Dangerous Game Follow Up - Client and Professional Hunter roles?

[Nhoro]

Hi All, Touchy subject-Please don't lay into PH's or clients, but how do you guys see the roles of client and PH in a wounded dangerous game animal follow up?

My thoughts are that a clients role is to finish what he started. He should stand beside the PH and attempt to kill the animal as fast as possible. However, he needs to respect the PH should be in control of the follow up and follow his instructions.

PH- He is responsible to ensure the animal is put out of its misery as quickly as possible. He has the experience and knowledge to position his client in the safest position while still being able to safely take shots. Usually a PH will take any shots presented to him as they appear.

You here of PH's telling clients to wait in the car or clients refusing to let the PH shoot their animal, I guess I am just trying to find middle ground. What do you guys think ?

 

[450/400]

Ultamatily the PH is responsible for the situation including all party’s safety, but I believe the client is responsible for what he has shot and should, given the opportunity by the PH, finish what he started.

 

[thriller]

The ph is responsible for the situation so listen to his advice do your job right the first shot and all will be good but in my opinion the ph has the final say as safety is his responsibility.

 

[Red Leg]

It depends ......... and that covers a broad range of considerations.

As @450/400 and @thriller correctly note, the situation may be the client's "fault," but it is the PH's responsibility to sort it out. That may or may not include giving the client a critical role of the follow up. He will weigh a number of considerations.

1) The animal - For instance, following up a likely wounded buffalo or leopard are two very different things. A buffalo may be more likely to kill someone, but the leopard will be much more likely to get through. Shooting a small murderous cat off of someone is very different from helping stop a buffalo.

2) The terrain - head high grass, or brush and thorn so thick one has to move it out of the way to check the time are very different from open savannah or woodland.

3) Time - Does the follow-up need to be completed quickly due to failing light, the client's schedule, etc.

4) The client - The potential other dangerous animal in any follow-up is the client. PH's typically have hard earned advanced degrees in in human psychology and in assessing clients. The last person a PH wants behind him and his tracker is an armed, excited or frightened client who has demonstrated less than competent firearm or stalking skills. Just in recent years, a rather well known Sportsman Channel host managed to drill his PH through the back with a .458 solid in Mozambique on a buffalo follow-up; a young PH in Zim had his arm taken off at the elbow by a client's .500; and young PH with whom I had hunted just a few weeks before, had half his right hand shot away by a client on a leopard follow-up.

Most PH's would prefer you to have the opportunity to finish what you started. But his primary responsibility is to get everyone back to camp safely. If you are included, take it as a vote of confidence, and never take the ensuing responsibility lightly.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

It depends ......... and that covers a broad range of considerations.

As @450/400 and @thriller correctly note, the situation may be the client's "fault," but it is the PH's responsibility to sort it out. That may or may not include giving the client a critical role of the follow up. He will weigh a number of considerations.

1) The animal - For instance, following up a likely wounded buffalo or leopard are two very different things. A buffalo may be more likely to kill someone, but the leopard will be much more likely to get through. Shooting a small murderous cat off of someone is very different from helping stop a buffalo.

2) The terrain - head high grass, or brush and thorn so thick one has to move it out of the way to check the time are very different from open savannah or woodland.

3) Time - Does the follow-up need to be completed quickly due to failing light, the client's schedule, etc.

4) The client - The potential other dangerous animal in any follow-up is the client. PH's typically have hard earned advanced degrees in in human psychology and in assessing clients. The last person a PH wants behind him and his tracker is an armed, excited or frightened client who has demonstrated less than competent firearm or stalking skills. Just in recent years, a rather well known Sportsman Channel host managed to drill his PH through the back with a .458 solid in Mozambique on a buffalo follow-up; a young PH in Zim had his arm taken off at the elbow by a client's .500; and young PH with whom I had hunted just a few weeks before, had half his right hand shot away by a client on a leopard follow-up.

Most PH's would prefer you to have the opportunity to finish what you started. But his primary responsibility is to get everyone back to camp safely. If you are included, take it as a vote of confidence, and never take the ensuing responsibility lightly.

Cannot fault this reply. Spot on.

Personally, I have had the situation following up on a Buff where a hunter was walking behind me with one up, safety off and finger on the trigger. After two quick glances behind me, I had to reprimand him twice for pointing the barrel at me.
The third time, I duly removed all the shells from the rifle's magazine and handed the rifle back to him. I can't be 100% focused on the danger ahead of me, when there is danger behind me.

To get back to the topic, I always try and let my hunter finish the animal off. I also explain to them that I have a thresh hold on the distance, and once that thresh hold is broken, all bets are off.

 

[Fred Gunner]

 

[ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS]

Redleg, I could not have said I better myself!
Just maybe add that if we ask a client to remain behind, do not take it personally. At this stage its about getting the animal down as efficiently as possible. And we may survive an animal attack, but a bullet is harder to survive... Luckily I have had to ask a client to remain behind very few times.

 

[Limcroma Safaris]

Good assessment and advice from all who have replied... The only thing I would add is the importance of communication between the client and the PH before, during, and after the hunt. When the plan is discussed beforehand the client needs to understand and agree that above all else, the safety of all present is the paramount priority. With that in mind, the client must also understand that "all bets are off" as Marius stated when things don't go as planned.

No reputable PH/outfitter wants to shoot the client's animal unless that is the only option left at the given moment. However, the client needs to understand that they hired the PH for his/her expertise and they must have complete trust in the judgement of the PH beforehand to make these split-second decisions.

 

[BeeMaa]

Listen to your PH, they know what they are doing.
More importantly they know what their client is capable of (both good and bad).
You have paid a lot of money to hunt DG and for their council.
Following up on wounded DG is not the time to be questioning their judgement.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Cannot fault this reply. Spot on.

Personally, I have had the situation following up on a Buff where a hunter was walking behind me with one up, safety off and finger on the trigger. After two quick glances behind me, I had to reprimand him twice for pointing the barrel at me.
The third time, I duly removed all the shells from the rifle's magazine and handed the rifle back to him. I can't be 100% focused on the danger ahead of me, when there is danger behind me.

To get back to the topic, I always try and let my hunter finish the animal off. I also explain to them that I have a thresh hold on the distance, and once that thresh hold is broken, all bets are off.

I would have unloaded the guys rifle after the first glance. What a prize plum sack. When you say you have a threshold on the distance is that how close we get to the animal? We all know Mr S likes em up close .

I think its down to the PH. Needless to say they will see people who can keep calm in a crappy situation and also those that freeze. As @Red Leg said the PH will suss out the client. I guess this starts at the zeroing range. But on a personal note I would want to finish what I have started. If then the PH feels I'm not up to it I would head back to the bukkie and have a few beers whilst calling myself all sorts of names

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

I can concur that the last thing a reputable PH wants to do is shoot his clients animal. We always tell our clients that we will only fire if someone’s life’s in danger or if there’s a strong possibility of a wounded animal escaping and they’re not in a position to shoot when required. From a clients perspective there’s only one thing worse than having your PH kill your animal - that’s losing a wounded animal never to be recovered. It happens from time to time - on dangerous game and on plains game. Although it’s always an awkward situation, I admire hunters who understand the old ethic that after wounding an animal ,ending an animals suffering or negating the danger is the primary goal. I’ve seen hunters beat up on themselves and go into sulk mode. It’s not pleasant to experience.

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Also wanted to add that I’ve seen numerous videos of PHs firing almost immediately after the client on DG hunts. That to me is totally unacceptable and unprofessional.

 

[Tanks]

... I also explain to them that I have a thresh hold on the distance, and once that thresh hold is broken, all bets are off.

10 feet on a buffalo per Mark Sullivan if I remember right.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

10 feet on a buffalo per Mark Sullivan if I remember right.

I don't have Mark Sullivan's cajones. 10-15 yards for me.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

When you say you have a threshold on the distance is that how close we get to the animal?

No, opposite. How close I allow the animals to get to us before firing a shot.

 

[Pondoro]

What Redleg said...and personally I would love the thrill of participating in such a follow up..

 

[norfolk shooter]

No, opposite. How close I allow the animals to get to us before firing a shot.

I'm with you 10-15 yards is plenty close for me too. Mind you because I'm so little the buff might think I'm far away

 

[cpr0312]

My philosophy is simple: always listen to the PH. Doesn't matter if your hunting Duiker, Pronghorn antelope, kudu, or elephant.

You paid them to help you fulfill your dream(s), so whatever they tell you, especially in a DG follow up situation, you listen.

 

[Nyati]

PH should take the decision if the animal charges.

On animals who turn back after being wounded, then I think this has to be settled before. I was present when a hunter asked his PH to shoot immediately after him at a buff, as his main concern was losing the animal and having to pay for it !

 

[edward]

My philosophy is simple: always listen to the PH. Doesn't matter if your hunting Duiker, Pronghorn antelope, kudu, or elephant.

You paid them to help you fulfill your dream(s), so whatever they tell you, especially in a DG follow up situation, you listen.

and OBEY!!!!