Blaser R8 - Why do African PH’s and Alaskan Bear Guides Choose Not To Use Blaser R8’s?

[Bonk]

I think what frustrates most R8 owners is that the most outspoken critics of the rifle, like the originator of this thread, have never held, fired, or likely even seen an actual R8. They have allegedly heard or read someone say something negative, and have assumed it must be the truth. Please note our OP didn't really ask a question, but instead made a negative assertion about the rifle's lack of suitability for DG.

The other usual critic owns a CeeZeeRemwinburg and demands validation that it is "just as good" as a R8.

This is a unique forum because it counts among its members quite a few actual R8 owners who have extensive experience with the rifle. That experience often includes dangerous game. Should it be surprise that such assertions generate informed responses?

I am fortunate to own and hunt with a large number of rifles. I love just about all of them. I was in Zambia in August with a Rigby; I shot my last two whitetail with a custom Bradshaw and an Al Lind; and I'll likely bring either my Craig Libhart .404 or William Douglas & Son .470 on my next buffalo hunt. But my "best", most consistently accurate, most practical, and easily transportable rifle is my R8 - by a significant margin.

I should also note, in synthetic guise, it is my "beater" rifle. It is impervious to almost anything.

I will not argue the aesthetics point. I think they can be a quite handsome rifle, but as you correctly note that is opinion. One of mine in its "classic sporter" stock. But aesthetically pleasing or not, it is simply superb.

Admittedly that one doesn't look too bad at all.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have actually touched one.. ....only with one hand as the client asked me to hold it while he was occupied doing something else....but I am safe as have no desire to shoot one...even holding it I didn't like the feel...so I am totally safe from the dark side or dodgy rabbit holes

@spike.t
Like yourself I have held one but I actually got to play with it. I didn't shoot it tho. Yes it's an engineering marvel and of high quality but to me it just didn't feel right (being a left handed rifle may have had something to do with it). Personally I feel I can cycle my M17 and P14 pert near as quickly so that advantage is mute in my book. Being able to be packed into a small pack doesn't worry me as 99.9% of my hunting is in Australia so no big deal.
For all the hoopla about the R8 and perceived advantages sorry it just doesn't float my boat. I know others love them and that's the beauty of humans we all have different likes and dislikes.
Bob

 

[One Day...]

@spike.t
Being able to be packed into a small pack doesn't worry me as 99.9% of my hunting is in Australia so no big deal.

Amen!

I was very much in the same boat for a very long time. When I emigrated to the US in the 1980's, I left in France at the family chalet in the Alps my beloved Steyr Mannlicher Luxus .270 Win circa late 1970's with Zeiss 1.5-6x42 on Suhl claw mounts, as well as a pair of Zeiss 10x40 BGA T* binoculars, and my mountaineering boots and kit. So, when I go hunting in France I literally travel with what I am wearing and without even a carry-on luggage (what a pleasure it is!).

It is said that sailors had a woman in each port, I do not know... What I know is that having one of your rifles waiting for you at each hunting destination would be by far the most convenient way. This beloved Steyr Mannlicher Luxus .270 Win circa late 1970's with Zeiss 1.5-6x42 on Suhl claw mounts, patiently waits for me in the French Alps...

In the mean time, I hunted in America & Canada for 40 years with a number of different rifles (I had my "collector" period) including Sauer 90 Luxus in 7 Rem Mag; another Steyr Mannlicher Luxus in 7x64; custom Dumoulin in .338 Win Mag; Zanardini Kipplauf in 7x65R; Mannlicher Schoenauer M72 in 6 Rem; Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 in 6.5x54; original FN in .308 Norma Mag then rimmed into .300 Win Mag when .308 Mag ammo became impossible to source in the US; bespoke Griffin & Howe in .340 Wby on ZKK 602 action; Weatherby Mk V in .257 Wby and .340 Wby; Winchester 70 Classic Stainless in .300 Wby Mag (a rare limited run that was offered for only one year); Mauser 66 in .30-06; etc. Lord what else? A few others, I am sure, escape my fleeting memory...

In all this North American and Canadian hunting, hunts were very specialized (one or two species) and the need to bring along different calibers never arose in 40 years, hence a classic one or two rifles aluminum gun case worked just fine, and airlines were different, it seems, then.

Then my first safari was - like with many of us - what I thought would be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt that would check the African box, and I went with a Pelican 1750 and two rifles: Krieghoff .470 double for Buffalo, and Mk V .340 Wby for 15 PG species. The case weighed more than 50 lbs. and measured more than 62" linear; and it was a pain to schlep twice through Phoenix airport, JFK airport in New York, JNB airport in Johannesburg, then East London airport; and the oversize and overweight fees could have reached over $600; and the .340 Wby proved great for heavy PG but (of course!) needlessly powerful and fierce recoiling for most of the PG, and I missed a lighter PG caliber...

Two rifles in a Pelican 1750. In excess of 50 lbs. and 62" linear, potentially expensive in airlines overweight and oversize fees, physically exhausting during long and repeated airports transits, and over-gunned on small & medium PG.

And of course that first safari did not take Africa out of my system but infected me deeply with the African Bug and I can hardly think, year after year, about anything else but going back every year, and I want 3 calibers (heavy, medium and light) because I prefer to amortize the airfare fully, going for 3 weeks, and I generally mix DG (expensive), large PG (not too expensive) and small PG (inexpensive) during these hunts. I take an immense pleasure hunting Vaal Rhebok or Mountain Reedbuck in the mountains of the Eastern Cape, and it costs very little to do it for a few days once you are there.

At this stage, taking 3 rifles in a monster gun trunk becomes such a labor-intensive physical hassle, and can become so expensive if each of the 6 flights triggers a $100+overweight and oversize fee, that the interchangeable barrels concept started to make sense to me...

The Mauser M03 was a possibility, but having been recently discontinued and having the scope mounted on the action, i.e. disconnected from the changeable barrels, eliminated it. Other take-down multi-barrel systems with also scopes on the action were out too. Only the Blaser with scopes mounted on the barrel itself insures truly repeatable return to zero, and only Blaser offers the almost endless choice of calibers. So... Blaser it was...

Three calibers in a Pelican 1700. In compliance with the 50 lbs. and 62" linear airlines maximum allowance; easy to handle during long and repeated airports transits; and perfect for DG, large PG and small & medium PG.

Leaving the double .470 NE at home and taking 3 Blaser barrels even allows me to put the scopes in the gun case if I want.

.458 Lott (heavy DG), .375 H&H (carnivorous DG and Eland / potentially one rifle safari), .300 Wby (heavy PG) and .257 Wby (light & medium PG and MG [Mountain Game]) barrels offer endless combinations adapted to any possible safari.

I know, I know, I could do it all with my tuned up CZ 550 .375 H&H, and Lord knows it is good and I love it, but the .375 H&H ain't much of a stopper in thick jesse - although a great killer - and it is far from ideal on Vaal Rhebok or Mountain Reedbuck on top of the Karoo...

Is all this worth the Blaser prices? Each will answer for their own, but to me it finally became worth my money. Africa is too far, too expensive and too seldom for me to be interested in compromising much any more, and TO ME, hunting with my own and most adapted rifle is a great part of the fun...

As detailed in my review, I do not endow the R8 with extraordinary qualities or capabilities, nor do I advertise for it, and I am on record for sharply criticizing their pricing, especially for everything related to Africa. It is just a very good, well thought out, reliable, modern-engineering rifle that shoots well and straight - sort of the Glock of hunting rifles - and it is indeed overpriced in my estimation, but it DOES offer a unique capability for hunters who travel often. Nothing more, but nothing less.

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...aser-r8-a-two-months-500-rounds-review.60483/

 

[CoElkHunter]

Amen!

I was very much in the same boat for a very long time. When I emigrated to the US in the 1980's I left in France at the family chalet in the Alps my beloved Steyr Mannlicher Luxus .270 Win circa late 1970's with Zeiss 1.5-6x42 on Suhl claw mounts, as well as a pair of Zeiss 10x40 BGA T* binoculars, and my mountaineering boots and kit. So, when I go hunting in France I literally travel with what I am wearing and without even a carry-on luggage (what a pleasure it is!).

View attachment 445963
It is said that sailors had a woman in each port, I do not know... What I know is that having one of your rifles waiting for you at each hunting destination would be by far the most convenient way. This beloved Steyr Mannlicher Luxus .270 Win circa late 1970's with Zeiss 1.5-6x42 on Suhl claw mounts, patiently waits for me in the French Alps...

In the mean time, I hunted in America & Canada with a number of different rifles (I had my "collector" period) including Sauer 90 Luxus in 7 Rem Mag; another Steyr Mannlicher Luxus in 7x64; custom Dumoulin in .338 Win Mag; Zanardini Kipplauf in 7x65R; Mannlicher Schoenauer M72 in 6 Rem; Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 in 6.5x54; original FN in .308 Norma Mag then rimmed into .300 Win Mag when .308 Mag ammo became impossible to source in the US; bespoke Griffin & Howe in .340 Wby on ZKK 602 action; Weatherby Mk V in .257 Wby and .340 Wby; Winchester 70 Classic Stainless in .300 Wby Mag (a rare limited run that was offered for only one year); Mauser 66 in .30-06; etc. Lord what else? A few others I am sure escape my fleeting memory...

In all this North American and Canadian hunting, hunts were very specialized (one or two species) and the need to bring along different calibers never arose in 40 years, hence a classic one or two rifles aluminum gun case worked just fine, and airlines were different, it seems, then.

Then my first safari was - like with many of us - what I thought would be a once-in-a-lifetime hunt that would check the African box, and I went with a Pelican 1750 and two rifles: .470 for Buffalo and .340 Wby for 15 PG species. The case weighed more than 50 lbs. and measured more than 62" linear; and it was a bear to schlep twice through Phoenix airport, JFK airport in New York, JNB airport in Johannesburg, then East London airport; and the over size and over weight fees could have reached over $600; and the .340 Wby proved great for heavy PG but (of course!) needlessly powerful and fierce recoiling for most of the PG hunts, and I missed a lighter PG caliber...

View attachment 445965
Two rifles in a Pelican 1750. In excess of 50 lbs. and 62" linear, potentially expensive in airlines overweight and oversize fees, physically exhausting during long and repeated airports transits, and over-gunned on small & medium PG.

And of course that first safari did not take Africa out of my system but infected me deeply with the African Bug and I can hardly think, year after year, about anything else but going back every year, and I want 3 calibers (heavy, medium and light) because I prefer to amortize the airfare fully, going for 3 weeks, and I generally mix DG (expensive), large PG (not too expensive) and small PG (inexpensive) during these hunts. I take an immense pleasure hunting Vaal Rhebok or Mountain Reedbuck in the mountains of the Eastern Cape, and it costs very little to do it for a few days once you are there.

At this stage, taking 3 rifles in a monster gun trunk becomes such a labor-intensive physical hassle, and can become so expensive if each of the 6 flights triggers a $100+overweight and oversize fee, that the interchangeable barrels concept started to make sense to me...

The Mauser M03 was a possibility, but having been recently discontinued and having the scope mounted on the action, i.e. disconnected from the changeable barrels, eliminated it. Other take-down multi-barrel systems with also scopes on the action were out too. Only the Blaser with scopes mounted on the barrel itself insures truly repeatable return to zero, and only Blaser offers the almost endless choice of calibers. So... Blaser it was...

View attachment 445971
Three calibers in a Pelican 1700. In compliance with the 50 lbs. and 62" linear airlines maximum allowance; easy to handle during long and repeated airports transits; and perfect for DG, large PG and small & medium PG.

Leaving the double .470 NE at home and taking 3 Blaser barrels even allows me to put the scopes in the gun case if I want.

.458 Lott (heavy DG), .375 H&H (carnivorous DG and Eland / potentially one rifle safari), .300 Wby (heavy PG) and .257 Wby (light & medium PG and MG [Mountain Game]) barrels offer endless combinations adapted to any possible safari.

I know, I know, I could do it all with my tuned up CZ 550 .375 H&H, and Lord knows it is good and I love it, but the .375 H&H ain't much of a stopper in thick jesse - although a great killer - and it is far from ideal on Vaal Rhebok or Mountain Reedbuck on top of the Karoo...

Is all this worth the Blaser prices? Each will answer for their own, but to me it finally became worth my money. Africa is too far, too expensive and too seldom for me to be interested in compromising much any more, and TO ME, hunting with my own and most adapted rifle is a great part of the fun...

As detailed in my review, I do not endow the R8 with extraordinary qualities or capabilities, nor do I advertise for it, and I am on record for sharply criticizing their pricing, especially for everything related to Africa. It is just a very good, well thought out, reliable, modern-engineering rifle that shoots well and straight - sort of the Glock of hunting rifles - and it is indeed overpriced in my estimation, but it DOES offer a unique capability for hunters who travel often. Nothing more, but nothing less.

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...aser-r8-a-two-months-500-rounds-review.60483/

And, Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen COULD keep an extra .35 Whelen at his family's cabin in the Australian Alps if he had a mind to. That way he wouldn't be exhausted having to carry a rifle through the mountains to the cabin for his hunt?

 

[Tra3]

The R8 worked flawlessly on DG and PG for me and my kids last summer.

I’ll add to @One Day... and say the ease of transport is significant. A smaller case works better for the many times that the rifle system is moved. Between range trips and hunting, I leave my house with the case dozens of times per year. Even for family trips where I can shoot a .22 in the yard, I sneak the case in the vehicle with no askance look from my spouse.

2 rifles, 3 barrels and about 44 lbs for the case. Scopes go in a small backpack.

 

[Rickmt]

Some of you guys are really down there in the weeds. I am a new r8 owner and mine feels good , feeds slick as snot and shoots straight. I am not going to drag it from the back of my Polaris so I guess your gun is probably better. I like chocolate so you can have the vanilla. So far every time I pull the trgger it goes bang ! I will let you know when it fails . Just hope doesn’t happen for me or my son on our first Buffalo hunt this September.

 

[Nhoro]

wow lockdown fever is sure getting some panties in a twist Discuss a Blaser R8 in 458 win mag using Hornady DGX bullets and we can really get this party started.

I think it is a valid observation that very few PH's carry R8's. To be honest, very few R8's in Africa compared to other actions. But most PH's have enough money to buy a double, they see 30 or 40 rifles a year operating in their own back yard. If the R8 met their needs, I am sure more would use them.

My opinion: Mauser extractor is a big plus as is the fewer working parts. Mausers also better with dirt. A PH carries his rifle every day but maybe shoots once a year and maybe in defense of his life is less interested in group size at 100 m and being able to fit a 458,30-06 and 243 in the same case. He wants absolute reliability in hot conditions where he may have difficult extraction etc. So a bullet proof CZ 550 suits his needs.A traveling hunter, on the other hand values first shot accuracy and convenience through the airport. Different needs lead to different tools.

 

[Red Leg]

wow lockdown fever is sure getting some panties in a twist Discuss a Blaser R8 in 458 win mag using Hornady DGX bullets and we can really get this party started.

I think it is a valid observation that very few PH's carry R8's. To be honest, very few R8's in Africa compared to other actions. But most PH's have enough money to buy a double, they see 30 or 40 rifles a year operating in their own back yard. If the R8 met their needs, I am sure more would use them.

My opinion: Mauser extractor is a big plus as is the fewer working parts. Mausers also better with dirt. A PH carries his rifle every day but maybe shoots once a year and maybe in defense of his life is less interested in group size at 100 m and being able to fit a 458,30-06 and 243 in the same case. He wants absolute reliability in hot conditions where he may have difficult extraction etc. So a bullet proof CZ 550 suits his needs.A traveling hunter, on the other hand values first shot accuracy and convenience through the airport. Different needs lead to different tools.

"But most PH's have enough money to buy a double......." You must hunt in fairly exclusive company. Someone clearly needs to introduce you to a typical PH.

 

[Tanks]

"But most PH's have enough money to buy a double......." You must hunt in fairly exclusive company. Someone clearly needs to introduce you to a typical PH.

Correct. If he had said most DG PHs over the age of 35 not in RSA strive to buy a double I'd agree. Of the PHs I have known personally, about 80% use doubles. However, they could not afford it at the start of their careers.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

wow lockdown fever is sure getting some panties in a twist Discuss a Blaser R8 in 458 win mag using Hornady DGX bullets and we can really get this party started.

I think it is a valid observation that very few PH's carry R8's. To be honest, very few R8's in Africa compared to other actions. But most PH's have enough money to buy a double, they see 30 or 40 rifles a year operating in their own back yard. If the R8 met their needs, I am sure more would use them.

My opinion: Mauser extractor is a big plus as is the fewer working parts. Mausers also better with dirt. A PH carries his rifle every day but maybe shoots once a year and maybe in defense of his life is less interested in group size at 100 m and being able to fit a 458,30-06 and 243 in the same case. He wants absolute reliability in hot conditions where he may have difficult extraction etc. So a bullet proof CZ 550 suits his needs.A traveling hunter, on the other hand values first shot accuracy and convenience through the airport. Different needs lead to different tools.

@Nhoro
The PH I hunted with wasn't that rich to have either a blaser or a double preferring a Mauser. As a matter of fact he dislikes blasers and wouldn't have one if you gave it to him and cringes when a client turns up with one but never says anything.
Bob.

 

[Red Leg]

Correct. If he had said most DG PHs over the age of 35 not in RSA strive to buy a double I'd agree. Of the PHs I have known personally, about 80% use doubles. However, they could not afford it at the start of their careers.

"Strive to buy a double" - absolutely.

As I said in a previous post, were I a PH and saved enough for a stopping rifle to protect my clients and to sort out wounded DG, it likely would be a quality double in .500. Of the PH's I have known outside of SA, I would estimate 30% own and use a double.

That said, a R8, also in .416 or .500, would be a far more versatile, if not traditional, choice.

 

[BeeMaa]

"Strive to buy a double" - absolutely.

As I said in a previous post, were I a PH and saved enough for a stopping rifle to protect my clients and to sort out wounded DG, it likely would be a quality double in .500. Of the PH's I have known outside of SA, I would estimate 30% own and use a double.

That said, a R8, also in .416 or .500, would be a far more versatile, if not traditional, choice.

Agreed. And as I said on post #16...

A stopping rifle in caliber 470NE or above isn't necessary for a client hunting DG.
A PH doesn't need a 6x or 8x power scope on a rifle to stop a charge.

The job of a PH and the job of a client are not the same.
As such, it isn't necessary for them to carry the same tools.
Instead, a client may be looking for nostalgia...like a Rigby.
Or hunting with one of the most advanced firearms of the day...like an R8.

You may not always drink the Kool-Aid.
But that doesn't mean you have to spill it on everyone else.
Lots of choices out there to make everyone happy.

Let's not forget why we are having this discussion, a (former?) member wanted to stir the pot. It goes to show you how quickly both sides of the R8 argument took the bait.

 

[Tanks]

@Nhoro
The PH I hunted with wasn't that rich to have either a blaser or a double preferring a Mauser. As a matter of fact he dislikes blasers and wouldn't have one if you gave it to him and cringes when a client turns up with one but never says anything.
Bob.

To be honest I don't know why a PH would cringe on any client's weapon as long as the caliber was suitable for the game being hunted. Now, if the client showed up to hunt elephant with a .375, regardless of the brand of rifle, I'd understand the cringe.

Heck, I'd love to have the Blaser trigger on my .500 NE double. It rivals Jewel triggers for sure. Now, that I have shot enough rounds through my Blaser in .300 RUM, I have no qualms about using it for PG this coming August.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

To be honest I don't know why a PH would cringe on any client's weapon as long as the caliber was suitable for the game being hunted. Now, if the client showed up to hunt elephant with a .375, regardless of the brand of rifle, I'd understand the cringe.

Heck, I'd love to have the Blaser trigger on my .500 NE double. It rivals Jewel triggers for sure. Now, that I have shot enough rounds through my Blaser in .300 RUM, I have no qualms about using it for PG this coming August.

@Tanks
He just has a thing about blaser as he had a client hve trouble with one on a DG hunt. He didn't elaborate to much just that because of either the rifle or operator or both failed at the wrong time. Since then if it has Blaser written on it even if it was a kids to capgun He would trust it. What ever happened it must been pretty bad to be like that. I didn't ask any more questions..
Bob

 

[Nhoro]

"But most PH's have enough money to buy a double......." th You must hunt in fairly exclusive company. Someone clearly needs to introduce you to a typical PH.

Ok I call your bluff. Let's see who knows more PH's ?

Of the PH's I know: 1 Rigby 500 NE, 2 VC 500 NE,1 Heym 470 NE,1 CZ 404, 2 x458 Lott,3x 458 win mag, 1x 450 rigby,1x 450 dakota1 x 450 ackley. I know quite a few more but not their rifles.

Of those 13 people, 2 cannot afford a double rifle. How do I know this- I have been to their houses or our kids go to school together. I have a good idea of their lifestyle and expenditure.

 

[Red Leg]

Ok I call your bluff. Let's see who knows more PH's ?

Of the PH's I know: 1 Rigby 500 NE, 2 VC 500 NE,1 Heym 470 NE,1 CZ 404, 2 x458 Lott,3x 458 win mag, 1x 450 rigby,1x 450 dakota1 x 450 ackley. I know quite a few more but not their rifles.

Of those 13 people, 2 cannot afford a double rifle. How do I know this- I have been to their houses or our kids go to school together. I have a good idea of their lifestyle and expenditure.

Good for you.

I can think of no reason to change my response.

 

[Challer]

How about the moderators start a Blaser sub forum? Then the aficionados of the R8 can have our own discussions of the R8 - me included - can discuss the platform in peace. For some reason, the Blaser platform inspires an overly strong response in many non-owners, when all they should do is ignore the R8 posts, just as I ignore all the magazine/feeding/trigger/rebarrel/custom stock/cost/wait times/etc for other rifles.

 

[TTundra]

How about the moderators start a Blaser sub forum? Then the aficionados of the R8 can have our own discussions of the R8 - me included - can discuss the platform in peace. For some reason, the Blaser platform inspires an overly strong response in many non-owners, when all they should do is ignore the R8 posts, just as I ignore all the magazine/feeding/trigger/rebarrel/custom stock/cost/wait times/etc for other rifles.

The naysayers are a small percentage. God help if you get a R8 in 458 Win and shoot Hornady thru it...or maybe that would be enough to finally chase the naysayers away?

 

[Nhoro]

Good for you.

I can think of no reason to change my response.

Of course I only know the best people- that is why we are not friends !

 

[Inline6]

So I guess the R8 is now the equivalent of politics...the line is that divided? I guess it is just bleed over. If you don't agree with me you are wrong and you can't change my mind mentality? Or is it that people here have run out of things to talk about? I read a pistol thread here the other day that was 4 pages in a day. I thought how crazy is that, a pistol question here with that many responses. My thought was A. either more people had experience so they were confident to chime in. B. it was a new subject that people were happy to join in the conversation. Or maybe it is something else entirely different.

Just an observation