Cleaning rod or bore snake?

[Ontario Hunter]

On another forum I once had an interesting, albeit fruitless, discussion with a well-known gun editor re the proper method of cleaning rifle bores. His thread was pushing some muzzle protector gizmo. I asked him how could my aluminum cleaning rod be any more damaging to rifling at the crown than a copper clad lead bullet jammed through the bore at extremely high pressure? His answer was cleaning rods will damage the threads at the crown because ... he says they will. Then he proceeded to get nasty and closed the thread. Oh well. Recess is over.

A few years ago the retired gunsmith who introduced me to African hunting also introduced me to bore snakes. He gave me a "cheap Chinese knockoff" in a zip lock bag. He'd picked up a box of them at a gunshow somewhere and used them as promotions. It didn't seem to work well if used as directed but I quickly found a better way. Removing the rifle bolt, I always clean from the chamber towards the muzzle. This ensures all crud is pushed out of the gun and not left in the chamber (i.e. cleaning from muzzle end towards chamber). I cut strips of rag in appropriate sizes to compress tightly in the bore: about size of my middle finger for 404J and little finger for 30-06). Holding the rifle muzzle down, I drop the brass end of bore snake into chamber and down through the bore. Then I step on the brass end and start pulling the snake through as I lift the rifle upwards. Repeat step-and-pull till the loop end of bore snake is at open chamber. Place the piece of rag in the loop and step-and-pull till the rag is pulled all the way through the bore. The tighter the fit, the better it cleans. Solvent can be added to rag as needed. Repeat till no residue on the rags. Every so often I screw a small shotgun brush (usually 28 gauge) onto final length of three piece cleaning rod, lock the rod section into variable speed portable drill, and clean the chamber, usually before cleaning the bore.

Anyway, that's the way I do it. No need for gizmo crown protectors. And I get my barrels squeaky clean. Also, don't need to assemble and disassemble rods, brushes, etc.

 

[Neophyte]

I’ve never been a fan of bore snakes.

A shooter on the 1968 Olympic Team taught me how to clean my rifles and it seems to work well for me.

I recognize that things have changed and there is new technology but I believe that if it ain’t broke I shouldn’t try to “fix” it. I seldom clean my rifles, shooting lead core bullets, unless I get moisture in the barrel or accuracy starts to drop off.

I’ve noticed that the mono metal bullets prefer a clean barrel and only go about twenty or so rounds before accuracy starts to drop off.

 

[JimP]

The problem with bore snakes is that people don't clean them and you are dragging that old grime through your barrel.

I do pack one in my day pack just encase I need it.

The only rifles that I clean from the muzzle are my semi autos, and that is just a 22 Lr. All the rest are cleaned from the chamber.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The problem with bore snakes is that people don't clean them and you are dragging that old grime through your barrel.

I do pack one in my day pack just encase I need it.

The only rifles that I clean from the muzzle are my semi autos, and that is just a 22 Lr. All the rest are cleaned from the chamber.

I don't know why I couldn't just throw this bore snake in the washing machine to clean it if needed. Anyway, if I'm pulling it through with a clean rag in the loop on the end, the rag should pick up any possible grime deposited ahead of it by a dirty bore snake. A dirty cleaning rod, on the other hand, has to be pulled back through the bore after rag/patch falls off. Using my method, bore snake is a one way trip with all the cleaning at the end of the train.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I prefer a Tipton carbon fiber rod, pushed from breach to muzzle.
If I can’t access the breach end with a rod I use an Otis cable.
I have no use for bore snakes.

 

[JimP]

I don't know why I couldn't just throw this bore snake in the washing machine to clean it if needed. Anyway, if I'm pulling it through with a clean rag in the loop on the end, the rag should pick up any possible grime deposited ahead of it by a dirty bore snake. A dirty cleaning rod, on the other hand, has to be pulled back through the bore after rag/patch falls off. Using my method, bore snake is a one way trip with all the cleaning at the end of the train.

It's the dirt and grime on the cloth part of the snake that will cause wear over time even if it is followed by a clean patch.

 

[mark-hunter]

I think that on this forum, or anywhere else in the world, we can not find two gun owners to clean the guns in the same way. Cleaning of gun is ritual, developed individually.
I use both types of cleaning systems.

Bore snake, fast cleaning in the field during multy day hunting, esepcially in variable weather conditions. (I always prefer to remove powder residue from bore)
I take care that bore snake pass through the approximate center of the muzzle, not brushing and wearing out any side.

Cleaning rode.
This is for home use and proper cleaning. I prefer one piece cleaning rode (not 3 piece threaded types)
Cleaning rod must by plastic, or rubber coated.
Using all three types of brush on the rod, but copper wire brush not too often. Depending of the status of the bore and what chemicals I use.

In all cleaning procedures I never over-do-it. I just do what is necessary with minimum effort. Generally speaking I hate cleaning, but I do it every time.

 

[mdwest]

For my nicer rifles I use Dewey 1 piece rods with dewey accessories, etc... I dont know that its any better than some cheap screw together brass rod.. but I was taught a million years ago when I shot a very precise rifle for a living that Dewey was the gold standard, was better for the bore, etc..etc.. so thats what I went with and what I stayed with...

but truth be told, Ive used pretty much every implement known to man I think at this point... aluminum rods, brass rods, 1 piece rubber coated rods, bore snakes, etc...etc... 90% of the time if Im cleaning one of my "working" guns I just reach for whatever is closest and go with it..

 

[BeeMaa]

I think that on this forum, or anywhere else in the world, we can not find two gun owners to clean the guns in the same way. Cleaning of gun is ritual, developed individually.

Absolutely!

In all cleaning procedures I never over-do-it. I just do what is necessary with minimum effort. Generally speaking I hate cleaning, but I do it every time.

And again. I've seen more (military) rifles damaged from over cleaning than none at all. There is no need for white glove inspection clean...at least IMO.

The point is not to damage the origins of the rifling or the crown. Keep the bore snake or cleaning rod centered the best you can. If you can't, use a bore guide. Cleaning is always done from the chamber to the muzzle, never backwards. At least IMO.

I use a (clean) bore snake daily in the field for both shotguns and rifles. This is also the case with normal range sessions, just a bore snake with CLP and done. Maybe add in compressed air for my SBE3 shotgun to blow out the spots I can't reach and remove excess lubricant.

After a heavy range session or hunting trip, when I get home I'll do a more thorough cleaning with a coated rod and nylon brush. Sometimes I cut little pieces off of 3x3 shotgun patches and wrap them around the brushes and push them through. But still, I try not to get it TOO clean...just clean enough. Rifles and shotguns get pretty much the same treatment.

Bore snakes are Hoppe's Viper Bore Snake with the brushes woven in them. I wash them with simple green to rejuvenate and replace as necessary. Bore brushes (nylon only) and rods (coated stainless steel) are from Montana X-Treme.

For a cleaning agent, I've been using Clenzoil CLP with very good results. Still have some Hoppe's #9 that I dab behind my ears when I feel like getting frisky! Mrs BeeMaa loves that stuff!!!

 

[HankBuck]

I’ve never been a fan of bore snakes.

A shooter on the 1968 Olympic Team taught me how to clean my rifles and it seems to work well for me.

I recognize that things have changed and there is new technology but I believe that if it ain’t broke I shouldn’t try to “fix” it. I seldom clean my rifles, shooting lead core bullets, unless I get moisture in the barrel or accuracy starts to drop off.

I’ve noticed that the mono metal bullets prefer a clean barrel and only go about twenty or so rounds before accuracy starts to drop off.

@Neophyte - do you agree that “cleaning” puts more wear on barrels then shooting?
For both my custom rifles I was told to only use “nylon” brushes in the barrels, never bronze and especially avoid the steel “tornado” type. I’m not a competition bench rest shooter so I doubt my cleaning methods really impact my rifles that much either way….but I do use nylon brushes since I was told that.

 

[skydiver386]

Bore Snakes are ok for quick cleaning on a long hunt. After a long range session or a competition shoot, a rod and jag with patches is the only right way.

A good copper solvent, then a light oil will keep your barrel shooting like it should.

I see far to many used guns with barrels that aren't shot out, but have suffered corrosion from lack of cleaning. If you ever get a chance, bore scope your rifles, and your opinion on proper gun cleaning will change.

 

[Neophyte]

I’ve been told by a few sources I trust that more rifles are ruined by improper, or too frequent, cleaning than are ever shot out.

Since I don’t shoot copper bullets I clean a rifle only once it’s accuracy starts to drop off after the initial cleaning when I bring it home unless there is moisture or dirt in the barrel.

 

[sestoppelman]

I like the snakes for some applications, lever guns, guns that dont foul badly, range cleaning for semi's. Otherwise I clean from the breech end, ( not breach ), and pull it all out. I like that they have a brush on them and then the long section of cloth to grab the stuff the brush loosened.
Once a snake gets pretty dirty, best to just toss it for new, but I dont get too excited about the dirt on it, its going back out anyway and I usually follow up with a patch Hoppes or oil.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You fellas are missing the important part. I agree that a plain old bore snake used the plain old way (just whipped down the bore) is a marginal cleaning tool. But if I have to stand on it to pull a bit of rag through the bore and I hear it squealing as it goes down the tube, there's not going to be much crud left behind that rag. And if my barrel's hardened steel/chrome/moly rifling can stand up to a copper bullet blasted down the bore under huge pressure, I'm sure it can handle a bit of compressed rag or paper towel. Also, I really cannot believe a little bit of brass or aluminum cleaning rod touching the rifling could possibly damage anything. It just doesn't make sense. These are tools meant to work hard under extreme forces and pressure. Rifle barrels are not delicate flowers.

 

[Doug3006]

I don't know why I couldn't just throw this bore snake in the washing machine to clean it if needed. Anyway, if I'm pulling it through with a clean rag in the loop on the end, the rag should pick up any possible grime deposited ahead of it by a dirty bore snake. A dirty cleaning rod, on the other hand, has to be pulled back through the bore after rag/patch falls off. Using my method, bore snake is a one way trip with all the cleaning at the end of the train.

I drop my bore snakes in the washer and they come out clean and undamaged. Works great.

 

[Fixfire]

I literally put 10,000+ rounds through my Silver Pigeon III always using a bore snake after shooting. When trading up for a new DT11 my Beretta dealer asked if I even ever shot the Silver Pigeon, declaring the bores “pristine”. So I went out and purchased snakes in every rifle caliber I own.

 

[sestoppelman]

I drop my bore snakes in the washer and they come out clean and undamaged. Works great.

Not with the wife's wash I hope!

 

[One Day...]

The myths...

"Bore snakes will erode the crown and make it oval" -

Compared to the white-hot high-pressure gases jetting on the crown's edge as the bullet exits the bore, it is going to take some serious exertion on the bore snake nylon cord to ovalize the crown.............

But, if you are concerned, it certainly does not hurt to pull the cord straight through the center of the muzzle and avoid rubbing it on the crown. Easy enough.

"Cleaning rods will damage the rifling" - both and

There is a bit more substance to this one, especially as related to military service, when the cleaning rods were/are steel take-down rods with uneven junctions, and rifle cleaning was/is a several-hour institution quasi daily after each firing or each field exercise. Take a few thousands recruits in boot camps over the life of the rifle, and you can get there.

Conversely, modern civilian cleaning rods made of aluminum or brass will wear out before the rifling does. Again, if the bore can stand to bronze solid bullets or cupro-nickel jacketed bullets pushed at several thousand fps by white-hot high-pressure gases, it will stand up to a bronze rod, however energetically it is manipulated.

But, if you are concerned, avoiding steel cleaning rods, coated or not, makes sense to me, and it is indeed good practice to engage the rod from the chamber to avoid banging it on the crown's edge.

"The barrel needs to be cleaned after each shooting/hunting session" - both and

If "cleaning" means removing any trace of fouling and jacket/bullet residue, cleaning after each shooting session is actually detrimental for hunting rifles as most hunting rifles settle in their zero after a few shots and are likely to have a different point of impact from a squeaky clean barrel.

Note: benchrest match rifles may be different as some are zeroed for a squeaky clean barrel and cleaned every few shots.

Conversely, if "cleaning" means removing powder residues, or dust after a long day in Africa, cleaning every evening in camp is a great idea, and this is where pulling the boresnake a few times is really convenient. In my experience, it only takes 3 pulls, and this is gauged from the fact that on the third pull there is typically no more a little cloud of dust bursting from the barrel when the brush comes out.

Rain is another case, where the bore snake, with the brush wrapped in a few successive pieces of paper towel (until it comes out dry), will work great.

"Boresnakes cannot be cleaned" -

Yes they can, just dump them in the silverware holder of the dishwasher.

Note: NOT in the clothes washing machine.

In summary

The boresnake is useless to remove copper/jacket fouling, but this should only be done when the rifle starts opening its groups. In my experience, it can take up to 100 shots to get to that point, but when it needs to be done, only a rod & chemicals can do it.

The cleaning rod & chemicals are a pain in the field and a complete overkill to remove the day's hunt powder residues and dust. This is where the boresnake shines.

The one exception is a muzzle-first face plant in the mud, when a rod will be necessary to push out the mud plug before a boresnake can be used, but a stiff cable, plastic-coated, cleaning kit also works well.

The high-humidity issue whether it be at home if you live on the coast (I do not have this issue in Arizona ) or whether it be on the hunt, is also a case when a rod is useful to push a lightly oiled patch down the bore. A stiff cable, plastic coated, cleaning kit also works well for that.

 

[cajunchefray]

You fellas are missing the important part. I agree that a plain old bore snake used the plain old way (just whipped down the bore) is a marginal cleaning tool. But if I have to stand on it to pull a bit of rag through the bore and I hear it squealing as it goes down the tube, there's not going to be much crud left behind that rag. And if my barrel's hardened steel/chrome/moly rifling can stand up to a copper bullet blasted down the bore under huge pressure, I'm sure it can handle a bit of compressed rag or paper towel. Also, I really cannot believe a little bit of brass or aluminum cleaning rod touching the rifling could possibly damage anything. It just doesn't make sense. These are tools meant to work hard under extreme forces and pressure. Rifle barrels are not delicate flowers.

I came to my ritual of cleaning, after many years of reading articles, but John Barsness of Rifle Magazine wrote a great article on the variables, and diminishing returns of intense cleaning. After some point accuracy was not affected, for a hunter.
My goal is to clean out powder, primer residue, and protect the bore from the tropical humidity in South Louisiana, at all times of the year. Dry seasons are rare here. I like bore snakes for the occasional cleaning after a day at the range, or a hunt. I spray the "leading" rope ahead of the brush with CLP. Two or three passes until I know powder fouling is removed. Then a couple of unoiled passes. This is for rifles that do not have a lot of "fouling" and I don't sweat the pristine bore.

I have not shot a lot of copper monolithic bullets, so I cannot speak to the results for Barnes, etc. I shoot a lot of cup and core, or bonded versions of cup and core.

If I am shooting a lot of rounds, particularly to that rifle ( which is a lot?), then on my bench, after a quick pass with a Bore Snake, I uses a one piece Dewey cleaning rod, a bronze brush of one caliber size smaller ( .27o brush for a .308 bore), and a tightly wrapped cotton patch on the bronze bristle brush, with Hoppe's #9 (or a preferred solvent), pushed from the breach to the muzzle. 3 or 4 passes as needed, always changing the cotton patch each time. I don't look for a "white patch, no soil" to come out, just that it is "a lot cleaner now."

 

[Boone66]

I use cleaning rods at home and Otis in the field or camp. I figure how ever you do, it's better then not doing it. Was never a fan of bore snakes, as they are porous and well, I can get dirt in anything.