red Leg could you post a picture of the gun your speaking of?

 

[sierraone]

Champlin has a H&H paradox for sale.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=30&ctl=GunsDetails&mid=409&StyleID=3&GunID=2789

 

[CAustin]

Beautiful gun!

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Sr. Faria,

I have no experience with any real "Paradox Gun".
However, I have always wanted one (I also want a "Cape Gun" - one rifle barrel and one shotgun barrel, two triggers).
This has led me to modify more than one inexpensive shotgun for shooting slugs.

Before I decided to save up enough money for a real double rifle, I had entertained the idea of asking JJ Peredeau if he might be interested in putting proper express sights onto a double shotgun, cutting off the choke end of the barrels to about 26 inches and regulating same for Brenneke slugs.
I never called him on this idea but if he would have been interested in doing so, I suspect all told, his labor and parts might have come to $1500. or more.
Then, add in the price of an appropriately sturdy shotgun to begin with (Simpson, JP Sauer, etc., with 3 bites) and I expect I would have been in it for about $4000. or so.
Now, I have seen something like this idea already all set up and for sale at: Double Gun Head Quarters (www.doublegunhq) ? or some similar web site.
It's called the "Bad Boy" or some silly name like that.

At any rate, I am with you on the Paradox Guns (Explora, etc.) as I think they could be a valid tool for the travelling hunter, especially where the antelope / hog hunting is in thick bush and bird hunting is also available in the same location.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[sierraone]

There is also a William Evans 20 bore paradox on the doublegunshop.com forum. I didn't post the link because it is a forum and may would go on for several pages.

 

[sierraone]

Hello Sr. Faria,

I have no experience with any real "Paradox Gun".
However, I have always wanted one (I also want a "Cape Gun" - one rifle barrel and one shotgun barrel, two triggers).
This has led me to modify more than one inexpensive shotgun for shooting slugs.

Before I decided to save up enough money for a real double rifle, I had entertained the idea of asking JJ Peredeau if he might be interested in putting proper express sights onto a double shotgun, cutting off the choke end of the barrels to about 26 inches and regulating same for Brenneke slugs.
I never called him on this idea but if he would have been interested in doing so, I suspect all told, his labor and parts might have come to $1500. or more.
Then, add in the price of an appropriately sturdy shotgun to begin with (Simpson, JP Sauer, etc., with 3 bites) and I expect I would have been in it for about $4000. or so.
Now, I have seen something like this idea already all set up and for sale at: Double Gun Head Quarters (www.doublegunhq) ? or some similar web site.
It's called the "Bad Boy" or some silly name like that.

At any rate, I am with you on the Paradox Guns (Explora, etc.) as I think they could be a valid tool for the travelling hunter, especially where the antelope / hog hunting is in thick bush and bird hunting is also available in the same location.

I agree with that it would be an interesting gun to own and shoot. I didn't see what the William Evans cost, but the H&H at Champlin was $36000. So it's safe to say that a paradox gun will not be high on my gun bucket list any time soon. But would be fun!!!!

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[Red Leg]

Will try to take a photo sometime today.

Connecticut Shotgun builds the gun of your dreams Velo. It is a 20 b0re on their RBL action. http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/product/rbl-20-professional-20ga-sabot-slug-gun-24/ Comes with a detachable scope. Not exactly cheap at over 7k, but I bet it would be a classy little deer gun in shotgun only areas like Eastern Maryland.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Champlin has a H&H paradox for sale.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=30&ctl=GunsDetails&mid=409&StyleID=3&GunID=2789

View attachment 108848

Somethink beautiful.
Witold

 

[Velo Dog]

Will try to take a photo sometime today.

Connecticut Shotgun builds the gun of your dreams Velo. It is a 20 b0re on their RBL action. http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/product/rbl-20-professional-20ga-sabot-slug-gun-24/ Comes with a detachable scope. Not exactly cheap at over 7k, but I bet it would be a classy little deer gun in shotgun only areas like Eastern Maryland.

Hi Red Leg,

Yes that is the kind of thing I once was interested in but, a huge part of my motivation then was to avoid the high price of a double rifle, as much or more than it was to have a multi-purpose firearm.
That one is a bit spendy and I would want a 12 gauge, but it looks like a fine firearm nonetheless.

The one I have actually been tempted to buy (but not quite persuaded in these declining oil revenue times) is a 12 bore, listed on www.gunsinternational.com.
Scroll down to: "Ball and Shot Guns".
There you will see it for sale by doublegunhq and priced around $2200.
It has 26" ejector barrels, quarter rib, express sights, double triggers and all.
The barrels are smooth bore but my personal experiences with Brenneke shotgun slugs is that they are surprisingly accurate from a true cylinder bore.

That is the only thing I would want different on the one I mentioned (it has some choke in the muzzles, however slight it may be).
The good news is that, provided there is adequate barrel wall thickness, any proper Gunsmith can easily sand out fixed choking to the preferred true cylinder.
I have done this myself with more than one el cheapo shotgun.
(IMO, chokes are unnecessary for most game bird hunting anyway and it virtually always improves accuracy when shooting slugs as well).

Well any way, as everyone knows (even me eventually), any multi-purpose tool is just sort of OK at several things but, not especially great at the one thing you probably need it to do the most, when you're far away from home.
Even so, I still feel such a firearm would work fairly well in Africa, as long as one did not try to use it on the heavier ones among the dangerous 7.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Red Leg]

The Henry Atkin is intriguing. The mold looks to be standard paradox. And of course it has the rifle sights. And not a word about rifling ......... It is also about 3k more than I would pay even with perfect rifling.

 

[Alexandro Faria]

Thanks for the replies! @Red Leg , do you enjoy it for wingshooting?

 

[Red Leg]

Thanks for the replies! @Red Leg , do you enjoy it for wingshooting?

Absolutely. The rear sights lie flat and so it is like using a normal game gun. As I noted above it shoots very uniform modified patterns from each barrel. I shoot it at the clays course occasionally, and it is always good for a conversation.

 

[Alexandro Faria]

Lekker, thank you. Do you only use paradox ammo or do you ever use other slugs?

 

[Alexandro Faria]

@Velo Dog , I'm considering something very similar. Thing is, most slugs I have found are rifled, shooting rifled slugs through a rifled barrel seems counter productive to me (the bore cutting into the lead would, in my mind, have a negative impact on accuracy?), also, wouldn't birdshot damage a rifled shotgun barrel? I'm not saying I'm correct, these are questions I have on the matter.

 

[Red Leg]

@Velo Dog , I'm considering something very similar. Thing is, most slugs I have found are rifled, shooting rifled slugs through a rifled barrel seems counter productive to me (the bore cutting into the lead would, in my mind, have a negative impact on accuracy?), also, wouldn't birdshot damage a rifled shotgun barrel? I'm not saying I'm correct, these are questions I have on the matter.

Birdshot will not work in a modern rifled slug barrel. There is no damage involved, but the patterns are extremely uneven - typically huge holes in the middle. Modern rifled slug barrels are designed to use sabot slugs. The plastic sabot is what grips the riffling imparting spin.

Interestingly, the "rifling" on a rifled slug is in part of a very old sales gimmick by Wilhelm Brenneke himself. The spiral grooves on his slugs could just as easily been straight for they impart no spin whatsoever, but by being "rifled" they implied more accuracy. What they did do was act as a compression mechanism to allow the slug to safely pass through full choke bores. What made his slugs more accurate than a round ball was their weight forward design. Most American slug designs patterned themselves after the original "rifled" concept, though most were not weight forward designs and hence, were not typically as accurate as Brenneke's with their attached felt wad.

The paradox rifled bore was created as a refined alternative to slugs - a partially rifled bore that would throw good shot patterns while also being as accurate as a true double rifle. It is part of the brilliance of the geniuses (particularly Vincent Fosbery) who created these amazing guns more than a century ago.

 

[Velo Dog]

@Velo Dog , I'm considering something very similar. Thing is, most slugs I have found are rifled, shooting rifled slugs through a rifled barrel seems counter productive to me (the bore cutting into the lead would, in my mind, have a negative impact on accuracy?), also, wouldn't birdshot damage a rifled shotgun barrel? I'm not saying I'm correct, these are questions I have on the matter.

Hello again Alexandro,

Red Leg said it all.
He wrote very well into 3 paragraphs what would have taken me 3 awkward pages.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[sierraone]

Hello again Alexandro,

Red Leg said it all.
He wrote very well into 3 paragraphs what would have taken me 3 awkward pages.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Agreed, Red Leg not only has an answer to most gun related questions, he usually either owns or has owned one of whatever the subject gun is!!! Among you, Red Leg and Cal Pappas, I think we have it all covered. No need to use Google on this forum!!! We already have it!!!

 

[Red Leg]

Hello again Alexandro,

Red Leg said it all.
He wrote very well into 3 paragraphs what would have taken me 3 awkward pages.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

But yours will be a lot more fun to read.