Cabela’s banning African hunting pictures from pro staff

[sestoppelman]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/nra-calls-cease-fire-austin-based-yeti-coolers/ Must confess I was unaware of the YETI flap. NRA says "cool" it on destroying them, LOL.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Friends, I know its easy to circle the wagons and get defensive that "hunting is being assaulted" in this discussion. Please consider another view also: The pictures don't help our sport out at all, and whether they don't allow pictures of kills or not, it isn't helpful.

1. Kill shots are off-putting for many customers and the public
2. It overemphasizes a small part of a hunt
3. It misrepresents what hunting is

I would very much like to see us move to the "orvis model" that emphasizes the experience rather than just the final moment.

I have to disagree. They allegedly wanted no African game but are still allowing North American game. Where is the line drawn and why? Do we stop showing prairie dogs but coyotes are ok? Hunting IS being assaulted from many sides. It's a never ending battle and being apologetic is only kow-towing to the antis. I see it as death by a thousand cuts. First it's African game, then it's North American game, then it's small game and waterfowl. Where does it stop? As far as not being helpful, I showed two hunters photos of my African trophies and the next year we were all in Africa hunting. As far as the "orvis" model, that appeals to a miniscule number of fisherman and hunters and from this chair is wishful thinking.

 

[rookhawk]

Here is the irony (and why I bought 4 Yeti products immediately after the NRA debacle):

Yeti doesn't want to be aligned with callous douche-bags that make it look like they are aligned with nuts. The "NRA challenge" videos showed people filling their damned coolers full of explosives and blowing them up. This is EXACTLY the kind of people that YETI or any company wants to distance themselves from. I don't want to have my products or services associated with people that think using explosives is a recreational activity.

The NRA slandered YETI and started this entire disaster instead of using a gentle hand, letting the shooting tragedies die down, and then bringing YETI back into the fold as clearly aligned with sportsmen.

As the highest level of NRA Life Member (life-patron-benefactor-endowed...I've been all 4) I can say 100% I value the 2nd amendment work the NRA does but I personally would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS DO A BUSINESS, JOINT VENTURE, CROSS BRANDING, OR COLLABORATION with the NRA because they are not trustworthy in a crisis and they burn bridges needlessly. I don't negotiate with terrorists and NRA tactics come damn close to violating RICO and extortion laws.

 

[YancyW]

Here is the irony (and why I bought 4 Yeti products immediately after the NRA debacle):

Yeti doesn't want to be aligned with callous douche-bags that make it look like they are aligned with nuts. The "NRA challenge" videos showed people filling their damned coolers full of explosives and blowing them up. This is EXACTLY the kind of people that YETI or any company wants to distance themselves from. I don't want to have my products or services associated with people that think using explosives is a recreational activity.

The NRA slandered YETI and started this entire disaster instead of using a gentle hand, letting the shooting tragedies die down, and then bringing YETI back into the fold as clearly aligned with sportsmen.

As the highest level of NRA Life Member (life-patron-benefactor-endowed...I've been all 4) I can say 100% I value the 2nd amendment work the NRA does but I personally would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS DO A BUSINESS, JOINT VENTURE, CROSS BRANDING, OR COLLABORATION with the NRA because they are not trustworthy in a crisis and they burn bridges needlessly. I don't negotiate with terrorists and NRA tactics come damn close to violating RICO and extortion laws.

That is the most absurd thing I have seen posted on here since I have joined.

 

[rookhawk]

I have to disagree. They allegedly wanted no African game but are still allowing North American game. Where is the line drawn and why? Do we stop showing prairie dogs but coyotes are ok? Hunting IS being assaulted from many sides. It's a never ending battle and being apologetic is only kow-towing to the antis. I see it as death by a thousand cuts. First it's African game, then it's North American game, then it's small game and waterfowl. Where does it stop? As far as not being helpful, I showed two hunters photos of my African trophies and the next year we were all in Africa hunting. As far as the "orvis" model, that appeals to a miniscule number of fisherman and hunters and from this chair is wishful thinking.

The Orvis Model is a nearly $1bn private "lifestyle brand". They show wingshooting of pheasants flushing or birds flying, they don't show dead pheasants hanging on nails or brag about how many shells you'll use or how many doves you'll kill in Cordoba. They sell an experience to the 5% of their customers that want one. They sell lifestyle clothing and furnishings to people that like the look and enjoy the outdoors, the 95%. This is what Gander Outdoors, BassPro/Cabelas, and others must address because guns don't make up much of their revenue and even less of their profits. Alienate the core shopper and there is no place for the gun owner and hunter to shop anymore. We are not the core sales demographic.

And from my chair, yes, we stop showing piles of dead prairie dogs especially. The varmint hunter will be the death of our sport. People actually drive to the middle of nowhere and kill as many prairie dogs as possible and brag about it. The thousands of raptors that die from lead toxicity eating the dead prairie dogs is a conservation / PR nightmare. The wonton waste presented by the varmint hunter is horrible for PR. The varmint hunter needs to show the utility and morality of what they do (it's about land management) and they need to use non-tox ammo or pick up every carcass. They don't need to show photos of piles of dead animals they will not eat they killed in an ecosystem that needs those animals, on public land they did not own, for no utility. (If no lack of utility = immoral/unethical) Not all varmint hunting is unethical but it is a brewing PR nightmare, as are the "kill shots". Killing just to kill is the fast track to banned hunting. Banned hunting is the fast track to elimination of the 2nd amendment.

 

[Hogpatrol]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/nra-calls-cease-fire-austin-based-yeti-coolers/ Must confess I was unaware of the YETI flap. NRA says "cool" it on destroying them, LOL.

Delta should be on the shit list too. My last flight with them was in '17. Emirates and SAA from now on.

 

[rookhawk]

That is the most absurd thing I have seen posted on here since I have joined.

You state that. Here is the full quote from another thread defending my opinion:

Examples with Yeti: Yeti was sweating it out as the NRA was making some fairly stupid statements that were going to endanger the bulk of Yeti's non-hunting customers. (e.g. campers, tailgaters, fisherman, boaters, etc.) Yeti took a wise and simple step, they said privately to the NRA "we do not wish to be part of your cross-branding program any longer where an NRA decal is put on our products". That's a pretty legitimate request, one that I as a conscientious hunter might say to some conservation organizations that go off the rails that would injure my clientele if I'm literally selling cross-branded products that assert my 100% support. In response to this private correspondence between Yeti and the NRA, NRA conflated it to make a scene and publicly shouted "yeti isn't with us anymore, they are anti-NRA" creating division. Yeti didn't say they wouldn't work with the NRA or that they didn't like hunters, they just said they didn't want cross-branded merchandise that would alienate the majority of their clientele. NRA caused a division by escalating and conflating a small position and making it public to HARM yeti. I don't consider someone my ally if they decide to destroy me or my company if I don't acquiesce to every business interaction with them. If I owned Yeti, I don't know if I could control my anger at what they had done, I might have made a much more powerful retaliatory position so that my company wasn't embarrassed or harmed by an affiliated entity in the future.

 

[YancyW]

You state that. Here is the full quote from another thread defending my opinion:

Examples with Yeti: Yeti was sweating it out as the NRA was making some fairly stupid statements that were going to endanger the bulk of Yeti's non-hunting customers. (e.g. campers, tailgaters, fisherman, boaters, etc.) Yeti took a wise and simple step, they said privately to the NRA "we do not wish to be part of your cross-branding program any longer where an NRA decal is put on our products". That's a pretty legitimate request, one that I as a conscientious hunter might say to some conservation organizations that go off the rails that would injure my clientele if I'm literally selling cross-branded products that assert my 100% support. In response to this private correspondence between Yeti and the NRA, NRA conflated it to make a scene and publicly shouted "yeti isn't with us anymore, they are anti-NRA" creating division. Yeti didn't say they wouldn't work with the NRA or that they didn't like hunters, they just said they didn't want cross-branded merchandise that would alienate the majority of their clientele. NRA caused a division by escalating and conflating a small position and making it public to HARM yeti. I don't consider someone my ally if they decide to destroy me or my company if I don't acquiesce to every business interaction with them. If I owned Yeti, I don't know if I could control my anger at what they had done, I might have made a much more powerful retaliatory position so that my company wasn't embarrassed or harmed by an affiliated entity in the future.

I have read it, that is not in the same universe as RICO, it isn't even remotely a criminal matter. Yeti didn't pursue any civil action either, which tells you much about their position. They learned an important lesson, if you are going to jump into a political fight, you better buckle your chinstrap. The NFL should have paid attention.

 

[rookhawk]

I have read it, that is not in the same universe as RICO, it isn't even remotely a criminal matter. Yeti didn't pursue any civil action either, which tells you much about their position. They learned an important lesson, if you are going to jump into a political fight, you better buckle your chinstrap. The NFL should have paid attention.

Originally and often still specifically, a racket was a criminal act in which the perpetrator or perpetrators offer a service that is fraudulently offered to solve a nonexistent problem, a service that will not be put into effect, or a service that would not exist without the racket. Conducting a racket is racketeering.[1] Particularly, the potential problem may be caused by the same party that offers to solve it, but that fact may be concealed, with the specific intent to engender continual patronage for this party.

So in this case, the NRA said "give us NRA donations for our banquet, YETI, and they better the hell say "friends of the NRA" on them, just like you did last year". Yeti said, "no, no thank you. Further, we are ending our cross-branding offering that we've done previously. We wish you well in all your endeavors and we look forward to future opportunities to work with the NRA." NRA says back by their actions: "YETI, we're going to let our members know you didn't give us free stuff and you didn't cross-brand your products. We're going to conflate the situation, galvanize it, and show you what happens when you don't acquiesce to our demands.".

Sounds pretty close to a RICO or extortion play in principle to me, even though it wouldn't hold weight in court. I stand by my disappointment in the NRA, an organization for which I've financially supported at great personal financial expense to a degree 99.99% of their membership never have. (I've donated as much as 5% of my post-tax earnings to the NRA in given years, and did so three years in a row)

I stand by my statements. If you disagree with mine, why don't you double down and mail 5% of your income to the NRA now as I have done previously when they weren't being insane, creating an unwinnable PR game for my 2nd amendment rights and my outdoor sports?

 

[rookhawk]

Lt. Governor of Georgia is protected by Sovereign Immunity from being charged with extortion. If not for that technicality, this is what extortion looks like:



Casey Cagle

✔@CaseyCagle

I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA. Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.


32.6K
1:02 PM - Feb 26, 2018
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68.9K people are talking about this

 

[YancyW]

Originally and often still specifically, a racket was a criminal act in which the perpetrator or perpetrators offer a service that is fraudulently offered to solve a nonexistent problem, a service that will not be put into effect, or a service that would not exist without the racket. Conducting a racket is racketeering.[1] Particularly, the potential problem may be caused by the same party that offers to solve it, but that fact may be concealed, with the specific intent to engender continual patronage for this party.

So in this case, the NRA said "give us NRA donations for our banquet, YETI, and they better the hell say "friends of the NRA" on them, just like you did last year". Yeti said, "no, no thank you. Further, we are ending our cross-branding offering that we've done previously. We wish you well in all your endeavors and we look forward to future opportunities to work with the NRA." NRA says back by their actions: "YETI, we're going to let our members know you didn't give us free stuff and you didn't cross-brand your products. We're going to conflate the situation, galvanize it, and show you what happens when you don't acquiesce to our demands.".

Sounds pretty close to a RICO or extortion play in principle to me, even though it wouldn't hold weight in court. I stand by my disappointment in the NRA, an organization for which I've financially supported at great personal financial expense to a degree 99.99% of their membership never have. (I've donated as much as 5% of my post-tax earnings to the NRA in given years, and did so three years in a row)

I stand by my statements. If you disagree with mine, why don't you double down and mail 5% of your income to the NRA now as I have done when previously when they weren't being insane, creating an unwinnable PR game for my 2nd amendment rights and my outdoor sports?

We can certainly agree, "it wouldn't hold weight in court". As to the NRA, between cash donations and donated services from my company, I am into the six figure range at this point, I am doing all I can to pull the wagon.

 

[rookhawk]

We can certainly agree, "it wouldn't hold weight in court". As to the NRA, between cash donations and donated services from my company, I am into the six figure range at this point, I am doing all I can to pull the wagon.

I hope you never have to stop supporting them or can't afford to support them, because such withdrawals of support from the NRA are punished with impunity by the present NRA management.

 

[YancyW]

Lt. Governor of Georgia is protected by Sovereign Immunity from being charged with extortion. If not for that technicality, this is what extortion looks like:



Casey Cagle

✔@CaseyCagle

I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA. Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.


32.6K
1:02 PM - Feb 26, 2018
Twitter Ads info and privacy

68.9K people are talking about this

Do you honestly believe the Lt Gov of Georgia is shielded from being charged with a federal crime because of Sovereign Immunity?

 

[206moose]

I survived the BPS merger and was promoted to GSM over hunting camping and archery. I’m no longer with them but we were not allowed to have kill pics for our profile pictures.

 

[barbells.and.arrows]

@rookhawk I agree with you to a point regarding the Orvis model. However the Orvis/Filson models aren't really good at showcasing the average guy or catering to him. The average guy isn't going on fully stocked quail hunts on plantations, like some of these "bespoke goods" companies are sharing. Also, I'm from the middle of America, and grew up on a ranch. Doubt I'll be wearing tweeds to do any hunting like Orvis sells.
Do I think hunters need to use good judgement when posting photos of hunts? Absolutely, and should they focus more on the "journey/hunt" sure, but I still and always will love a nice looking trophy photo.

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk I agree with you to a point regarding the Orvis model. However the Orvis/Filson models aren't really good at showcasing the average guy or catering to him. The average guy isn't going on fully stocked quail hunts on plantations, like some of these "bespoke goods" companies are sharing. Also, I'm from the middle of America, and grew up on a ranch. Doubt I'll be wearing tweeds to do any hunting like Orvis sells.
Do I think hunters need to use good judgement when posting photos of hunts? Absolutely, and should they focus more on the "journey/hunt" sure, but I still and always will love a nice looking trophy photo.

That's fair. And some might say they like a nice picture of attractive girls in a bikini too. But we don't pass them around at the office. It's all about place-and-time. I'd love to look through your "trophy shots" over a beer but the pictures we might show wives and coworkers might be a photo of a herd at sunrise, a picture of the landscape, and a selfie in a tent roughing it. We want to be ambassadors for our sport while we have one, and that means we need to be on the right side of history.

Our grandkids are going to look back on us someday, peruse the old photos, and ask "what were they thinking?" in regards to our sport.

 

[barbells.and.arrows]

@rookhawk I completely agree. It's all about knowing your audience. The photos from most all of my hunts are on my personal social page. There are a few animals I have killed, and would like to kill that will never be made "public" so to speak. I have shared them with people who understand conservation through hunting, but I also don't want to wind up on fox news for some zealot on social media getting their hands on them.

I think the greatest asset we can be as "free agent"/non-sponsored hunters is by influencing those who know us well in real life. I have friends who donate to PETA, but were completely enamored with my photos (including trophy photos) from Africa. I think when people know you, and know you aren't some barbaric fool, then it's easier to relay the message of conservation through hunting and what not. I feel like if I can change the hearts and minds of those nearest to me, then I'm at least doing something.

 

[lwaters]

I didn't like being switch to MasterCard either. Visa works better overseas.

 

[wesheltonj]

@rookhawk, I agree with your Orvis example and disagree with the YETI one. Orvis pushes wing-shooting and nothing else and it's "life-style." Very Southern Quail hunting and high end Pheasant hunting, and that's what they want in their photos. Cabalas was about big game hunting.

The NRA never said give us free stuff, they were buying product at a discount. YETI said publicly that they just changed the terms of the discount program and the discount that the NRA had was discontinued and it was all just a big misunderstanding. The reality was they sent a letter to the NRA that they would not sell any product to the NRA and was canceling all pending orders. Their Manhattan owners made a very poor business decision, they forgot who buys their cooler products. I own two YETI coolers and several cups, but will never buy another YETI product. Quite frankly, as far as their cups are concerned, the counterfeit YETI's outperform the real YETI's. And their coolers, other brands perform better too.

 

[barbells.and.arrows]

Forgot this thread was here and then I started the other one. If anyone can feel free to delete the other one.

https://warriorsandwildmen.com/e83/

The lady who was Cabela's pro staff who started this whole thing is interviewed in the above podcast. I think it will be interesting in the next few years to see how many hunters who are in the limelight cower to this mentality that African hunting is taboo.