Bison Hunting With A 416 Rigby

[TOBY458]

As I sit here pondering my next move. I keep going back to Africa and Australia in my mind, over and over again. However, as you know, 2020 is off the table for us Africa and Australia bound seekers of adventure. So I feel I must search for a replacement of sorts. Something that requires, or at least warrants a large hunk of lead, in 40 caliber or larger. In my mind, the only thing in the USA that fits that bill is the great beast of the western prairie. The American Bison.
I've been planning to hunt Bison for quite some time now. However, I'm not enamored with the way they are hunted in most cases. You see, I have no interest in galloping across the plains on horseback and laying a Sharps 50/70 across the saddle and taking aim. I have other plans. Plans that would have the Bison lurking in the timber. Just waiting for a well made stalk, and an even more well placed bullet. A 416 Caliber bullet to be exact. What better animal could one choose to break in a new DG rifle? Sure, the Bison is no Cape Buffalo in attitude, but in body size, no one could argue against a large bore rifle. And yes, I know a 45/70 will do, but why not use a rifle that will someday be used on a Buffalo or Elephant? After all, isn't that what we all wish we were hunting?
Now that that BS is out of the way, who knows of a good heavy timber hunt for Bison? I have spoken to one guy out in ND, and he gets some really huge bulls. So I'm kind of wanting some input to determine if his prices are fair. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[BnC 04]

If you need contacts from ND I can help ya, as there are several. We did ours in Oklahoma and the boss keeps telling me we need another as she loves bison ribeyes.
High majority or bison hunts are priced off age class.
If I do it again, I will do a reservation hunt back home in ND or MT. Prices are a lot more reasonable.

 

[TOBY458]

If you need contacts from ND I can help ya, as there are several. We did ours in Oklahoma and the boss keeps telling me we need another as she loves bison ribeyes.
High majority or bison hunts are priced off age class.
If I do it again, I will do a reservation hunt back home in ND or MT. Prices are a lot more reasonable.

The guy I spoke with in ND is asking $6500 for what he calls a " Super Trophy Bull". And less money for meat bulls.

 

[BnC 04]

Shoot me a PM Toby and I will send over some info I have from our research for your review.

 

[BeeMaa]

I like the idea of a "DG substitute" for Africa.
The American Bison is an excellent candidate.

The only other option I can think of is Brown Bear in AK, albeit a more expensive option.
IMO, it is a DG animal with the same risk/reward but in a very different setting.
Some say that a .30 caliber magnum or even a 30-06 will get the job done.
I've asked more than a few professional guides and they recommend 338 and above.
A quick handling 416RIGBY would not be out of the question by any means.

Lastly, I will say that Brownies offer a truly wild hunt...not a farm hunt.
From what I have researched, many Bison hunts are not free roaming.
Not sure what your expectations are, but you should be aware.

 

[TOBY458]

I like the idea of a "DG substitute" for Africa.
The American Bison is an excellent candidate.

The only other option I can think of is Brown Bear in AK, albeit a more expensive option.
IMO, it is a DG animal with the same risk/reward but in a very different setting.
Some say that a .30 caliber magnum or even a 30-06 will get the job done.
I've asked more than a few professional guides and they recommend 338 and above.
A quick handling 416RIGBY would not be out of the question by any means.

Lastly, I will say that Brownies offer a truly wild hunt...not a farm hunt.
From what I have researched, many Bison hunts are not free roaming.
Not sure what your expectations are, but you should be aware.

Yes, I've been to AK 3 times and only ever got a shot at a black bear. The problem with those kind of hunts is, they want full payment no matter if you get a shot or not.

 

[meigsbucks]

I like the idea of a "DG substitute" for Africa.
The American Bison is an excellent candidate.

The only other option I can think of is Brown Bear in AK, albeit a more expensive option.
IMO, it is a DG animal with the same risk/reward but in a very different setting.
Some say that a .30 caliber magnum or even a 30-06 will get the job done.
I've asked more than a few professional guides and they recommend 338 and above.
A quick handling 416RIGBY would not be out of the question by any means.

Lastly, I will say that Brownies offer a truly wild hunt...not a farm hunt.
From what I have researched, many Bison hunts are not free roaming.
Not sure what your expectations are, but you should be aware.

The guy I hunt deer with took a brown bear and two blacktail deer three years ago. He used a .300 Win mag with 200 gr Swifts. He’s in great shape but said that was the toughest hunt he’s ever been on and that includes a goat hunt.

 

[BeeMaa]

Yes, I've been to AK 3 times and only ever got a shot at a black bear. The problem with those kind of hunts is, they want full payment no matter if you get a shot or not.

Very true.
You don't see a lot of unsuccessful Brown Bear hunts on YouTube.
There are several outfitters in the lower 48 who want full payment for Elk.
Even if you never have an opportunity to take a shot!!!

I get it, everyone needs to stay in business, but give me a break.
Full price for not having an opportunity to shoot is not how you get repeat customers.

This is one of the major reasons we prefer Africa.
The abundance of game and being able to trade out animals is really great.

Good luck with your Bison research and let us know how it goes.

 

[TOBY458]

Very true.
You don't see a lot of unsuccessful Brown Bear hunts on YouTube.
There are several outfitters in the lower 48 who want full payment for Elk.
Even if you never have an opportunity to take a shot!!!

I get it, everyone needs to stay in business, but give me a break.
Full price for not having an opportunity to shoot is not how you get repeat customers.

This is one of the major reasons we prefer Africa.
The abundance of game and being able to trade out animals is really great.

Good luck with your Bison research and let us know how it goes.

I suspect there are a lot of unsuccessful brown bear hunts that never surface on YouTube. And for the price you would pay for a good brown bear hunt, you could shoot a Cape Buffalo and a full bag of PG.

 

[JimP]

However it doesn't matter how many plains game or cape buffalo you shoot it still isn't a brown bear.

I don't go hunting just to say that I went hunting, I go with the intended purpose of shooting the animal that I am after. And while a African hunt is a lot cheaper it still isn't a brown bear hunt and you really can't compare the two, except to say that they are both hunting trips.

As for outfitters wanting full payment, why not? They put in their time and energy along with their horses, trucks, ATV's or whatever else that you used on the hunt, so why shouldn't they get full payment. A lot depends on the person that is the client of the outfitter. They show up out of shape, can't hit the broadside of a barn with their brand new rifle, and can't see the animals that the guide points out for them so they go home empty handed.

I've been on unsuccessful and successful hunts and never expected to have to get a refund of any of what I paid for the unsuccessful ones. Most of the time the outfitter will give me a discount on a return hunt but it isn't expected.

It's the old saying "if you eat the steak you pay for the steak"

 

[1dirthawker]

However it doesn't matter how many plains game or cape buffalo you shoot it still isn't a brown bear.

I don't go hunting just to say that I went hunting, I go with the intended purpose of shooting the animal that I am after. And while a African hunt is a lot cheaper it still isn't a brown bear hunt and you really can't compare the two, except to say that they are both hunting trips.

JimP,
you are right, a cape buffalo hunt is still not a brown bear hunt.

I get it, everyone needs to stay in business, but give me a break.
Full price for not having an opportunity to shoot is not how you get repeat customers.

This is one of the major reasons we prefer Africa.
The abundance of game and being able to trade out animals is really great.

BeeMaa,
the truth is, hunting brown bears is generally very different than hunting Africa. While hunting Africa, you will see zebra, kudu, gemsbok, impala, etc, etc, all day long when hunting a buff and can choose to shoot any of them and still have the opportunity to shoot a buffalo.

hunting in brown bear country is usually VERY remote, expensive to get there, very limited season so demand is high and therefore it is not an inexpensive hunt. Much of the brown bear hunting is a solo activity, meaning there are not other game to hunt due to the seasons do not overlap AND there is not the huge amount of game animals in the area like Africa has.

also, most brown bear hunting requires limited activity so you do not "stink up" a hunting area, if a large boar brown bear smells you, it is off into the brush and a walk over the mountain for them. Or they might go nocturnal, etc.

also, you cannot track a brown bear like one does a lion or buffalo. (although i would like to see a African bushman try, they might be able to) the bears live in incredibly dense cover, alders, brush and there would be very little likelihood of ever seeing one if you were actually able to trail it.

brown bears live in some of the toughest hunting country there is and there are not a lot of them compared to Africa plains game.

lastly the cost. because of the remoteness, (and this is true of hunting bongo or lord derby eland, etc) there is always a cost to get there, have a camp and support staff, travel when hunting etc and it is in america, not Africa where stuff costs quite a lot more.

I have hunted 10 days and only saw one shooter bear, right on the edge of dark, too far away to shoot (545 yards) and although we waited until true darkness, never saw the bear again. I worked hard for that client, saw lots of bears (sows with cubs) but due to the number of fish available the big bears were able to sit in the brush and fish only at night. very frustrating because we would see huge tracks on the beach the next morning, but never see the bear. was not my fault that the client did not get a bear and he was a great guy and a good sport about it. he returned the next season and shot a 9+ foot boar.

hunting brown bear is different than a lot of other hunting. always interesting to be sure.

 

[BeeMaa]

JimP,
you are right, a cape buffalo hunt is still not a brown bear hunt.



BeeMaa,
the truth is, hunting brown bears is generally very different than hunting Africa. While hunting Africa, you will see zebra, kudu, gemsbok, impala, etc, etc, all day long when hunting a buff and can choose to shoot any of them and still have the opportunity to shoot a buffalo.

hunting in brown bear country is usually VERY remote, expensive to get there, very limited season so demand is high and therefore it is not an inexpensive hunt. Much of the brown bear hunting is a solo activity, meaning there are not other game to hunt due to the seasons do not overlap AND there is not the huge amount of game animals in the area like Africa has.

also, most brown bear hunting requires limited activity so you do not "stink up" a hunting area, if a large boar brown bear smells you, it is off into the brush and a walk over the mountain for them. Or they might go nocturnal, etc.

also, you cannot track a brown bear like one does a lion or buffalo. (although i would like to see a African bushman try, they might be able to) the bears live in incredibly dense cover, alders, brush and there would be very little likelihood of ever seeing one if you were actually able to trail it.

brown bears live in some of the toughest hunting country there is and there are not a lot of them compared to Africa plains game.

lastly the cost. because of the remoteness, (and this is true of hunting bongo or lord derby eland, etc) there is always a cost to get there, have a camp and support staff, travel when hunting etc and it is in america, not Africa where stuff costs quite a lot more.

I have hunted 10 days and only saw one shooter bear, right on the edge of dark, too far away to shoot (545 yards) and although we waited until true darkness, never saw the bear again. I worked hard for that client, saw lots of bears (sows with cubs) but due to the number of fish available the big bears were able to sit in the brush and fish only at night. very frustrating because we would see huge tracks on the beach the next morning, but never see the bear. was not my fault that the client did not get a bear and he was a great guy and a good sport about it. he returned the next season and shot a 9+ foot boar.

hunting brown bear is different than a lot of other hunting. always interesting to be sure.

I get it, truly I do.
Professional guides and outfitters deserve the money and that is not in question.
There is no doubt that they put in the work on the hunt.
And that the hunter should be as capable of performing on the hunt as well.

My point is exactly your point...Africa is not Alaska (or vise versa).
Alaska is hungry country and also the permit process is much different.
That is probably why a Brown Bear trophy is so coveted.
It's not an easy (or inexpensive) process.
My hat is off to those that have them, and those who keep hunting.

I'm simply too much of a wimp for high country hard hunting.
The wife and I just prefer a little slower pace, which is why Africa is a better fit for us.

We all have expectations of a hunt.
A very real one is coming away without the desired trophy.
It can happen on any hunt, even in Africa.
The best any of us can do is to keep a positive attitude regardless.
No one wants to hunt with a downer.

 

[JLF]

As I sit here pondering my next move. I keep going back to Africa and Australia in my mind, over and over again. However, as you know, 2020 is off the table for us Africa and Australia bound seekers of adventure. So I feel I must search for a replacement of sorts. Something that requires, or at least warrants a large hunk of lead, in 40 caliber or larger. In my mind, the only thing in the USA that fits that bill is the great beast of the western prairie. The American Bison.
I've been planning to hunt Bison for quite some time now. However, I'm not enamored with the way they are hunted in most cases. You see, I have no interest in galloping across the plains on horseback and laying a Sharps 50/70 across the saddle and taking aim. I have other plans. Plans that would have the Bison lurking in the timber. Just waiting for a well made stalk, and an even more well placed bullet. A 416 Caliber bullet to be exact. What better animal could one choose to break in a new DG rifle? Sure, the Bison is no Cape Buffalo in attitude, but in body size, no one could argue against a large bore rifle. And yes, I know a 45/70 will do, but why not use a rifle that will someday be used on a Buffalo or Elephant? After all, isn't that what we all wish we were hunting?
Now that that BS is out of the way, who knows of a good heavy timber hunt for Bison? I have spoken to one guy out in ND, and he gets some really huge bulls. So I'm kind of wanting some input to determine if his prices are fair. Any input is greatly appreciated.

You have a beautiful rifle, in a great caliber ... use it for the bison. Do not hesitate, enjoy your rifle and much more of the hunt.

 

[cajunchefray]

As I sit here pondering my next move. I keep going back to Africa and Australia in my mind, over and over again. However, as you know, 2020 is off the table for us Africa and Australia bound seekers of adventure. So I feel I must search for a replacement of sorts. Something that requires, or at least warrants a large hunk of lead, in 40 caliber or larger. In my mind, the only thing in the USA that fits that bill is the great beast of the western prairie. The American Bison.
I've been planning to hunt Bison for quite some time now. However, I'm not enamored with the way they are hunted in most cases. You see, I have no interest in galloping across the plains on horseback and laying a Sharps 50/70 across the saddle and taking aim. I have other plans. Plans that would have the Bison lurking in the timber. Just waiting for a well made stalk, and an even more well placed bullet. A 416 Caliber bullet to be exact. What better animal could one choose to break in a new DG rifle? Sure, the Bison is no Cape Buffalo in attitude, but in body size, no one could argue against a large bore rifle. And yes, I know a 45/70 will do, but why not use a rifle that will someday be used on a Buffalo or Elephant? After all, isn't that what we all wish we were hunting?
Now that that BS is out of the way, who knows of a good heavy timber hunt for Bison? I have spoken to one guy out in ND, and he gets some really huge bulls. So I'm kind of wanting some input to determine if his prices are fair. Any input is greatly appreciated.

As I sit here pondering my next move. I keep going back to Africa and Australia in my mind, over and over again. However, as you know, 2020 is off the table for us Africa and Australia bound seekers of adventure. So I feel I must search for a replacement of sorts. Something that requires, or at least warrants a large hunk of lead, in 40 caliber or larger. In my mind, the only thing in the USA that fits that bill is the great beast of the western prairie. The American Bison.
I've been planning to hunt Bison for quite some time now. However, I'm not enamored with the way they are hunted in most cases. You see, I have no interest in galloping across the plains on horseback and laying a Sharps 50/70 across the saddle and taking aim. I have other plans. Plans that would have the Bison lurking in the timber. Just waiting for a well made stalk, and an even more well placed bullet. A 416 Caliber bullet to be exact. What better animal could one choose to break in a new DG rifle? Sure, the Bison is no Cape Buffalo in attitude, but in body size, no one could argue against a large bore rifle. And yes, I know a 45/70 will do, but why not use a rifle that will someday be used on a Buffalo or Elephant? After all, isn't that what we all wish we were hunting?
Now that that BS is out of the way, who knows of a good heavy timber hunt for Bison? I have spoken to one guy out in ND, and he gets some really huge bulls. So I'm kind of wanting some input to determine if his prices are fair. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Hello Toby 458

I follow your posts as I think you are as much a "rifle looney " as me, but you always buy and sell more interesting stuff.

The idea of of true fair case Bison hunt is a great idea! I read of a woods hunt for Timber Bison a few years ago in Rifle, or Successful Hunter magazine and it got my heart racing.

I'm still looking too for the right fair chase hunt for Bison in the US.
As a chef, I absolutely love Bison and cooking it.

My dream is to take one with my Ruger 450/400 Nitro loaded with Woodleigh 400 gr softs with a peep sight.

Up close and personal.


Good Luck with your search and let us know what you find.

You have a beautiful rifle, in a great caliber ... use it for the bison. Do not hesitate, enjoy your rifle and much more of the hunt.

 

[JimP]

Utah has two different free roaming bison herds that you can draw a tag for. One is in the Henry Mountains down by Lake Powell and the other is in the Book Cliffs north of I-70 and west of the Colorado boarder.

But if you really would like to hunt a free roaming one right now without waiting for a draw, Utah this year is offering a over the counter bison tag for the Wildhorse Bench bison herd. This herd consist of bison that have wandered off of the Ute Indian Reservation and crossed the Green River. This area is very remote and rugged. One area is the Range Creek Canyon and the other is Nine Mile Canyon. Access is very tough but there are those who are working on doing it.

 

[CAustin]

As I sit here pondering my next move. I keep going back to Africa and Australia in my mind, over and over again. However, as you know, 2020 is off the table for us Africa and Australia bound seekers of adventure. So I feel I must search for a replacement of sorts. Something that requires, or at least warrants a large hunk of lead, in 40 caliber or larger. In my mind, the only thing in the USA that fits that bill is the great beast of the western prairie. The American Bison.
I've been planning to hunt Bison for quite some time now. However, I'm not enamored with the way they are hunted in most cases. You see, I have no interest in galloping across the plains on horseback and laying a Sharps 50/70 across the saddle and taking aim. I have other plans. Plans that would have the Bison lurking in the timber. Just waiting for a well made stalk, and an even more well placed bullet. A 416 Caliber bullet to be exact. What better animal could one choose to break in a new DG rifle? Sure, the Bison is no Cape Buffalo in attitude, but in body size, no one could argue against a large bore rifle. And yes, I know a 45/70 will do, but why not use a rifle that will someday be used on a Buffalo or Elephant? After all, isn't that what we all wish we were hunting?
Now that that BS is out of the way, who knows of a good heavy timber hunt for Bison? I have spoken to one guy out in ND, and he gets some really huge bulls. So I'm kind of wanting some input to determine if his prices are fair. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Toby the American Bison requires a 404J especially for those super trophy bulls. Ha!

 

[Foxi]

It's the old saying "if you eat the steak you pay for the steak"

but then I have the meat in front of me on the plate and I can still decide if I really eat it.
A significant difference.

 

[JimP]

But do you really expect for a outfitter to only charge you half price after you have been there for a week or more? Eating the food that they provided, burning their gas to get you around and then having to pay for the guide that was with you from well before sunrise to well after sunset?

As has been mentioned, the rest of the world isn't Africa where most of the hunts are on game farms where you see a dozen different animals and you shoot what you can afford before you head back to the lodge, a hot shower, five course meal, and a couple glasses of 30 year old Scotch.

 

[TOBY458]

But do you really expect for a outfitter to only charge you half price after you have been there for a week or more? Eating the food that they provided, burning their gas to get you around and then having to pay for the guide that was with you from well before sunrise to well after sunset?

As has been mentioned, the rest of the world isn't Africa where most of the hunts are on game farms where you see a dozen different animals and you shoot what you can afford before you head back to the lodge, a hot shower, five course meal, and a couple glasses of 30 year old Scotch.

I can see your point. However, my point is, if you pay 100% up front, what's the incentive for the outfitter to produce a shot opportunity? It then becomes strictly a matter of integrity on the outfitter's part to give you his best effort. I also realize that many clients will show up unprepared for the tough conditions of many of these types of hunts, so it's definitely not all on the outfitter to provide a shot opportunity. But the way I see it, if a Brown Bear hunt costs $18K, and you end up sleeping in a tent while eating Mountain House freeze dried dinners, in no way do I feel like the outfitter has earned his $18K simply by guiding/feeding you for a week. Even if you add in the float plane fuel, I just don't see the value for the money being spent, if no shot opportunity is presented.
When I went to AK in 2006, the bear tags were $500.00. Not sure what they run now. So the tag is not a huge part of the expense.
With that said, I would still like to one day shoot a big browny. Not sure I ever will at this point. In all reality, I'm not sure how it gets much better than shooting a Cape Buffalo! There's just something about those big brutes that gets to me.
I guess in the end, that 30 year old Scotch sounds pretty good right about now.

 

[BnC 04]

Ran into a well known outfitter in the Alaskan bush while hunting browns. He had a client flying into the same area I was hunting in the next few days if I recall correctly and essentially wanted me to leave the drainage. Had a good discussion with him and his saying has stuck with me ever sense. Can't remember the exact words to my question but boiled down to the reason why brown or moose hunts have become so expensive. His reply, "we keep charging and they keep paying so why not".
Can't argue with that as he is/was right. WE keep paying whatever the price is set at.
Crossed paths with the client an his guide while I was packing my brown out and visited a bit. He was amazed at the size of the big browns, really good guy. Passed on a few locations of bears I spotted and split ways.
That saying is my reminder of the direction NA hunts are headed in. My opinion of course.